Unicorn Harness receipe {Found it!}

[Raineer]

Ridill

ahhh, so elusive i didn't think of it. Thank you

[Nny]

Joyeuse aswell.

As far as Koenig Cuirass, Enmity isn't really needed for CoP wyrms if you use SMN as main source of DD (Which we do). I wouldn't mind having M.Body for CoP Wyrms as the 40 HP difference would help a lot. HP is really the most important stat for them, to insure that you're able to live through a fuck up (A missed-stun Firaga, Wing, double attack with one shadow up, ect.). I'd kill to be able to break 2k HP for tanking them (Currently sitting on ~1700 after food, could pretty easily get 200 more but I'm cheap and don't want to spend money for just one NM o: ).

[Okan]

Joyeuse aswell.

As far as Koenig Cuirass, Enmity isn't really needed for CoP wyrms if you use SMN as main source of DD (Which we do). I wouldn't mind having M.Body for CoP Wyrms as the 40 HP difference would help a lot. HP is really the most important stat for them, to insure that you're able to live through a fuck up (A missed-stun Firaga, Wing, double attack with one shadow up, ect.). I'd kill to be able to break 2k HP for tanking them (Currently sitting on ~1700 after food, could pretty easily get 200 more but I'm cheap and don't want to spend money for just one NM o: ).

I can understand this with Jorm, but Tiamat is easy. His Firaga never broke my Stoneskin (Meaning it's under 350). Jorm would always manage to do about 20 over.. Bleh

[Nny]

I meant Firaga because it strips all shadows, and if that's right after a :Ni cast during frenzy (So only :Ichi left), you're going to be getting clocked at ~700-900 damage crits at a very fast speed even with Elegy+Slow on.

Jorm isn't much to worry about though. He hits like a pussy (Though his air attacks/spells hurt a lot more), and even with Bloody Weapon up that's only taking 400-600 damage.

[Demetrio$]

editedlolz

[Okan]

I meant Firaga because it strips all shadows, and if that's right after a :Ni cast during frenzy (So only :Ichi left), you're going to be getting clocked at ~700-900 damage crits at a very fast speed even with Elegy+Slow on.

Jorm isn't much to worry about though. He hits like a pussy (Though his air attacks/spells hurt a lot more), and even with Bloody Weapon up that's only taking 400-600 damage.

Yeah, he does hit weaker, but it's his spells that are more annoying. I think Jorm is more of a pain because he uses AoE more often. I'm more of the preference of resting next to the PLDs instead of running back and forth between camps and what not. (I'm the WHM/SMN). So it's fairly annoying when he interupts my resting. Secondly, while Tiamat has weaker spells, they're slightly easier to stun.

[Lockecole]

In my opinion, no WAR should ever use Koenig Cuirass. AF1 Body has Enmity+8, HP+20, and VIT on it. Even for the big guys like Jorm/Vrtra/Tia, you need enmity to hold hate. For kited mobs, you need all enmity, so Koenig sucks there as well. For Fafnir/Nidhogg/Aspid, you want to do damage to keep hate. With WHM and/or BRD haste, you should have no problem with Utsu recasts. Go all damage, or all enmity, if you plan on tanking as WAR. Going all DEF/VIT won't do much for you, sicne WARs only have voke/warcry.

Lol @ HP Tanks. Seriously you underestimate the advantage of VIT/Def. Maybe Ive only seen too many PLDs tank Wyrms but seriously the more you get hit for is just gonna mean the more you have to be healed for, thus losing hate MUCH quicker to mages etc. Getting critted for 700-900 instead of 500-700 is huge. Not worth being an HP tank.

Yeah and for those who think A- Axe is good enough... I'm glad I'll be outdamaging you in XP PTs. Seriously even with Ridill alot of your damage is coming from your WS and your main hand. Put at LEAST +6 into axe to make it close to A+, otherwise you're still a gimp A-. I have +12 axe +6sword +5 from Suppa, and plan on probably getting Fortitude Torque. I feel that is THE best setup for Axe/Sword.

Axe is also out since often I'll go with Seiryu/Ridill or Ridill/Joyeuse instead of Maneater/Ridill, just depends on mob/situation.

Wow are you that bored in XP PTs to feel a need to gimp yourself that badly?

[Nny]

Yeah, he does hit weaker, but it's his spells that are more annoying. I think Jorm is more of a pain because he uses AoE more often. I'm more of the preference of resting next to the PLDs instead of running back and forth between camps and what not. (I'm the WHM/SMN). So it's fairly annoying when he interupts my resting. Secondly, while Tiamat has weaker spells, they're slightly easier to stun.

Oh I agree completely. Fuck ups do happen though, and a missed Firaga hurts a lot more because of the on comming attacks then a missed Blizzaga does.

Lol @ HP Tanks. Seriously you underestimate the advantage of VIT/Def. Maybe Ive only seen too many PLDs tank Wyrms but seriously the more you get hit for is just gonna mean the more you have to be healed for, thus losing hate MUCH quicker to mages etc. Getting critted for 700-900 instead of 500-700 is huge. Not worth being an HP tank.

Have you actually tanked CoP Wyrms? Serious question that I'm wondering, since you talk about watching PLDs tank them.

There's one thing you completely miss: HP equipment is on DEF equipment. Genbu's Kabuto, M.Body, Seiyru's Kote (Don't underestimate +15 AGI either, huge boost to shield, parrying, and evasion [Yes, evasion. Wyrms are very inaccurate]), Unicorn Pants, do I have to go on? And if you're actually trying to argue that a Soil Ring is better then a Bomb Queen Ring, then don't even bother responding again.

The only case where theres a DEF v.s. HP dilima is on feet, hume RSE2 (HP+60 DEF:9) v.s. Suzaku's Suneate (DEF:30), in which case yes I'll take the HP. That 21 DEF difference isn't going to do much.

Something else you fail to realize is that it ISN'T just about his normal attacks. DEF is going to do jack-shit when he's in the air where he's going to be hitting you for 250-280 damage, whereas HP gives you a huge buffer for your mages to work with and allow them to build up less hate. Not to mention DEF isn't going to save you when he follows those air attacks with a nice ~600 damage blast followed by a ~200 touchdown. Wing and Breath with bad formation is again where HP will help where DEF will do nothing.

Also, why even bother mentioning about losing hate when getting hit? Reducing the damage you take so that you lose less hate from the whole ~3ish times he hits you over the course of the fight is idiotic (And if he hits your blink tanks for more then that, they need to go back to Dunes and learn how to use Utsusemi), that's hardly going to make a difference in the amount of hate you have. If you're going to make an arguement about hate, then the only arguement there is is loading up on +Enmity since that will actually help. Which I've already gone over with. And anyway, the only job with an actual hate problem is BRD, which /shutdown takes care of.

The reason I get hit so hard isn't because of my lack of DEF, it's because I don't use an Earth Staff (Which would shave off 150-180 damage, reducing the amount I take similiar to those you posted). I'd much rather stick with Hrotti+Tatami Shield, both for the intimdiation factor and for the sheer power that a shield gives.

[removed broken link]
(With Stoneskin)

[removed broken link]
(Without)

I also don't use a Jelly Ring (Anoter 35-45 damage taken off), because I'm too lazy to macro it out when he's in the air. (:

[Mugmug]

I guess if you use all SMNs to DD HNMs, then there is no need to wear any enmity. My LS uses SC's + BLM bursts, as well as SMNs.

As for the Axe vs Sword merits, it's way overdone. No need to beat the dead horse. Test it out yourself. Ridill/Joyeuse is by far better, IMO. Once again, this is just my opionion, no need to start a flame war

[Okan]

Novel

You make a few good points.. If you're tanking PLD/NIN. We just like to use normal PLD/WAR and use WHM/SMN for Aerial Armor. The only time we had a hate issue was when it used the dispel and reset hate with that tank.

[Nny]

I was strictly talking about Warrior. I have no knowledge about Paladin and I never thought it was about PLD (Seeing as this topic was about WAR JSE body and it's useage).

[Lockecole]

And if you're actually trying to argue that a Soil Ring is better then a Bomb Queen Ring, then don't even bother responding again.

Wow... Nny I know you from KI forums, and I respect alot of your views on WAR cause you know your shit, but a BQ Ring on Tiamat? Why? If the ONLY thing you're apparently worried about is his breath damage, (with which barfira can possibly be resisted down to double digits) then why are you using something that will ENSURE you get your ass kicked by any missed stuns on Firaga, (as few as there should be) and any Inferno Blasts + Airborne Fireballs...

Do you realize what -75 Fire Resists does to you? Its TOTALLY not worth 75HP. Get a Bloodbead and if you use that already then use an enmity ring or something.

Also, why even bother mentioning about losing hate when getting hit? Reducing the damage you take so that you lose less hate from the whole ~3ish times he hits you over the course of the fight is idiotic (And if he hits your blink tanks for more then that, they need to go back to Dunes and learn how to use Utsusemi),

Im sure you know when tanking wyrms it has ALOT less to do with how good your Utsusemi stacking skills are and more-so how lucky/unlucky you get with AOEs (Firaga's I.Blasts) and how good of a job your backup mages keep Elegy/Slow up. Seriously if he gets a double attack off at the wrong time, it has NOTHING to do with your skill and everything to do with just being unlucky. Jorm is a little different since he doesnt double attack, but having unstunnable Blizzaga makes him just as bad.

I came off like a bitch last time, my bad, I just watch another LS in my server (Siren) use HP tanks out the ass, and they go through 6 tanks on Jorm, and rotate them as they all die within minutes. I guess it has to do with the skill of the tanks, and not so much the make-up of their equip.

[Razz]

Blizzaga isnt unstunnable, just really gay to stun with the fast cast and lag :/

[Lockecole]

Blizzaga isnt unstunnable, just really gay to stun with the fast cast and lag :/

Well I meant that it's practically unstunnable. Technically any TP Move is stunnable as long as the mob itself is, but yes its practically instantaneous as I think he's a DRK/RDM of somesort, cause he casts shit FAST. I also think its a TP Move for Jorm, and a spell for Tiamat, but I may be incorrect.

[Mugmug]

For the record:

Tiamat's aerial attacks, are not fired based. The only attacks which are fire based, are Firaga, to my knowledge. His breath attack does not register as fire based, from my experiences. I may be wrong, but i have tested it a lot, and have never seen my damage increase with Bomb Queen Ring on.

When Tia is in the air, take BQ off, then put it on. You will take the exact same damage. Hrotti does not lower his aerial damage either i thought it would register as a breath attack, but it doesn't.

using Bomb Queen on Tiamat is a good option, if your BLMs can keep stun up. It is very easy to stun his Firagas.

[Dethsbane]

Yeah you can definitely stun his Firagas.

[Raineer]

For the record:

Tiamat's aerial attacks, are not fired based. The only attacks which are fire based, are Firaga, to my knowledge. His breath attack does not register as fire based, from my experiences. I may be wrong, but i have tested it a lot, and have never seen my damage increase with Bomb Queen Ring on.

When Tia is in the air, take BQ off, then put it on. You will take the exact same damage. Hrotti does not lower his aerial damage either i thought it would register as a breath attack, but it doesn't.

using Bomb Queen on Tiamat is a good option, if your BLMs can keep stun up. It is very easy to stun his Firagas.

Inferno Blast would destroy you with a BQ Ring, it is extremely difficult to stun and does a ton of damage. Barfire very much affects it.

If you want to say breath isn't fire-based..meh ok I'll buy that. Doesn't make sense but alot of the game doesn't. I'm not a tank so IDK. If you are standing in the right spot only the main tank will get hit and for only like 200.

Firaga3 is weak as hell and very stunnable.

[Nikko]

if you want to change the base dmg you take by a few numbers eitherway, change your int stat or magic dmg% stat.

resist number just ups your chances of the attack doing 1/2 1/4 or 1/8th dmg, same as how a BLM gets resists. The reason BQ ring is fine for Tiamat is that since he is such a high level, its unlikely that you will resist his attacks even with high fire resist stat.

An example is, normal air atks do 300dmg each, 10/10 times with BQ ring on. With BQ ring off they do 300dmg each, 9/10 times and 150dmg, 1/10 times. (made up numbers and percentages)

[Okan]

Blizzaga isnt unstunnable, just really gay to stun with the fast cast and lag :/

Well I meant that it's practically unstunnable. Technically any TP Move is stunnable as long as the mob itself is, but yes its practically instantaneous as I think he's a DRK/RDM of somesort, cause he casts shit FAST. I also think its a TP Move for Jorm, and a spell for Tiamat, but I may be incorrect.

Use a RDM/DRK and try to have him solely focus on stunning it.

[Nny]

What Nikko said. :wink:

As far as Jorm, we have a DRK/WHM who's sole purpose is stunning, and he gets almost every single Blizzaga. He has stunning down to a science and can stun a good portion of TP moves aswell (I don't know about other DDs since that gives him more TP then using SMNs, but with SMNs CoP wyrms have a pattern for it).