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Thread: Paradins Meripo?     submit to reddit submit to twitter submit to tumblr

  1. #1

    Paradins Meripo?

    Since I'm replacing most of my gear with HP+ gear, I'm losing a whole lot of enmity. Considering that, do you think I should invest my points in +enmity to make up for it? I hold hate well during HNM and Gods with my current set up, but will this change as I replace most of it?

  2. #2
    Yoshi P
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    If that's your primary job and you do not plan on leveling any other non-tank job, than yes. Also consider investing into Crit hits take -% if above statement applies.

    From personal experience in situations where you are /NIN you'll need more Enmity than HP. In instance of /WAR you need a mix of both, preferably leaning more towards HP.

    Just carry both sets. :D

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    This isnt going so well guys.
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    You shouldnt need more emnity for gods if you have enough thf or /thf melees to sata on you. Our plds go +hp with no emnity merits that i know of, and they do fine

  4. #4
    E. Body
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    As mentioned above, I really do not recommend enmity merits. That will hurt you when you're leveling other jobs that don't want that extra enmity.

    Instead, I suggest macros.
    /equip Enmity craps
    /ja Provoke
    /wait 1
    /equip HP craps. (Well, depending on the armor, you might need 2 macro sets to change the armors...)

  5. #5
    The Optimistic Asshole
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    Maybe im dumb, if so, feel free to point out so...but i thought the amount of +enmity you have defines how much enmity you lose per tick/hit taken. Like hate loss per minute. Therefore, subbing in +enmity for a voke, then taking it off does absolutely nothing, as the enmity from the voke is going to spike, and then deplete quickly since you aren't keeping the enmity gear equipped, as opposed to where if you left the enmity gear on, the hate would deplete slower.

    For instance...

    My WHM with -30 enmity is gonna throw out a cure IV. The Cure IV still has just as much hate initially as if any other WHM threw it out (assuming its a full cure IV cure). its a hate spike. Now the hate on me will diminish quite rapidly because of my -enmity build. Where as it would take longer to diminish hate from a cure IV with no -enmity build.

  6. #6
    Sea Torques
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    just get a full set of enmity gear, meripo yur 3 enmity points and anything beyond that isn't completly necessary to be a good tank(gear/meripowise)

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    HP PLD's suck on Siren, idk how it's different on your server.

    HP PLD = ~300 hits from Tiamat

    Good PLD = ~180 hits from Tiamat

    Eh, I'd rather have a good PLD...but I guess you guys use ninja's anyways.

  8. #8
    Xavier
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    pld/nin is aegish/rest af2/gigant/hades+1/cassie/harmonyes torque/sattva ring/hercules ring/warwolf belt/koenig (kaiser) shield, durandal/hrotti/ IMO

    if you're pld/war, replace all af2 with koenig (ol) and go forth.

    in all seriousness you need to keep both hp and enmity gear, you can't get away with one or the other.

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    My WHM with -30 enmity is gonna throw out a cure IV. The Cure IV still has just as much hate initially as if any other WHM threw it out (assuming its a full cure IV cure). its a hate spike. Now the hate on me will diminish quite rapidly because of my -enmity build. Where as it would take longer to diminish hate from a cure IV with no -enmity build.
    It does lessen the hate "spike" from the cure4. I don't think it has anything to do with residual hate at all. I think all hate recedes at the same pace (comparing spell to spell equally, obviously cure hate is slower to decline than a voke spike.)

    Enmity reduces the amount of hate that you start off with, thereby reducing your overall hate.

    Added: Essentially what I mean is if you are just standing up doing nothing, if you switch to -enmity gear you aren't "shedding hate" any faster...it's just that any actions you now take will accumulate less hate.

  10. #10
    Sea Torques
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    let's ask Dev's how it really works....o wait

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    The Optimistic Asshole
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    OK, example then, how come i may throw out a cure III or something in an exp party, and the mob will start to walk towards me, and then it will turn around and go back to the PLD without the PLD doing any abilities/curing/spells. This happens, ppl have pointed this out. There has to be differentiating hate loss associated with enmity.

  12. #12
    Sea Torques
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raineer
    HP PLD's suck on Siren, idk how it's different on your server.

    HP PLD = ~300 hits from Tiamat

    Good PLD = ~180 hits from Tiamat

    Eh, I'd rather have a good PLD...but I guess you guys use ninja's anyways.
    I don't get hit from tiamat at all?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikwin
    Quote Originally Posted by Raineer
    HP PLD's suck on Siren, idk how it's different on your server.

    HP PLD = ~300 hits from Tiamat

    Good PLD = ~180 hits from Tiamat

    Eh, I'd rather have a good PLD...but I guess you guys use ninja's anyways.
    I don't get hit from tiamat at all?
    Like I said, different strats.. We use PLD/WAR so there's no hate issues. Most JP's on our server use PLD/NIN or NIN's and get flailed...like alot (ya, even those REALLY REALLY GOOD jp ls's)

    I'd rather have 2 tanks that actually..like..TANK, instead of worrying about random draw-in's and bullshit. Quicker kills too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyche
    OK, example then, how come i may throw out a cure III or something in an exp party, and the mob will start to walk towards me, and then it will turn around and go back to the PLD without the PLD doing any abilities/curing/spells. This happens, ppl have pointed this out. There has to be differentiating hate loss associated with enmity.
    No, this is because your cure is shedding hate from the second you cast it. ALL hate declines over time. If you just barely top the tank's hate, then the mob will turn around once your hate is shed.

    The statement of "a WHM casting Cure4 with -30 enmity gets the same hate spike as any other WHM" is absolutely incorrect.

  15. #15
    The Optimistic Asshole
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    If all hate diminishes at the same rate, then there is no possible way that the mob should turn back to the PLD without the WHM or the PLD hitting any abilities or taking any hits. If what you said was true, then the WHM is shredding hate at a faster rate, beings they went over the hate of the PLD, and then he went under the hate. Now if the PLD and WHM diminish hate at the same rate, its just not possible.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyche
    If all hate diminishes at the same rate, then there is no possible way that the mob should turn back to the PLD without the WHM or the PLD hitting any abilities or taking any hits. If what you said was true, then the WHM is shredding hate at a faster rate, beings they went over the hate of the PLD, and then he went under the hate. Now if the PLD and WHM diminish hate at the same rate, its just not possible.
    Well, the thing is PLD also have the ability to Cure IV themselves.
    Secondly, you have a bad WHM to be casting Cure IV. Either Chain III or go V. IV is just an insane amount of hate.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyche
    If all hate diminishes at the same rate, then there is no possible way that the mob should turn back to the PLD without the WHM or the PLD hitting any abilities or taking any hits. If what you said was true, then the WHM is shredding hate at a faster rate, beings they went over the hate of the PLD, and then he went under the hate. Now if the PLD and WHM diminish hate at the same rate, its just not possible.
    That's ignoring the fact that different abilities shed hate at different rates. Maybe your Cure3 hate diminished faster than one of the PLD's JA's that were already used.

    It's entirely possible that casting with lots of -enmity DOES help hate shed faster, and that the PLD with +enmity makes it shed slower. I would totally buy that arguement... However the original poster made it sound like you can change equipment after you've already cast the spell and it will all the sudden change the rate at which your hate is decaying.

    My contention is that once you've taken the action, the rate of hate decay is set in stone. You can swap from -30 enmity to +10 enmity and that hate you've already accumulated continues to decay at it's original rate.

    Kinda confusing since you jumped in and argued a different point than the first WHM lol

  18. #18
    The Optimistic Asshole
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    Quote Originally Posted by Okan
    Quote Originally Posted by Tyche
    If all hate diminishes at the same rate, then there is no possible way that the mob should turn back to the PLD without the WHM or the PLD hitting any abilities or taking any hits. If what you said was true, then the WHM is shredding hate at a faster rate, beings they went over the hate of the PLD, and then he went under the hate. Now if the PLD and WHM diminish hate at the same rate, its just not possible.
    Well, the thing is PLD also have the ability to Cure IV themselves.
    Secondly, you have a bad WHM to be casting Cure IV. Either Chain III or go V. IV is just an insane amount of hate.
    I used that as an example for testing since Cure IV is the most hate a WHM can accumulate in one spell. It will take at least that to pull hate from a provoke.

  19. #19
    The Optimistic Asshole
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    Ill also buy the fact that some abilities enmity diminsh very fast. Ive heard PLD's say that shield Bash will spike hate very high, and then you will lose that hate very fast. I dunno, ive never had a tank job >.> Where as the hate from a cure IV will stay with you for a longer period of time.

  20. #20
    Sea Torques
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raineer
    Quote Originally Posted by Bikwin
    Quote Originally Posted by Raineer
    HP PLD's suck on Siren, idk how it's different on your server.

    HP PLD = ~300 hits from Tiamat

    Good PLD = ~180 hits from Tiamat

    Eh, I'd rather have a good PLD...but I guess you guys use ninja's anyways.
    I don't get hit from tiamat at all?
    Like I said, different strats.. We use PLD/WAR so there's no hate issues. Most JP's on our server use PLD/NIN or NIN's and get flailed...like alot (ya, even those REALLY REALLY GOOD jp ls's)

    I'd rather have 2 tanks that actually..like..TANK, instead of worrying about random draw-in's and bullshit. Quicker kills too.
    they must suck to get flailed

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