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  1. #1

    CFH on NMs -> Suggestion for SE

    I really think the ability to Call for Help on any NM is ridiculous, so I'm going to go on a campaign to get it removed from the game. For that I'll need a bit of help, so this message will be posted on just about every FF XI Forum I visit.

    Due to a recent CFH incident on KB (the 3rd out of our 5 claims as an LS, and the 1st time it was actually our fault), I've finally decided I've had enough of stupid CFH incidents. There are only 3 reasons I can think of to CFH on an NM, and I'll lay them out, with reasons why they're ridiculous, stupid, or useless enough reasons that the benefits of making it so NMs can't be CFHed far outway the loss.

    1. To piss people off (or more specifically, keep another LS from getting items). Perhaps a group of players MPKed you and stole your mob, and you only have 1 person left alive, so you CFH so they can't get anything out of it; or perhaps you just like making other players lives a living hell. All I can say is, in the first case it's better to steal it back (is revenge really a strong argument anyway?); and in the second gtfo, no one wants to play with you, so why should the game make it easier for you to piss people off?

    2. There are NMs that drop nothing, so it makes sense to CFH them to kill them more quickly. The only example of this I can think of at the moment is on the summons during Kirin; however these are certainly killable quickly enough with a single alliance. This point will be addressed further later on however.

    3. Sometimes you accidently aggro an NM, or pull an NM, that you are unable to kill. You can CFH and possibly get assistance to kill it. Or you can ally or invite other players to help you kill it; trust me, they will thank you for it, and be much less likely to simply watch you die.

    As far as I can see, the ability to Call for Help on NMs is pointless, and only happens through mistakes or to cause someone else grief. The benefits are that no one would be able to steal an NM and Call for Help on it, as commonly happens with gilsellers (or other unscrupulous players); there would be no more accidently Calling for Help, for example 3 hours into fighting Tiamat/Jormungand/Vrtra, or at the very end of fighting King Behemoth, where he dies on CFH and is unavailable for another week.
    Please, please, please suggest to SE that they remove this ability from the game; this would reduce the number of incidents occuring with NMs and HNMs that cost us all so much time and effort. If you want a slightly more player-friendly version, ask that only NMs that do NOT drop items can be CFHed; any other NMs cannot.

    Thank you in advance for any time and effort you may expend in this cause. If you have have any suggestions or arguments for or against this, feel free to post them.

    P.S. Suggestions can be sent to Square-Enix by logging onto POL, going to Service and Support -> E-mail to SE -> Comments and Suggestions.

  2. #2
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    I think if it con's "impossible to gauge" you shouldn't be able to CFH at all on it. Calling for help on Kirin summons is weak, gogo Chain 3 4tw. Pisses me off when he waits like 5 minutes to summon #4.

  3. #3
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    Agreed, ther's no point in cfh on the summons anyway unless you're zerging them with over an allience, they can be killed with 1 ally.

  4. #4

    I certainly agree with both of you. I hope that means you'll actually go send a suggestion to SE? ^^ I'm hoping a few thousand suggestions to this effect might get them to consider fixing it.

  5. #5

    it would be nice...but that would make the game better.
    so chances of it happening probably not great. But I'll pull for ya

  6. #6
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    Yeah I will submit it definately, because I think it's a really valid idea without a downside.

    If you pulled a mob that is "impossible to gauge", you're on your own pretty much. What should "impossible to gauge" mean anyways?

    Initially the reaction may be "well, now we have to change our strat on Kirin", however think about how much HNM strategies changed with the new time limits. Obviously SE isn't worried about making people think now (good for them). There is also a Kirin strat where you can still zerg the summons with an alliance without CFH if you have over 18, I'm sure alot of you can figure that one out.

  7. #7

    I would like to see CFH mode only on the 5 Main HNMs. Behe, KB, Fafnir, Nidhogg, Aspi. Fuck Adamantoise.

    The CFH Serkets, Simurghs, CCs are just too fun to watch.

    And if anything I think on the main HNMs instead of making taking off CFH. The CFH feature makes the HNM go yellow, kinda saying you are giving away the mob for some one else to take. Although this will lead to mass confusion seeing how the main HNMs still go unclaimed even though S/E said they fixed it. Also you could have a bitch in your LS who you pissed off earlier do this to get back at you. Usually though strong LSs don't have this happen.

  8. #8
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    You need to stop being so narrow minded, consider back during the first time someone saw Adaman for example. I bet they killed it NP as an Alliance, maybe a few problems with breath or whatnot. Now think about what they did when Aspid Popped. Do you think any one LS could have killed it back then or wanted to try multiple times dieing trying to figure out every little thing about him? Doubt it. I'm sure they allowed CFH on NM's for this reason, that when the Kings first popped, they probably were not killable by any one LS for a VERY long time. So it makes sense that they added CFH, so that a few LS could team up and take it down so they could get the NQ pops a few more times, especially back when people probably had NO idea on how to kill KB without kiting it.

  9. #9

    Perhaps. Has that happened on Tiamat/Jormungand/Vrtra however? I think the advantages of CFH not being available as a grief tactic outweigh not being able to CFH on Vrtra so you can get 100 people fighting him and perhaps win based on numbers alone.

  10. #10
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    I read your post on Garuda forum Amla. Ya, I agree that whenever PS and EDI goes to fight Tiamat, and it's my turn to SC and disband, I always get scared that the incredible lag might cause me to CFH.

    Also, I do understand that PS have been cfh'ed on KB by someone's mule/character, which is very unfortunate.

    I'll send a suggestion when I get back to my apt. from class.

  11. #11
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    I will also send this suggestion, as its been brought up in LS many times.

    Separatly, I still think its retarded that there are monsters that require more than 18 ppl to kill when they design the PT/Alliance system to only have 18 ppl max. I'm sure there are creative ppl somewhere that could create a better system to handle alliances and PTs than what we currently use... bonding 3 parties together to share claim is too simplistic, when they are releasing mobs that require 19-24ppl to fight. Although 18 could probably kill a wyrm / kirin, but you would need very specific job combinations.

  12. #12

    18 people against the wyrms isn't too bad, but they make it tough by having the adds. You don't really need to swap people into the main alliance at those fights, that's more just to give people a chance to participate and speed things up (1-2 hour fights rather than 3-4).

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maguspk
    You need to stop being so narrow minded, consider back during the first time someone saw Adaman for example. I bet they killed it NP as an Alliance, maybe a few problems with breath or whatnot. Now think about what they did when Aspid Popped. Do you think any one LS could have killed it back then or wanted to try multiple times dieing trying to figure out every little thing about him? Doubt it.
    Perhaps you should stop living in the past. Even if you only can have one alliance fighting a monster, outside assistance is still possible with healing etc and you can swap members who die or otherwise become unusable.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maguspk
    I'm sure they allowed CFH on NM's for this reason, that when the Kings first popped, they probably were not killable by any one LS for a VERY long time. So it makes sense that they added CFH, so that a few LS could team up and take it down so they could get the NQ pops a few more times, especially back when people probably had NO idea on how to kill KB without kiting it.
    I'm sure they didn't "add CFH" to these monsters. It's simply the fact that the game does not distinguish between the mobs. CFH works on everything and it's just disabled in certain zones (Dynamis, etc) since it serves no purpose.

  14. #14
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    Also, I'm not completely sure but.. When PS and EDI fought KV in altepa, there was a glitch in CFH that made KV go on CFH. In order to gain TP from surrounding mobs, a regular mob was CFH'ed. And while fighting that mob, the person that CFH'ed the mob was invited to the main alliance. I'm not sure if this was the reason; however, KV went CFH as well and there was no message saying that anybody CFH'ed at that time.

    Thus, everyone who had hate had to die or log off to de-cfh it. Afterwards, we were able to take it down.

    You might say "Why CFH on the regular mob in the first place? Why can't you just fight it as add alliance?" The problem is that when you are swapping in and out of alliances to SC on the NM, those players must wait until either there is a spot left in the add alliance or wait until the add alliance leader invites you. Those players that need an invite cannot fight the mob that the add alliance pulls. So to benefit those 'out-of-alliance' players, it must get CFH'ed.

    By taking away the option to CFH on NMs, I think we can get rid of such glitch and avoid unfortunate situations.

  15. #15

    Although I'm wary to consider my suggestion as a solution to that glitch, the fact is that SE hasn't been able to fix it, so I guess you can look at it as an added bonus.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soma
    Also, I'm not completely sure but.. When PS and EDI fought KV in altepa, there was a glitch in CFH that made KV go on CFH. In order to gain TP from surrounding mobs, a regular mob was CFH'ed. And while fighting that mob, the person that CFH'ed the mob was invited to the main alliance. I'm not sure if this was the reason; however, KV went CFH as well and there was no message saying that anybody CFH'ed at that time.
    This will happen and it's why most groups avoid inviting people to the main alliance in any situation until all CFH mobs are dead.

  17. #17

    I'm of the opinion that it's a glitch we shouldn't ignore like you obviously do.

    Edit: Alright, accepting it as a glitch rather than actively requesting SE do something about it.

  18. #18
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    I'm not ignoring it. I'm avoiding the glitch occurring until something changes.

    Edit:
    Why invite ppl to the main alliance if it's possible you will CFH the main mob? I, in no way, said to ignore it.

  19. #19
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    I still enjoy CFH'ing Gilseller NMs, I don't know about you guys.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heian
    I still enjoy CFH'ing Gilseller NMs, I don't know about you guys.
    And they enjoy cfh'ing on ours too. On asura we had a gilseller LS KS nidhogg(or was it fafnir?) & then cfh it.

    Also we had a problem in tiamat, there was a mule called "Mayami" that would follow our LS anywhere we went, and Call for help on our mob if it went yellow.

    We coulda lived without those.

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