Unicorn Harness receipe {Found it!}

[Lockecole]

Whats the point of having 75 extra HP though? even if one of those 10 breaths got resisted.. wouldnt it make it worth it then? That's what I dont get from HP builds, where if one resist isnt huge for you, then why is 75HP? You do realize that 75HP will only help you if you are brought below 75 HP.. and technically if you didnt use the BQ Ring, then you would never have been brought down that low.

HP Build plays to its weakness, by saying "Oh shit I get hit hard so I HAVE to have alot of HP." When in reality by using a more correct build, you wouldnt have to worry about taking 900 from MS.

Yeah you can definitely stun his Firagas.

Everyone knows that, the debate was wether or not you can stun Jorm's Blizzaga III. I believe Jorms move is a TP move, and an instacast therefore _practically_ unstunnable. In that the time from when you see it and the time you'd get the spell off, he would have casted. Technically if you randomly stunned and happened to get lucky, yes you could stun it.
*EDIT:* My stun team must suck then... Ill talk to my LS about this, as Im not a stunner, so I assumed they couldnt be stunned. Guess Imma have to whip my RDM/DRKs into shape.

Tiamat on the other hand I believe it is a spell, and it is understood you have at LEAST 2 people on a stun team, where their sole jobs are stunning Firaga III. It makes the fight ALOT easier.

Tiamat's aerial attacks, are not fired based. The only attacks which are fire based, are Firaga, to my knowledge. His breath attack does not register as fire based, from my experiences. I may be wrong, but i have tested it a lot, and have never seen my damage increase with Bomb Queen Ring on.

Ummm they ARE magic based... equip Merman Earrings/Rings and they reduce the damage done by that EXACT %. Not magic huh? If something is magic based it HAS to be based on an element. (If it has to be an element *DING* which element would that be?) Nikko is correct though, that it is VERY hard to resist his Aerial Attacks, since he is such a high lvl. Not entirely impossible with some fire-resist equip (Suzaku's Sune-ate + WAR AF1 Body, and NOT BQ Ring.)

[Nny]

Whats the point of having 75 extra HP though? even if one of those 10 breaths got resisted.. wouldnt it make it worth it then? That's what I dont get from HP builds, where if one resist isnt huge for you, then why is 75HP? You do realize that 75HP will only help you if you are brought below 75 HP.. and technically if you didnt use the BQ Ring, then you would never have been brought down that low.

I've tried a full fire resist build. Sunate, Fire Carol, AF1 Body, Barfira...the resist rate isn't worth it. He's a level 90+ mob, the chances of resisting are very slim. -75 Fire hardly affects resist rate at all.

[Raineer]

*EDIT:* My stun team must suck then... Ill talk to my LS about this, as Im not a stunner, so I assumed they couldnt be stunned. Guess Imma have to whip my RDM/DRKs into shape.

/slap

Although I haven't been to a Jorm in months so you can't be yelling at me :D

[Lockecole]

I've tried a full fire resist build. Sunate, Fire Carol, AF1 Body, Barfira...the resist rate isn't worth it. He's a level 90+ mob, the chances of resisting are very slim. -75 Fire hardly affects resist rate at all.

I've tried it also, with 200+ Fire resist and almost had a 25-50% resist rate of one kind or another (had a couple that resisted 10%... 20 something damage.)

If Fire magic is the ONLY way you take damage as a WAR/NIN (you get hit 3 times by Tiamat right? Id like to see that from a mob that has 100 delay unslowed/elegyed and double attacks) then why do you take SO LITTLE interest in reducing the ONLY source of damage you take as a tank? I'm sorry if your thinking seems a little backward to me.

[Okan]

Whats the point of having 75 extra HP though? even if one of those 10 breaths got resisted.. wouldnt it make it worth it then? That's what I dont get from HP builds, where if one resist isnt huge for you, then why is 75HP? You do realize that 75HP will only help you if you are brought below 75 HP.. and technically if you didnt use the BQ Ring, then you would never have been brought down that low.

I've tried a full fire resist build. Sunate, Fire Carol, AF1 Body, Barfira...the resist rate isn't worth it. He's a level 90+ mob, the chances of resisting are very slim. -75 Fire hardly affects resist rate at all.

We only use Barfira on Tiamat. His breath attack in air isn't that bad to worry.

[Palin]

What Nikko said. :wink:

As far as Jorm, we have a DRK/WHM who's sole purpose is stunning, and he gets almost every single Blizzaga. He has stunning down to a science and can stun a good portion of TP moves aswell (I don't know about other DDs since that gives him more TP then using SMNs, but with SMNs CoP wyrms have a pattern for it).

Zuth can stun Blizzaga and TP moves as /whm from Jorm? I find that a bit dubious since Drk Stun is no faster than Blms, and I find it extremely hard to Stun his -ga without hitting it before it pops up on the text, and thats with Rostrum's Fast Cast.

Drk/Rdm i could see, but /whm seems strange.

[Okan]

BLM/RDM with pumps go!

[Nny]

Zuth can stun Blizzaga and TP moves as /whm from Jorm? I find that a bit dubious since Drk Stun is no faster than Blms, and I find it extremely hard to Stun his -ga without hitting it before it pops up on the text, and thats with Rostrum's Fast Cast.

Drk/Rdm i could see, but /whm seems strange.

Zuth's a stunning beast. :wink: He doesn't even read the chat log a lot of the time.

Lockecole- Because -75 fire doesn't make a difference, where as +75 HP gives me a large buffer for mages to work with, as I've stated already.

you get hit 3 times by Tiamat right? Id like to see that from a mob that has 100 delay unslowed/elegyed and double attacks

What mages don't elegy and slow a mob? And what mages don't stun? Or haste? Or March? It's not very hard to not get hit, lol.

[Russta]

All you people bitching about the -75 resistence on BQ Ring, I have a question for you - have you consistently tried it on Wyrms? I know I have and I tank with it on for Fafnir, Nidhogg and Tiamat and it don't mean shit. Mobs of that level you aren't going to be resisting much (if at all) when they do the moderatly damaging Breath anyway so why not wear it? I know I'd rather having 75 HP for the odd occasion I fuck up Utsu casting than have a minimal chance of taking 100 less damage.

[Raineer]

Honestly it doesn't matter because we tank Tiamat with 2 PLD/WAR's and slaughter her anyways. It's just nice to talk theory sometimes. For the record I've seen exactly what Lockecole is talking about though, you *do* resist sometimes with a +fire build and from what I've seen the cummulative effects of saving dmg over time is better than +75hp prevention of spike damage.

[Lockecole]

you *do* resist sometimes with a +fire build and from what I've seen the cummulative effects of saving dmg over time is better than +75hp prevention of spike damage.

You can argue with that statement HOW?

[Russta]

you *do* resist sometimes with a +fire build and from what I've seen the cummulative effects of saving dmg over time is better than +75hp prevention of spike damage.

You can argue with that statement HOW?

In the same way you can't argue the counterpoint - no evidence was provided.

[layoneil]

you *do* resist sometimes with a +fire build and from what I've seen the cummulative effects of saving dmg over time is really not better than +75hp prevention of spike damage.

countered.

it's just a statement of opinion, nothing earth-shatteringly factual in it that can't be refuted by a difference of opinion.

[Luminaire]

In my opinion, no WAR should ever use Koenig Cuirass. AF1 Body has Enmity+8, HP+20, and VIT on it. Even for the big guys like Jorm/Vrtra/Tia, you need enmity to hold hate.

etc etc

Macro swap. My AF1 body exists in my inventory only for abilities. The rest of the time I'd rather have something else on. Definitely worth carrying around though.

Yeah and for those who think A- Axe is good enough... I'm glad I'll be outdamaging you in XP PTs. Seriously even with Ridill alot of your damage is coming from your WS and your main hand. Put at LEAST +6 into axe to make it close to A+, otherwise you're still a gimp A-. I have +12 axe +6sword +5 from Suppa, and plan on probably getting Fortitude Torque. I feel that is THE best setup for Axe/Sword.

If you mean axe/axe with axe merits will beat axe/Ridill or Ridill/Joyeuse with sword merits, you're wrong. If you mean axe/Ridill with axe merit focus beats sword merit focus, maybe you're right for EXP. It's not something I'm ever going to bother with being that I am already ridiculous for EXP without really trying for it (I tailor my gear/merits for being better at heavy stuff, but still OK for EXP - for example, I just wear Cassie for everything rather than Assault Earring which would usually be better in EXP). By no means is someone who doesn't merit 1h axe 'gimp.' At this stage the only person outdoing me in exp damage is...me, when I upgrade something or try something new.

I feel capping sword and dumping throwaway merits into EVA provides the greatest overall utility to the jobs I play (WAR, RDM, NIN). The only other option that ever crossed my mind was choosing parry instead of EVA but I've never really seen commentary from people on how that works out. You obviously feel differently, good for you. I'll be sure to note how gimped I am for not meritting 1h axe when I'm busy outdamaging everyone in every EXP pt I join or hanging with BLMs at Fafhogg and KB without even using axe.

Wow are you that bored in XP PTs to feel a need to gimp yourself that badly?

This was in response to "Axe is also out since often I'll go with Seiryu/Ridill or Ridill/Joyeuse instead of Maneater/Ridill, just depends on mob/situation." I figured IT JUST DEPENDS ON THE SITUATION shored up any counter, but just so it's clear, I did not necessarily mean EXP. Seiryu/Ridill is for solo/small groups (EVA merits, EVA Torque, Scorp +1, Kote, Bat Earrings if necessary, etc. etc. and WAR isn't too bad at playing ghetto NIN - I've tanked Chary like this for example). I am not busting out Seiryu/Ridill in EXP. And if you think Ridill/Joyeuse is gimped in EXP then you do not have access to parser programs.

[Lockecole]

Well I have a parser program, and both Ridill/Joyeuse, yet Ive never tried the combo. Only XP PT out there which i think Ridill/Joy would be better is a D.Weapon party, and that I still dont think it would outdamage an axe/ridill combo for these reasons.

These are my merits, +12axe/+6Sword, +3crit%, +4str, +5D.attack.

With that setup, and Maneater/Ridill, and macroing WAR AF2 for weapon skill, with as much as I double attack to begin with my main weapon, I dont see how you can justify gimping my main hand (putting a 40DMG weapon in it), gimping my weapon skill (Vorpal Blade is SOOO gimped in comparison to Rampage, I wont even begin to compare the two. The fact that one is 4hit and one is 5 is only the beginning.) Losing 16att and 5acc before 100% and during weapon skill, and losing on my A++ skill for a 261 skill Sword.

I just dont feel the reduced base damage of joy is worth it at all, and in comparison to how much I double attack now (Im aware its still alot more with Joy) I feel all that there would be an increase in would be TP gain to an extent, and even not that huge. Plus I'd probably hold TP more because of the lack of latent on Maneater. I tend to spam more then it, though thats obviously not a valid argument. Anyway, I'll try just for you to parser it. I may actually try this combination once my LS begins to hit sea up hard, and I get myself a Fortitude Torque. Then I believe it might be a viable option.

Just to let you know, and Im not tooting my horn by any means, Ive outparsered other WARs by 100% in a Celestial Nexus party... and NEVER.. EVER met another DD which has outdamaged me since Ive been at the level of WAR I have recently. So I know my shit. ^^ I don't doubt you do also, which is why I will def try the Ridill/JOy (if anything for the fact that it just looks badass.)

[Luminaire]

Ive outparsered other WARs by 100% in a Celestial Nexus party... and NEVER.. EVER met another DD which has outdamaged me since Ive been at the level of WAR I have recently. So I know my shit. ^^ I don't doubt you do also, which is why I will def try the Ridill/JOy (if anything for the fact that it just looks badass.)

Neither have I. However, different setups work for different people. I used to have Aggressor capped rather than DA and for me then, Rid/Joy far beat any axe/Rid combo I could come up with. However, I dumped by Aggressor merits and am capping DA now (honestly, I got too lazy watching different timers for Zerk/Agg XD also I want greater chance to DA on WS). I think with DA capped axe/Ridill is a more consistent option than Rid/Joy. Especially for you, with more merits in axe than sword. Rid/Joy is still not gimped at all, and is a great option if you don't cap DA/axe merits, or if you need to Savage Blade for some reason, etc.

As far as Vorpal vs. Rampage goes, they're really not different at all, as weaponskills. The main difference is going to be that if you're using Vorpal you're probably mainhanding a Ridill so your WS is coming from a B rank damage 40 weapon rather than say, an A- rank damage 49 Maneater or damage 50 Woodsville's. Apart from the difference due to weapon skill level and damage, they're basically the same. Sure Rampage has an extra hit but the first hit is also half damage, that's not true of Vorpal. Both have chance to crit and both are modified by strength. If you feel like mainhanding a Company Sword or just spamming with Ridill Vorpal is still very nice, especially if you have good gear to swap in for WS (and of course BRD for Minuet). But especially with your setup yeah, Vorpal is gonna lose to Rampage, and capping DA merits takes away a lot of what makes Rid/Joy strong vs. axe/Rid.

You pretty much said all that in your post already so of course you know, heh. I think you just came off a little overzealous. I think Rid/Joy is better if you cap Zerk or Agg rather than DA, and it was better before Maneater was in the game. I do think the best overall setup now is capping DA and using Man/Rid. Combat merits are debateable but again I wouldn't call someone gimped because they didn't merit 1h axe.

[Moggy]

All you people bitching about the -75 resistence on BQ Ring, I have a question for you - have you consistently tried it on Wyrms? I know I have and I tank with it on for Fafnir, Nidhogg and Tiamat and it don't mean shit. Mobs of that level you aren't going to be resisting much (if at all) when they do the moderatly damaging Breath anyway so why not wear it? I know I'd rather having 75 HP for the odd occasion I fuck up Utsu casting than have a minimal chance of taking 100 less damage.

resistance does help, tiamat firaga III doesn't break 200 on me with suzaku boots, barfira, fire carol, but without carol and bar it normally shoots around 500-700, never tried BQ ring on since i'm a brd i don't tank

[Raineer]

All you people bitching about the -75 resistence on BQ Ring, I have a question for you - have you consistently tried it on Wyrms? I know I have and I tank with it on for Fafnir, Nidhogg and Tiamat and it don't mean shit. Mobs of that level you aren't going to be resisting much (if at all) when they do the moderatly damaging Breath anyway so why not wear it? I know I'd rather having 75 HP for the odd occasion I fuck up Utsu casting than have a minimal chance of taking 100 less damage.

resistance does help, tiamat firaga III doesn't break 200 on me with suzaku boots, barfira, fire carol, but without carol and bar it normally shoots around 500-700, never tried BQ ring on since i'm a brd i don't tank

This is interesting to hear from a bard since you wouldn't have any higher (37+) Magic Defense traits like a WHM or RDM would, one would think a tank with Shell4 on might be able to resist also.

However I guess the whole arguement wasn't really about Firagas, it was about fireballs and inferno breath. Firagas should be 100% stunned, when I have to afk I just silence him and go wc/kitchen/whatever.

[Moggy]

All you people bitching about the -75 resistence on BQ Ring, I have a question for you - have you consistently tried it on Wyrms? I know I have and I tank with it on for Fafnir, Nidhogg and Tiamat and it don't mean shit. Mobs of that level you aren't going to be resisting much (if at all) when they do the moderatly damaging Breath anyway so why not wear it? I know I'd rather having 75 HP for the odd occasion I fuck up Utsu casting than have a minimal chance of taking 100 less damage.

resistance does help, tiamat firaga III doesn't break 200 on me with suzaku boots, barfira, fire carol, but without carol and bar it normally shoots around 500-700, never tried BQ ring on since i'm a brd i don't tank

This is interesting to hear from a bard since you wouldn't have any higher (37+) Magic Defense traits like a WHM or RDM would, one would think a tank with Shell4 on might be able to resist also.

However I guess the whole arguement wasn't really about Firagas, it was about fireballs and inferno breath. Firagas should be 100% stunned, when I have to afk I just silence him and go wc/kitchen/whatever.

the tank PT never has a whm, so no one there would have anything higher than /whm for magic def bonus, i don't cast the bar, the rdm does it, i think bar spells reach highest for whm, but rdm does a good job still, my fire def hits over 200 in total, i don't cop fire breaths so i dunno, fireballs are so weak a cure II will top up my hp normally

[Nagamaki]

A RDM/WHM will have a higher natural Bar spell cap due to higher enhancing magic skill (by 1 resist point per 5 skill levels) but WHM gets AF2 legs and JSE body enhancements that far outweigh the small skill-based gap. It sucks that elemental staves don't affect bar spells, I really think they should since each bar is a spell of the strong-vs element, would give me a reason to get more HQ staves as WHM and then I'd have them for NIN and future mages jobs.

So for a maxed resist number on tanks you'd want a WHM, but a RDM/WHM will still do a decent job.