Problems with NA Team up...

[Endo]

That last quote ( I am not going to quote your quote) is a good defense on why you should try to work things out as a group, and not as individuals. Though this in fact is just a game, no questions. If it were not and FFXI had a direct reflection on your life, then I would be making millions right now with silk cloth IN REAL LIFE!!!!111!!. To state, and then argue that FFXI (I will refrain for now from calling it a game) is indeed more then just a game, is in a sense, a warped vision of real life. If you get hit by a car and die, there is no homepoint. In all honesty those that say that this is more then just a game, and actually have a belief that, (and noone is arguing that you did not put in time on this character and how much it means) the time and work put into a character is worth more then human decision making (whether error or not), need to step away from the keyboard.

With that said though, this is a MMO for a reason. It is not single player and these games are designed for, "The more people you have participating towards the same goal, the more will be accomplished by everyone." So in essence the more people you have working together no matter how trivial the matter may be, the more everyone will benefit, just because of game mechanics. Both sides have decent enough arguments to sway people to see their points, and neither is wrong (this coming from a neutral party). So if UDF and SB want to team up, and help each other out, then what are you REALLY going to do? Make silly posts pointing out their shortfalls? Make posts about how this or that would work?

Although a good idea in theory, the /random is going to be really hard to implement now unless every single ls agree's. In all honesty that /random rule is not in my TOS and those are the only rules I agreed too when I decided to pay my monthly feee's, so there is not much you can really do about that except those things mentioned above. It is a good idea and would probably benifit more people if everyone followed these set rules, but you will never be able to force them onto others.

[NynJa]

You guys are missing the point. If it would have helped you with the kill or not - you still are recieving outside linkshell help.

Is this teaming up?

If yes, then don't raise/heal/anything and expect to get to random.

If no, then all the discussion doesn't matter.

Now so far the only people going "THIS IS BS OMG" are UDF and SB, where as all other people from dif Linkshells are saying you two are giving eachother an unfair advantage.

Actually, if some people want to team up, go ahead. If they can work out a system between drops, power to them.

What actually annoyed me was reading that those LS's who team up actually /random against each other, essentially giving them 2 /randoms where every other LS gets 1.

[Orfeo]

Nynja you are interpreting(sp?) this wrong -_-

We (SB) aren't teamed up with UDF for kings or whatever. We aren't considered a single linkshell, we each bring seperate groups of people to kill whatever it is we wish to kill.

Apparently though, raising somebody=team up.

[Endo]

If it's no big deal, then just don't do it.

This guy won the thread, you can all stop posting

FOR REITERATION

Fuck You Bitch - Reiterate that. Matter of fact I will research some forum links that concern your server for you to go play forum nazi in. Until I find those stay the hell out of bahamut server discussions. Then again you can always get a world pass and dick ride while on the same server. All the ls will be glad to give you 1 week of free dick riding, then we will rotate you like the whore you are.

Oh you know this is a grand idea, how about we use the /random routine? UDF, FF, SB, BG, FI, RP, POS, COB, Hokuten, Cake, toy soldiers, knights, Riskbreaker {disclaimer: If I forgot your ls you know it aint personal, I had nothing but great relations with all of you (not the clinton type relations either) its just I am at work so trying to hurry this post}. Whoever rolls highest gets this guy a worldpass so he can finally be part of bahamut and gets him for one week, then you can rotate. The only thing I wonder is if UDF and SB both /random, and UDF lets this Demo guy dickride SB are they both allowed to random against each other again? Discuss, or Demo can stfu either or is fine

(PS sorry guys for being so vulger)

Edited to include ls that i forgot, so see Demo we cant WAIT for you to get to bahamut 8)

[NotSmash]

I believe it is perfectly fine to team up!

[NynJa]

Nynja you are interpreting(sp?) this wrong -_-

We (SB) aren't teamed up with UDF for kings or whatever. We aren't considered a single linkshell, we each bring seperate groups of people to kill whatever it is we wish to kill.

Apparently though, raising somebody=team up.

Raise1 is 150mp, and takes 8 seconds to cast ?? In 8 seconds I think I can rest up about 100 or so mp. So that essentially saves someone 250 mp. Durring these 8 seconds, that person casting raise is also out of comission, unable to do anything else.

Even if it may not turn the tide, it is definately helping.

[Samis]

After all is said and done, after 8 pages, the only thing anyone gives a SHIT about is whether or not the people who are *Teaming up, however it is defined later, after another 8 pages* are getting 2 /randoms, because then THAT affects THEM. With the new claim system NA's now are encountering these problems for the first time...

Have the ls leaders ask the other ls leaders IF they will team up BEFORE HAND, when the /randoming is beginning, and have them recieve one /random for both. If the two ls's teaming up get claim then it doesnt matter. they can do whatever they want to take it down... bring in another alliance x2 if they want... but those others who cam in to help forfiet random spots also.

If they recieve two /randoms and they still team up... well then there is no working system and an unclaimed monster is an unclaimed monster is an unclaimed monster is an unclaimed monster & All hell breaks loose. lets hope that doesnt happen..because the /random system won't work unless everyone follows it. thankfully bahamut has some people who understand respect, but unfortunetly just don't have any guidlines to follow.

the grey area of what constitues helping: You can't have a grey area. either not one single cure goes off, or not one raise goes out from an outside alliance, or not one ability is used for another ls from another ls. If someone does then it should cost their ls their /random spot. because you can't pick hairs about what is right and wrong. its all or nothing. and if some dumbas blows it for your LS...well that should be the equivalent of calling for help...you just don't do it. it should be the ls's fault or the ls leaders fault for not making all members aware of what is or is not accepted, and you come back another day. otherwise you have 8 pages of "NOOO, what I THINK is right" comes out about what IS and IS NOT helping+ the added drama.

I am neutral on who did what, don't care either, more power to the powerful bla bla bla. i would just like to see some order come quickly to the new NA ass kicking of HNM being handed out. i didnt write this to be flamed or flame anyone, or to start/end drama. just hopefully help to set up some form to the new HNM's we all have to play with^^

discuss?

P.S. "Sky rockets in flight" reminds me of goodwill hunting when he sings to that doctor lol.

[Orfeo]

the only thing anyone gives a SHIT about is whether or not the people who are *Teaming up, however it is defined later, after another 8 pages* are getting 2 /randoms, because then THAT affects THEM. With the new claim system NA's now are encountering these problems for the first time...

You're shitting me right?

[Samis]

if you read my post then you've probably read everyone else's. i read 8 pages of writing before i wrote that and its seems pretty obvious people got angry over outside help and the fact that the outside help got a /random.... did i miss something orfeo?

the only thing about what you guoted me on is that its not THE ABSOLUTE FIRST TIME an NA has claimed on these mobs. but on a larger scale, now all the NA linkshells are mixed in the frey, and new tweaks and issues are coming up, like the raise issue. imjust trying to help, so if you actually have something to say, and a legit reason to say it,...... please say it. dont just post your smart ass remark. post something with something to it, and maybe we can all try to figure something out to make bahamut HNM work well with all the new NA ls's fighting for them.

but yea yea you have your drama of whatever went on, but i dont give a shit about that, but rather the FF community as a whole ok? but it is kinda funny your position in this whole matter and what you postd back. go figure....thanks for being constructive orfeo.

[NynJa]

the only thing anyone gives a SHIT about is whether or not the people who are *Teaming up, however it is defined later, after another 8 pages* are getting 2 /randoms, because then THAT affects THEM. With the new claim system NA's now are encountering these problems for the first time...

You're shitting me right?

For whatever reason, you fail to grasp why some people find your team up LS to be assholish, so I will attempt to explain it.


There are 6 linkshells in the aery. They are named:
A, B, C, D, E, SUPERJPHNMCLAIMBOT.

Fafnir spawns, and SUPERJPHNMCLAIMBOT claims it with 3 people. These idiots dont read the patch notes, and 50 minutes later its at 90%. Linkshells A, B, C, D and E decide random over the imminent wipe. However, linkshells A and D are in cahoots, and help each other whenever possible. They, of course, are two seperate linkshells.


Now which linkshell has the best chance to win the random ??
A - 2 entries
B - 1 entry
C - 1 entry
D - 2 entries
E - 1 entry

By common logic, linkshells A and D, who work together but act as seperate linkshells, have the best chance to win the random.





Hopefully by now you've understood why people are annoyed

[Samis]

i just wanted to make something clear... when i say the only thing people care about bla bla bla... because THAT affect THEM..

Them= outside alliances waiting to fight. wasnt sure if you knew that orfeo judging by your post.

[Cantide]

This is why /random'ing for HNMs is retarded.

[Hirronimus]

lol all the cybering got "ganked". We gotz werked son. A man can't even highjack a thread these days, what's world coming to?

[Elcura]

This is why /random'ing for HNMs is retarded, spamming voke, MPK and clusterfucks are much better.

[Cantide]

This is why /random'ing for HNMs is retarded, spamming voke, MPK and clusterfucks are much better.

Damn straight it is. Much more exciting to see things get sorted out in game than look at 10 page long cry fests because some guy got to random twice.

[Elcura]

Better this then 10 topics on how [PC or LS] stole [HNM] from [LS]...

[Septimus]

Better this then 10 topics on how [PC or LS] stole [HNM] from [LS]...

No its not. Then people can really complain about people complaining.

[Essifen]

Hi, I registered for your forums so that I could rekindle this juicy flame thread (because I can't log into the game and bore my linkshell with this speech).

I’m surprised that no one has chosen to comment on the way in which this issue was initially framed by Judah. He rather cleverly put forth the notion that Undefeatable and Sapphire Blade were engaged in some illicit attempt to cheat their way past everyone else without actually having to stick his neck out and make a positive claim. It’s a somewhat milder form of “have you stopped beating your wife?” The person who asks such a question clearly has the best of it, because the accusation is such that not responding would make you look guilty, and a simple answer won’t be enough to vindicate you. You would feel the need to make a convincing argument to demonstrate that you were never beating your wife. Meanwhile, the other person can sit back and poke holes in your argument, because the burden of proof is on you. But the burden of proof should be, of course, on the people who want to make such accusations, and I think the people trying to show that no team-up occurred were admitting too much by allowing themselves to be baited.

Lots of people, like NynJa, who writes (paraphrased)

I am retarded.

are proceding from the assumption that the actions imply a team-up, when that claim has yet to be made out. If you want to argue that casting healing magic implies collusion, you can attack it from three angles, as I see it: the consequences of the action, the intentions behind the action, and the action in itself.

By all accounts, the raises had no meaningful effect on the outcome of either battle, which is to say that the win/loss outcome was not affected. I think that only the retarded are arguing the issue from this angle.

I think that some people want to say that the intentions were wrong here, that UDF intended to support SB if they got in trouble, that SB intended to save UDF if they were about to wipe, etc. But, again, it’s assumed that they, like any others, would abide by the well-known rules, since they had already participated in the /random system. The burden of proof is on the accusers to show that the intentions were wrong, and I don’t see how they can do this. Casting three spells simply does not imply the intention to continue and cast four spells.

The only substantial idea here is that the act in itself is wrong because it breaks a rule.

Just feel that if the linkshell feels they can take it or not makes no difference. If you heal or raise anyone you are making it unfair for the people behind them in random - if you think it will make a difference or not to the fight.

the simplest thing to do is keep it simple, keep it black and white. everything is not okay so there is zero confusion.

Sendoh is right though, it's very unfair for other LS who don't recieve help (wanted or not, more often not).

Healing magic, wanted or not, constitutes a team-up on the part of both parties, regardless of the intentions, regardless of the consequences. Black and white. This seems fair enough, but I seem to remember hearing about some of the gilseller groups using pld/thf to steal NMs using Cure IV/Invincible/Flee (before the /blockaid patch, of course). If you want to say that casting any healing magic on the active linkshell constitutes collusion, then you pretty much have to admit that if you ever had a NM stolen like this then you were engaged in a shady back-alley team-up with gilsellers. Black and white.

[Onizuka]

For whatever reason, you fail to grasp why some people find your team up LS to be assholish, so I will attempt to explain it.


There are 6 linkshells in the aery. They are named:
A, B, C, D, E, SUPERJPHNMCLAIMBOT.

Fafnir spawns, and SUPERJPHNMCLAIMBOT claims it with 3 people. These idiots dont read the patch notes, and 50 minutes later its at 90%. Linkshells A, B, C, D and E decide random over the imminent wipe. However, linkshells A and D are in cahoots, and help each other whenever possible. They, of course, are two seperate linkshells.


Now which linkshell has the best chance to win the random ??
A - 2 entries
B - 1 entry
C - 1 entry
D - 2 entries
E - 1 entry

By common logic, linkshells A and D, who work together but act as seperate linkshells, have the best chance to win the random.





Hopefully by now you've understood why people are annoyed

Okay why do you keep talking? YOUR NOT FROM BAHAMUT! Seriously though you don't know SB or UDF, don't you have friends or atleast a linkshell on your server?

Nynja your stupid theory is well retorted.... even though D helps A or vice versa only 1 Ls gets the drops and what's more stupid is if you where on Bahamut you would know SB and UDF are in no way a team up Ls, they are 2 Ls's that have a good relationship but that's it if one wins a claim it doesn't matter to the other cause it wont affect them in any way. Your assuming SB and UDF are 1 Ls split into 2 and do everything together and/random separate and end up splitting drops between the 2 either way. Obviously that's not the situation and if you had enough sense to stay out of something you know nothing about you might not be so stupid

SB and UDF are friends they used to or still do(dunno) Dynamis together their used to helping each other out, seeing your friend dead and you being a whm what would you do? They didn't know you guys would jump down their fucking throats for a few raises... Im sure they know you guys will jump into a hissy fit if they do it again and will now make sure not to, even though they might want to help a friend out.

[Litoriceboi]

For whatever reason, you fail to grasp why some people find your team up LS to be assholish, so I will attempt to explain it.


There are 6 linkshells in the aery. They are named:
A, B, C, D, E, SUPERJPHNMCLAIMBOT.

Fafnir spawns, and SUPERJPHNMCLAIMBOT claims it with 3 people. These idiots dont read the patch notes, and 50 minutes later its at 90%. Linkshells A, B, C, D and E decide random over the imminent wipe. However, linkshells A and D are in cahoots, and help each other whenever possible. They, of course, are two seperate linkshells.


Now which linkshell has the best chance to win the random ??
A - 2 entries
B - 1 entry
C - 1 entry
D - 2 entries
E - 1 entry

By common logic, linkshells A and D, who work together but act as seperate linkshells, have the best chance to win the random.





Hopefully by now you've understood why people are annoyed

Okay why do you keep talking? YOUR NOT FROM BAHAMUT![/B/] Seriously though you don't know SB or UDF, don't you have friends or atleast a linkshell on your server?

Nynja your stupid theory is well retorted.... even though D helps A or vice versa only 1 Ls gets the drops and what's more stupid is if you where on Bahamut you would know SB and UDF are in no way a team up Ls, they are 2 Ls's that have a good relationship but that's it if one wins a claim it doesn't matter to the other cause it wont affect them in any way. Your assuming SB and UDF are 1 Ls split into 2 and do everything together and/random separate and end up splitting drops between the 2 either way. Obviously that's not the situation and if you had enough sense to stay out of something you know nothing about you might not be so stupid

SB and UDF are friends they used to or still do(dunno) Dynamis together their used to helping each other out, seeing your friend dead and you being a whm what would you do? They didn't know you guys would jump down their fucking throats for a few raises... Im sure they know you guys will jump into a hissy fit if they do it again and will now make sure not to, even though they might want to help a friend out.

Didn't you quit? If so you should stfu too. kthx