Questions about Hrotti.

[raginbull]

To say that he had to RMT to come up with 3 mil is not smarter than buying Hrotti itself.

People say BG RMTs too, w/e, only gilseller I know on the forums is Fatality.

Not everyone can camp Fafnir 3 hours a day for the next month and surround themselves with people that are welling to do that.

FFXI is a MMO, MMO are about investing a lot of time to obtain large payoffs. Buying items off of linkshells that drop from NMS your own group has no chance of killing is cheating the system, and I'm entitled to my opinion that its as bad as RMT, just as you are that its not.

FI dominates Bahamut, and they will continue to dominate it forever, because as long as people continue to pay them for items they don't want off 3 Kings, they will camp them just for that reason.. Your LS will never get to fight these monsters if that persists, will never improve, and the purchased gear was better off not being purchased since it'll never get used.

HELL YES

Xav you are fully entitled to your opinion. I would like to know your views on a few issues though. Firstly, to the uninformed observer, it would appear that your negative view of paying an LS to receive an item is somewhat hypocritical considering BG recently sold a Wyrm Beard to Valiant of the much-maligned Knightls linkshell. Do you have any comment to make about that?

Also, you stated that the only RMT you are aware of is Fatality. However. there are certain individuals within BG who have been accused on these forums of being RMT'ers themselves. As it is highly unlikely such claims are true, what do you think the motive behind such accusations is? Jealousy? As one of the more articulated posters on here I'd like to know what your opinions are.

[Xavier]

Firstly, to the uninformed observer, it would appear that your negative view of paying an LS to receive an item is somewhat hypocritical considering BG recently sold a Wyrm Beard to Valiant of the much-maligned Knightls linkshell. Do you have any comment to make about that?

Also, you stated that the only RMT you are aware of is Fatality. However. there are certain individuals within BG who have been accused on these forums of being RMT'ers themselves.

I'd agree it'd be very hypocritical if I was the leader of BG, but I'm not, so I don't make those kind of decisions. I personally don't agree with it, but I'm not going to quit the game because people I know do it.

Fatality was a joke pointed at this; http://www.theorderls.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=5173. I know more people RMT but Fataility actually posted logs dealing w/ IGE lol.

[Realm]

Wow..I didnt check forums in 1 day and this happens..
I didnt buy Hrotti to tank Seiryu with, I bought it because I wanted it.

I was just asking a question but I guess im an idiot for asking that question, I thank Amarao and Ed for anwsering, I use my terra's staff to tank gods, Im not an idiot, I know how to play my job, anyone who's partied with me when I merit or exp my Paladin knows that.

I was just asking a question I didnt know the anwser to, I bought a Hrotti, does it mean that Im going to use it for absolutely every mob that I fight?

No.

I know that I wont fafnir or the 3 wyrms anytime soon, I just wanted the fucking sword, Its useless to me, I know that.

[Member #63]

Bad analogy with US and War there. You by no means hold an office in United States government, yet you are a moderator on these very forums and if I'm not mistaken a Sack holder for BG Linkshell, am I right? If you are considered officer than you have right and duty to speak up about any and all decisions made by your linkshell. Being apathetic about situation is your own short comings.

So if I'm not mistaken, it's ok for you to sell re/ex item to make a profit from ikt, but it's bad to have people buy re/ex item from another HNM LS because you say so? Wow...

[Xavier]

Bad analogy with US and War there. You by no means hold an office in United States government, yet you are a moderator on these very forums and if I'm not mistaken a Sack holder for BG Linkshell, am I right? If you are considered officer than you have right and duty to speak up about any and all decisions made by your linkshell. Being apathetic about situation is your own short comings.

So if I'm not mistaken, it's ok for you to sell re/ex item to make a profit from ikt, but it's bad to have people buy re/ex item from another HNM LS because you say so? Wow...

3rd post and you're already flaming BG again. We live in a democracy, where people are elected. My vote is what makes me a part of the system, you don't have to hold office to influence policy/be affected by it.

Having a pearlsack means nothing, its a sign of being extremely active, but you wouldn't know that because you don't know how BG operates. I'm sure the people in charge appreciate you telling them how to run a successful linkshell . I said my opinion was that it was cheating endgame, I don't run BG and I don't control how it works. I don't see your point.

[layoneil]

If you are considered officer than you have right and duty to speak up about any and all decisions made by your linkshell. Being apathetic about situation is your own short comings.

he has stated his position and everyone else in BG who care to has stated theirs. what is he suppose to do when he get out voted?

you think every Senator, House Rep, Cabinet Member supports every decision that is ever passed?

if you're in the minority, you move on.

if you take every LS decision you don't agree with as, "well if you don't do it my way or i quit" than you can gtfo.

don't make it out as if Xavier has never made his opinion known because he has.

So if I'm not mistaken, it's ok for you to sell re/ex item to make a profit from ikt, but it's bad to have people buy re/ex item from another HNM LS because you say so? Wow...

you are mistaken.

as an LS position, it's okay to buy or sell Ex items in general, though some items we've decided are restricted sale or no sale.

the only problem we might have is if people camp something for the sole purpose of selling Ex items. we camp Faf/Nidhogg for abjurations, Ridill, Hrotti, that's our purpose. we only sell extra items of our choosing that LS member don't want as a byproduct of the main goal.

if every Ex item that might drop from the mob is no longer needed, we won't be camping it.

if people in the LS have opinions that differ from that they are entitled to it but it doesn't necessarily change LS policy as a whole.

Xavier has never bought an Ex item, he has also never been the LS member to solicit a seller for Ex items. every sale has come through other LS members, so he has never violated his personal position.

also, our willingness to sell items has no bearing on our opinion on the people who buy them. ever see a woman buy clothes that's just one size too small? ever see the salesman beg and plead the woman not to buy it? it's your right to be an ignorant consumer and our right to think/comment however we want.

3rd post on a 2nd account, still making stuff up, stretching the truth and having me correct you so you continue to look ignorant.

[Member #63]

So Sendoh doesn't say I derail topics into flame wars, Hrotti is a cool looking sword and has it's purpose. Ed and Amarao gave the answers. I'm not agreeing with Realm in regards to buying the sword, but it's his money and he can spend it as he sees fit. End of story. If it's a smart decision, that's a whole different story.

The utter lack of humilty and respect which you and many others from your LS have shown towards anyone "lesser" than you on the HNM LS food chain, warrants the so called "flaming" you refering to. Don't think I'm the only one who holds such opinion. I don't post on UDF, FriendlyFire, SB or any other LS's boards about your LS, if it doesn't directly involve theirs and your and my LS to some extent. I post here because it concerns your LS. Your boards, your issues, hence why I post here. And if you, the moderators, were mature enough to take critisism, I wouldn't have to make 2nd account to express my opinion.

also, our willingness to sell items has no bearing on our opinion on the people who buy them. it's your right to be an ignorant consumer and our right to think/comment however we want.

I don't contest your right to express your opinion about someone making rediculous purchase, but stating people shouldn't buy them and in return selling some yourself is down right hypocritical. Yeah, while Valiant buying Beard is smarter choice than Realm buying Hrotti, the fact still stands.

[aurik]

The point that people don't always agree 100% with one's linkshell policies is well taken; in fact, a sign of a healthy, strengthening linkshell is one that doesn't require its members to adopt a hive-mind mentality.

However, the fact remains that BG people are heckling this poor bastard because they don't like the fact that FI is getting an extra 3m gil for something they would kill anyway for Ridill. Then they turn around and do the same thing with their LS days later, getting a 4m gil bonus for something they would kill anyway for Ridill and a.feet. It's hypocrisy.

Of course, don't let that stop you:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...wserSig38k.gif
Just don't be shocked when you get called out on it.

[Xavier]

The point that people don't always agree 100% with one's linkshell policies is well taken; in fact, a sign of a healthy, strengthening linkshell is one that doesn't require its members to adopt a hive-mind mentality.

However, the fact remains that BG people are heckling this poor bastard because they don't like the fact that FI is getting an extra 3m gil for something they would kill anyway for Ridill. It's hypocrisy.

How is agreeing that not everyone has to agree with linkshell decisions and then calling them hypocrits when their LS does something not in itself hypocrisy?

[layoneil]

If it's a smart decision, that's a whole different story.

it's not a different story, that was the main point of contention for a lot of people.

warrants the so called "flaming" you refering to. Don't think I'm the only one who holds such opinion.

that's your opinion, and mine is nothing warrants lying and stretching the truth which you do so often.

I don't post on UDF, FriendlyFire, SB or any other LS's boards about your LS, if it doesn't directly involve theirs and your and my LS to some extent. I post here because it concerns your LS. Your boards, your issues, hence why I post here.

keyword "and", most of your comments doesn't involve your LS to any extent outside of it being on the same server. if you want to go to that many degrees of seperation, you can stretch it to anyone who plays FFXI or anyone who plays MMOs.

you comment cause you like drama, don't make yourself out to be defending your LS from some great injustice.

but stating people shouldn't buy them and in return selling some yourself is down right hypocritical. Yeah, while Valiant buying Beard is smarter choice than Realm buying Hrotti, the fact still stands.

go quote those posts where we say "people shouldn't buy any Ex items" and we'll see where the facts really stand.

here's a quote for you to show where the facts stand and where you pull crap out of your behind:

i think it's okay to buy and sell Ex gear. i think you're stupid if you buy Ex gear that you can not or should not use.

[aurik]

Regardless of what your personal philosophy is, you do engage in the activity that you are bashing Realm for. There's the hypocrisy.

If you wanted to bash Realm for making a commodity of ra/ex goods and NOT be a hypocrite, you would abstain from any camps where your LS engages in this activity.

[Xavier]

You have unrealistic expectations of mankind.

[aurik]

Perhaps I do :wink:

[layoneil]

Regardless of what your personal philosophy is, you do engage in the activity that you are bashing Realm for. There's the hypocrisy.

If you wanted to bash Realm for making a commodity of ra/ex goods and NOT be a hypocrite, you would abstain from any camps where your LS engages in this activity.

that's a strong position to take. if he were to do that, he would not get to lot on Martial Body.

i don't agree with that war, i'm going to quit paying federal taxes.

do you quit your job cause you found out your boss slapped his wife?

there's a point to make a stand and a point to not be stupid and hurt yourself.

You have unrealistic expectations of mankind.

[aurik]

There's more than one way to skin a cat, Sendoh.

You could accept that you're being a bit hypocritical when you bash on someone for engaging in a behavior that goes against your personal philosophy when you engage in it too. Or you could not bash on them.

As I said, it's up to you. I just find it ironic that you guys get all defensive when people point this hypocrisy out.

[Member #63]

I perfectly understand the main point of what people have said and where it has been derailed. I state my opinion, because it's my right to do so, I've said this before. What is drama? And yeah, I can agree with that quote, it's perfectly logical, but if I had money to burn and felt like buying just because, I would. People buy things because to some, having something material brings happiness or enjoyment, even if for a short time.

Imagine a situation, you bought a birthday baloon filled with helium, you know that after a while it will not float, yet you still bought it be it for yourself or you friend's birthday, w/e. Someone, a total stranger, stops you on the street and tells you that you are an idiot for buying helium filled baloon because it will not float after a while. How would you feel?

You have unrealistic expectations of mankind.

Nothing wrong with being hopeful.

[layoneil]

You could accept that you're being a bit hypocritical when you bash on someone for engaging in a behavior that goes against your personal philosophy when you engage in it too. Or you could not bash on them.

As I said, it's up to you. I just find it ironic that you guys get all defensive when people point this hypocrisy out.

i don't agree with your definition of being engaged in the activity. hypothetically speaking, working for a boss that beats his wife does not make me engaged in the activity of wife beating.

being in the alliance where it drops and someone else selling the item does not make you engaged in the activity of selling the item. as long as he doesn't engage in the activity, i fail to see hypocrisy.

[Xavier]

You could accept that you're being a bit hypocritical when you bash on someone for engaging in a behavior that goes against your personal philosophy when you engage in it too.

I still don't agree with your judgement on human behavior but if you want to get technical, I said it was gay to buy rare/ex items, at no point did I mention selling them. Having never bought rare/ex items, I don't see how you are finding fault with my statement.

Your statement implies that I engage in the purchasing of rare/ex items from other linkshells, which I don't.

[Member #63]

i don't agree with your definition of being engaged in the activity. hypothetically speaking, working for a boss that beats his wife does not make me engaged in the activity of wife beating.

It doesn't directly, but if you know he does and know that morally it's a wrong thing to do and is a punishable offence, than it's your obligation to do something about it. Notify authorities. If you're a coward to do so because of fear of losing your job, than that's just sad. What if he beats her so much that he kills her? Guess what, by knowing that he did and not taking action against it, that makes you an accessory to murder and is punishable crime.

[layoneil]

I perfectly understand the main point of what people have said and where it has been derailed. I state my opinion, because it's my right to do so, I've said this before. What is drama? And yeah, I can agree with that quote, it's perfectly logical, but if I had money to burn and felt like buying just because, I would. People buy things because to some, having something material brings happiness or enjoyment, even if for a short time.

Imagine a situation, you bought a birthday baloon filled with helium, you know that after a while it will not float, yet you still bought it be it for yourself or you friend's birthday, w/e. Someone, a total stranger, stops you on the street and tells you that you are an idiot for buying helium filled baloon because it will not float after a while. How would you feel?

obviously when i ask for proof you change the topic.

your balloon analogy is missing the part where you start a topic soliciting opinions about it. we didn't randomly make the topic about him buying a Hrotti, he did it himself.

if i were soliciting opinions about my balloon and i get a negative comment, than i brought it on myself. i might not be happy about it but i wouldn't place much blame on the people offering their opinion to a topic that i solicited.