Questions about Hrotti.

[Lockecole]

Let me ask this:
You have a BST75 (He got in because he has say.. BRD75 as his main)
Another person is WAR75 (Main and only job)...

WAR. For the same reason you wouldnt give a Crimson Mask to a PLD over a RDM first... or even let them lot period. Some people are interested in equipping their LS members with items that actually benefit the LS and make them stronger. I dunno, maybe my LS is just crazy.

Trust me, it all adds up. When you see some LS who gives items dependant on favoritism and not on usefulness and watch them wipe to Fafnir with 18, when you can do it with ten... you start to realize that gear can get you a long way.

[Okan]

Let me ask this:
You have a BST75 (He got in because he has say.. BRD75 as his main)
Another person is WAR75 (Main and only job)...

WAR. For the same reason you wouldnt give a Crimson Mask to a PLD over a RDM first... or even let them lot period. Some people are interested in equipping their LS members with items that actually benefit the LS and make them stronger. I dunno, maybe my LS is just crazy.

Trust me, it all adds up. When you see some LS who gives items dependant on favoritism and not on usefulness and watch them wipe to Fafnir with 18, when you can do it with ten... you start to realize that gear can get you a long way.

Um... You can kill Fafnir wearing AF... Equipment means shit to kill anything.. Just makes it easier.

Edit: All you've done so far is prove my point. Give me one good reason the THF, WAR, DRK should get ridill over BST? I'm not saying BST should get first, I'm saying it should be equal for all who can use it because it's useless except in merit PTs.. You wouldn't use it against HNMs and if you do, rarely.

[Lockecole]

Give me one good reason the THF, WAR, DRK should get ridill over BST?

You musta missed my last reply stating specifically why you would. Ok next time W.Head drops for your LS, let all the PLDs lot for it... and tell me how useful that is for your LS. Or let BLMs lot Dalms over your RDMs.

Um... You can kill Fafnir wearing AF... Equipment means shit to kill anything.. Just makes it easier.

Fight Fafnir with 10 people wearing AF. I'll bring the R3's.

[Okan]

Give me one good reason the THF, WAR, DRK should get ridill over BST?

You musta missed my last reply stating specifically why you would. Ok next time W.Head drops for your LS, let all the PLDs lot for it... and tell me how useful that is for your LS. Or let BLMs lot Dalms over your RDMs.

[quote:17f8e]Um... You can kill Fafnir wearing AF... Equipment means shit to kill anything.. Just makes it easier.

Fight Fafnir with 10 people wearing AF. I'll bring the R3's.[/quote:17f8e]

Easily done without rage timers. That considering all of our damage is via SMN's Blood Pacts. Secondly, I didn't miss your post. you didn't name ANY reason why. You just tried to counter it with a different statement by naming an USEFUL item and giving it to a job that has little use for it over a USELESS item to a job that has no true use for it.

[Lockecole]

You just tried to counter it with a different statement by naming an USEFUL item and giving it to a job that has little use for it over a USELESS item to a job that has no true use for it.

It wasn't a counter... it was a metaphor. Hence simulating the situation of giving a Ridill to a BST by comparing it to giving a BLM a Dalm. How are the two situations different? My WAR WILL hit 90% of HNMs with a Ridill, and hit hard enough with A- skill. I was 28% of our LSes damage on a Nidhogg we had, on top of sharing hate with the PLDs 50% of the time and reducing the MP usage by a significant amount. Tell me Ridill isn't good for a WAR and isnt used in HNM situations. I'll tell you you're wrong.

Easily done without rage timers. That considering all of our damage is via SMN's Blood Pacts.

2SMNs, 1BLM. My point was you won't always have the right amount of people, nor the right job classes, when you are forced to claim an NM. I'm aware of how broken BPs are vs 90% of the mobs in this game, and especially the wyrms. 6man tank PT and 4SMNs wouldnt impress me. Unfortunately that doesnt happen all the time.

[Okan]

You just tried to counter it with a different statement by naming an USEFUL item and giving it to a job that has little use for it over a USELESS item to a job that has no true use for it.

It wasn't a counter... it was a metaphor. Hence simulating the situation of giving a Ridill to a BST by comparing it to giving a BLM a Dalm. How are the two situations different? My WAR WILL hit 90% of HNMs with a Ridill, and hit hard enough with A- skill. I was 28% of our LSes damage on a Nidhogg we had, on top of sharing hate with the PLDs 50% of the time and reducing the MP usage by a significant amount. Tell me Ridill isn't good for a WAR and isnt used in HNM situations. I'll tell you you're wrong.

It was a counter. Dalmatica is trash. Only use is for the "refresh" effect which they can use a Verm Cloak for. That's why they made /equip for macros. WAR has a B rate for sword unless you're including merits and sword skill equipment.

[Lockecole]

Dalmatica is trash.

For BLM. Not for RDM. (especially with AF2 hat.) Now think on that... and let me know if you catch the metaphor.

[Aerandir]

Doesnt BST have an E rating on sword, compared to WAR that's 50 less skill points at lv 75...

[Okan]

Dalmatica is trash.

For BLM. Not for RDM. (especially with AF2 hat.) Now think on that... and let me know if you catch the metaphor.

Thought about it. Dalmatica is still trash. Even for RDM. It has no extra usage except to convert some extra HP in to MP and give refresh... Don't most RDM want Crimson Mail anyway?

[anoush]

I would want Dalmatica over Crimson mail as RDM

[Orfeo]

People have to realize that some items... just because they are equippable by that job, doesnt neccesarily mean they are useful, or beneficial to the LS, or even yourself. I wouldn't sympathize with a BLM who complained he'll never get a Dalmatica because he doesnt lvl RDM. I think the same can be said for many BST.

So basically what you said is that BST has to be solo 100% of the time. Why can't a BST have these items for Rampage PTs? You're saying that BST can never do any HNM events.. Why not?

Edit: Actually that could be said for Ridill period. It's only a TP gaining item. No real "usefulness" anywhere. THF has no "use" for it because they have Triple attack which gives them great TP gain. WAR doesn't need it because they actually are what? C rated with sword? Missing go. DRK? Why use a sword when GS/Scythe is better? Catch my drift?

Ridill = E-Peen onry.

Im kinda comming in here late, and may of missed something, but you realize that riddil alone will make a WAR god...right? It's very good for HNMs (fuck mob tp, it means absolutely nothing), and even better for exp.

I have both BST and WAR leveled, and even without WAR leveled I would definataly say WAR gets riddil first, BST last. Any BST who wants riddil over a THF or WAR with equal attendance is a greedy mother fucker.

[Toreador]

Yeah because we all know TP Build means nothing Vs. HNM... Your post is retarded, It has incredible usefullness for THF and WAR, and I agree with Orfeo, Its WAY more useful for THF and WAR

[Okan]

People have to realize that some items... just because they are equippable by that job, doesnt neccesarily mean they are useful, or beneficial to the LS, or even yourself. I wouldn't sympathize with a BLM who complained he'll never get a Dalmatica because he doesnt lvl RDM. I think the same can be said for many BST.

So basically what you said is that BST has to be solo 100% of the time. Why can't a BST have these items for Rampage PTs? You're saying that BST can never do any HNM events.. Why not?

Edit: Actually that could be said for Ridill period. It's only a TP gaining item. No real "usefulness" anywhere. THF has no "use" for it because they have Triple attack which gives them great TP gain. WAR doesn't need it because they actually are what? C rated with sword? Missing go. DRK? Why use a sword when GS/Scythe is better? Catch my drift?

Ridill = E-Peen onry.

Im kinda comming in here late, and may of missed something, but you realize that riddil alone will make a WAR god...right? It's very good for HNMs (fuck mob tp, it means absolutely nothing), and even better for exp.

I have both BST and WAR leveled, and even without WAR leveled I would definataly say WAR gets riddil first, BST last. Any BST who wants riddil over a THF or WAR with equal attendance is a greedy mother fucker.

Greedy mother fucker how? They earned it. They put in as much dedication in to the LS (Going by my story earlier.) as that WAR or THF.

Mind you, I'm not saying it has NO use for THF or WAR. I'm just saying that it's not the item that WAR should get first nomatterthecircumstancesnomatterwhatmustgetfirstbe causeitsthebestestthingever. I'm just saying that it's not THAT great and item except for meripo. Sure, TP doesn't mean too much, but it does make a difference at HNMs. Just depends on which HNM it is.

[Orfeo]

Yeah because we all know TP Build means nothing Vs. HNM... Your post is retarded, It has incredible usefullness for THF and WAR, and I agree with Orfeo, Its WAY more useful for THF and WAR

TP build of player or mob?

Greedy mother fucker how? They earned it. They put in as much dedication in to the LS (Going by my story earlier.) as that WAR or THF.

Look at it this way (you're a blm, suppose you can relate to this)

Say you were in a beginning sky linkshell, never killed a god before or anything. Just did jeuno HNM's and the likes. You and a WHM have both put in hard work and lots of time with the linkshell. You and said WHM are both in attendance at a genbu which drops zenith hands. Would the WHM lot because he has an equal attendance record as you?

Answer: FUCK NO

Part of endgame is being happy for others who obtain items which will boost their character. If all you want to do is boost yours (mind you, riddil is 99.9% useless for a BST and doesn't really boost it), then yes, you are a greedy mother fucker.

[Toreador]

Yeah because we all know TP Build means nothing Vs. HNM... Your post is retarded, It has incredible usefullness for THF and WAR, and I agree with Orfeo, Its WAY more useful for THF and WAR

TP build of player or mob?

Greedy mother fucker how? They earned it. They put in as much dedication in to the LS (Going by my story earlier.) as that WAR or THF.

Look at it this way (you're a blm, suppose you can relate to this)

Say you were in a beginning sky linkshell, never killed a god before or anything. Just did jeuno HNM's and the likes. You and a WHM have both put in hard work and lots of time with the linkshell. You and said WHM are both in attendance at a genbu which drops zenith hands. Would the WHM lot because he has an equal attendance record as you?

Answer: FUCK NO

Part of endgame is being happy for others who obtain items which will boost their character. If all you want to do is boost yours (mind you, riddil is 99.9% useless for a BST and doesn't really boost it), then yes, you are a greedy mother fucker.

oh lol Player TP Build... I was being sarcastic >.>

[Orfeo]

Ah, ok ;x

[Okan]

Yeah because we all know TP Build means nothing Vs. HNM... Your post is retarded, It has incredible usefullness for THF and WAR, and I agree with Orfeo, Its WAY more useful for THF and WAR

TP build of player or mob?

Greedy mother fucker how? They earned it. They put in as much dedication in to the LS (Going by my story earlier.) as that WAR or THF.

Look at it this way (you're a blm, suppose you can relate to this)

Say you were in a beginning sky linkshell, never killed a god before or anything. Just did jeuno HNM's and the likes. You and a WHM have both put in hard work and lots of time with the linkshell. You and said WHM are both in attendance at a genbu which drops zenith hands. Would the WHM lot because he has an equal attendance record as you?

Answer: Yeah I would because as Orfeo said "Part of endgame is being happy for others who obtain items which will boost their character."

Part of endgame is being happy for others who obtain items which will boost their character. If all you want to do is boost yours (mind you, riddil is 99.9% useless for a BST and doesn't really boost it), then yes, you are a greedy mother fucker.

Fix'd.

Unlike 99.9% of the End game community, I don't put precedence on "OMGOMGOMGJOB FET GIRST!!! YOU PASS!!!"... I go more by "Hey, cool, you got the a hands. I'll take the next one because we'll get another eventually."

... That's why I passed 100% of sky items when I first was there (I didn't have noble's or any zenith and was WHM75) because I just don't care THAT much. Eventually it came down to my LS forcing me to get Zenith Crown because everyone else had something.

[Orfeo]

Oh you're a WHM? Bad example then ;x

At any rate, fafnir doesn't exactly shit riddils. The drop is so damn rare, that it's best to give it to somebody who has a USE for it, rather then somebody that wants to stand around in jeuno and make somebody who can USE it wait for monthes to get one. It's seriously useless for BST anyway, for solo it pulls too much hate, and in parties...why would a BST join an EXP party? If you want to party, level another job. Don't give me some "well maybe they don't want to" bullshit...because hell I'm a BST and when somebody says they want to party, I say go level another job.

On a side note, who said what to start this conversation anyways? Was it even a BST saying they wanted riddill or what?

[Okan]

Oh you're a WHM? Bad example then ;x

At any rate, fafnir doesn't exactly shit riddils. The drop is so damn rare, that it's best to give it to somebody who has a USE for it, rather then somebody that wants to stand around in jeuno and make somebody who can USE it wait for monthes to get one. It's seriously useless for BST anyway, for solo it pulls too much hate, and in parties...why would a BST join an EXP party? If you want to party, level another job. Don't give me some "well maybe they don't want to" bullshit...because hell I'm a BST and when somebody says they want to party, I say go level another job.

On a side note, who said what to start this conversation anyways? Was it even a BST saying they wanted riddill or what?

Not a bad example. I'm also BLM.

I said I'd like to get a ridill one day (I also have a BST). It's not got XP PTs, but it would be nice for Rampage PTs and generally having fun.

[Raineer]

Dalmatica is trash.

For BLM. Not for RDM. (especially with AF2 hat.) Now think on that... and let me know if you catch the metaphor.

Thought about it. Dalmatica is still trash. Even for RDM. It has no extra usage except to convert some extra HP in to MP and give refresh... Don't most RDM want Crimson Mail anyway?

No. Not going to even start on the technical reasons why since this thread is already hacked enough as it is.

Maybe not the case on other jobs, but being able to free up head slot while holding the extra refresh tick allows one RDM to do more than he should be able to via the extra MP and added fastcast. When you have one RDM at whatever event and he has to be the only refresher/haster/(stunner if needed)/plus cure extra people in the alliance due to lower casting times and more MP.

You don't always have an optimal setup and sometimes people need to stretch beyond what they are normally capable of. Better gear helps you do that. Hell yes I could play my RDM role in full AF1 in a alliance of 15+ at a faf/nid. When you start talking about 9-10 people and one RDM, then i'm sorry it takes a little more. That's where the additional gear comes in.

The LS is served better by giving the gear first to people who can utilize it most to help that LS. One popular LS on Siren gives crimson bodies to PLD over RDM because it has hp/mp and they tank in them, but hey..to each his own.

Basically if you want to be up the ladder to get a Ridill, level WAR. People used to level RNG just to get osodes pre-patch. It's just the reality of the game. If you had 5 DRG's apply to your LS would you accept them if they were good players? Likely not, because it's not the most beneficial situation for your LS. Do you give Koenig to WAR's that don't tank over PLD? Same example.