Questions about Hrotti.

[aurik]

Fair enough. For the record, I think treating ra/ex stuff as a commodity is gay as hell too, and I don't hold any illusions that I can do anything about it.

almost all the time, the buyers seek us out, not the other way around. i know there's at least 2 people who expressed the interest to buy Wyrm Beards from us. and the price we charge is based on what buyers are offering.

i think selling bottled water is gay but supply and demand so whatever.

if everyone in the LS who wants it has it, what else can we do with it besides treat it as a commodity?

Well, the obvious answer is to drop it, or give it away for free like is the norm (to my knowledge) among NA shells on Asura.

Selling ra/ex faffy drops for linkshell gain and then turning around and criticising someone for buying ra/ex off FI just doesn't make sense to me.

As for holding anything over your head, Xavier, I'm not holding anything over your head. I'm just trying to explain why, from my point of view, you shouldn't be too shocked when people bring up your apparent hypocrisy.

[layoneil]

Well, the obvious answer is to drop it, or give it away for free like is the norm (to my knowledge) among NA shells on Asura.

drop it - see thread where BG gets grilled for wasting items.

give it away - scroll to some argument about people who get items while having done absolutely squat to earn it.

we're at a happy medium right now, there are some things we would and have given away and there are some things we do drop.

we don't hunt for buyers for every Ex item there is, just certain things that other people would also sell.

i can't argue which of the 3 actions is most gay, but they all are depending on your perspective, so we vary our LS position based on item and buyer.

[aurik]

I understand your position completely. No matter what you do, people are gonna complain.

Commoditizing ex items is still gay as hell in my opinion, and apparently I'm not alone in this :wink:

[berticus]

since it's come into question a lot throughout this thread, i'll try to clarify how we as an LS deal with rare/ex buying and selling

for selling rare/ex, we do it, but we draw the line at black belt + below. we dont sell aegis/ridill/hrotti, and our motivation behind not selling something like a dalmatica is of course that we aren't maxed, but if we were we wouldn't sell it for any amount of money.

for buying rare/ex, we leave it up to individual members. if someone wants to buy something rare/ex and another LS is willing to sell, we're not like "stop or you're kicked."

all in all for a lot of people, including me kinda, it's just a matter of angst in that we camp for stuff and put in the effort/execute the strategy while others just write a check for it. don't translate our opinions to policies though, FI claimed to do that and now theyre steaming mad all for nothing

[Daahan]

Xavier: If you think for a second, can you honestly blame someone for not being able to get to certain kingHNMs that drop certain items and gear?

Lets think about it this way.

Bob wants a Ridill, and SuperDuperLS is a LS that has gotten a Ridill for every member in their LS so now they offer to sell the Ridill's they get.

You say that endgame is cheated if Bob goes and buys a Ridill from SuperDuperLS.

Bob, however, is in a LS that doesn't have the time or people who are dedicated to camp Fafnir, but Bob is dedicated. Nevertheless, no one can solo Fafnir.

What are Bob's choices? I mean he wants this Ridill sooooo badly. Whether it's a neccesity or not, it's his game, his gil, his choice.

Well Bob can try getting in to BG, pretty much the only NA LS that is dedicated enough to camp it. But wait, BG isn't recruiting atm and/or Bob has some beef with a BG member so they aren't going to let him join anyway. That option is tossed out the window.

Another option is to try joining a JP LS that is dedicated to camping Fafnir to get the Ridill he wants so bad. Well, the JP just say "oooo JP ONRY" and Bob doesn't get in.

Another option is Bob can go all Rambo and try to solo Fafnir! Well, we'll all know how that turns out.

So Bob goes and buys the Ridill from SuperDuperLS. So how exactly did he cheat the endgame? If you ask me endgame has cheated him and so has many of the people that were involed in it (I'm not saying that BG or JP LS are at a wrong for rejecting Bob, but nevertheless the only means that he can get his Ridill are out of the picture).

So no, Bob does not cheat endgame. He got his money gathered up to buy the Ridill and he's happy. If he could've done it the other way I'm sure he could. I'm pretty sure most people who buy king items from other LSes are faced with similar problems, I can think of 6 who have done this off the top of my head.

[layoneil]

replace the word Ridill with Sex and you've defended every many who has ever paid for a prostitute.

i'm not against the selling of Ex items or prositution but i can see why some people might be.

there is one option that people who resort to this consider unacceptable, which is simply not owning the item (not having sex).

[Member #63]

The day this game causes me to have orgasms, is the day I declare I am celibate.

[Daahan]

replace the word Ridill with Sex and you've defended every many who has ever paid for a prostitute.

i'm not against the selling of Ex items or prositution but i can see why some people might be.

there is one option that people who resort to this consider unacceptable, which is simply not owning the item (not having sex).

but BG, JP LSes, and soloing (masturbation I guess) are not the only ways to get non-money involving consenting sex

[layoneil]

but BG, JP LSes, and soloing (masturbation I guess) are not the only ways to get non-money involving consenting sex

i'd say it depends on what server you're on 8)

[Member #63]

lol'ed in real

[Janeru]

So no, Bob does not cheat on his girlfriend. He got his money gathered up to buy the hooker and he's happy. If he could've done it the other way I'm sure he could. I'm pretty sure most people who buy prostitures from other vendors are faced with similar problems, I can think of 6 who have done this off the top of my head.

[Xavier]

If you ask me endgame has cheated him

Thats a really good point.

[Endo]

I understand all sides on this and honestly its BG and every other ls perogitive (sp?) on how they handle those items. I can tell you from a ls leaders point of view, especially one who has a ls that is so spread out across the world that it is very very frustrating trying to get the right amount of people to camp. As frustrating as it is though I cant expect these guys to log on at 3 AM their time to go camp a mob that we have 20% chance of beating FI and a 22% chance at beating BG (did anyone notice that fafnir had like 20 stuns go off on him and was still unclaimed on sunday). Its not BG's problem nor is it FI's but from my standpoint its frustrating trying to get certain items for people. So trust me if the items were offered up for sale then I would probably be a ls buying bb items amongst other things. Its easier for us to stay in sky and mess with popable mobs, sell the drops, get the fund up and send one person to the fafnir camp to try to buy the items.

Like Daahan said, I really would not consider that cheating end game, instead I would consider it a more viable alternative to getting my people the items they deserve. Your right we did camp the mob, but we also did work together to get the fund up as needed to get those items, and I don't think my monks are any less deserving then anyone else because we could not get the 18 people there to camp it (that was a run on sentence). I for one wish they would move the abj to the KS bc and let people go for them there as well. Then again they could always just add BETTER GOD DAMN END GAME CONTENT so ls like BG and FI have other things to do.

Again though its each ls perogative on what they do with the items. You did the camp, you got the kill, and you get to choose what to do with them. I just think you have to see other sides like Realm (although I would not buy shit from FI) who dont have the means to camp Faf, but he still wants the item. I don't think its plausible to say "Get a better ls" because even if bg was not succesful you still play together because you enjoy the other people, not the items.

[NynJa]

I for one wish they would move the abj to the KS bc and let people go for them there as well. Then again they could always just add BETTER GOD DAMN END GAME CONTENT so ls like BG and FI have other things to do.

Finally you see things through a god's eyes...

I think SE should put the abjus n shit there too. Its common knowledge that the KS99 fights *ARE* harder than their counterparts:
Fafnir doesnt fly from 75 to 25%.
KB has a perimeter to kite instead of a half circle.
Aspi doesnt cast waterga, silencega and all that fun shit.

For christ sakes SE, do away with the bullshit drops in KS99 (Libation Abjuration, FUCKING YAY) and throw in A.Bd, Ridill and what not in there. Unless you do virtually nothing in FFXI other than farm lowlow EP's, you wont get a stack of KS's in atleast a month.

[Xavier]

Its common knowledge that the KS99 fights *ARE* harder than their counterparts

Is that why they take 25-75% less time to beat than the actual 3 kings?

They have way less HP and take way more dmg. The Fafnir one is the most different from a tactical standpoint because you have to treat it like a CoP wyrm (kinda) instead of Faf. I agree that BC99 should drop ABJ, but they should make the BCs a lot harder if they do that.

[Lockecole]

Two things. SE enjoys watching us spend 75% of our fucking endgame on the three kings, and therefore keeping our monthly fee one extra month for the same goddamn reason.

Second thing. Its EX for a reason, and that's why SE made it that way. Might as well just put an AH up in Dragon's Aery if you're gonna start selling shit to people. Can't kill Fafnir? Then build an LS up like BG did, like my LS has, and acquire the "dedicated" people to do it.

You say your example is "dedicated", but to what? RMTing? Farming obscene amounts of gil, crafting? None of this is involved in the 3 Kings, and SE intended it to be that way. DEDICATION would be taking the time and effort to build an LS up, like 90% of us has, and to get the items that way, and kill Fafnir yourself. I camped Fafnir/Nid for 14-18 months (forget the exact time) before I got my ridill, and Hauberk. 40+ Fafnirs, 6 Nidhoggs. THAT's dedication.

Anyone else complains about not being able to get said item, they're not getting sympathy from me that's for sure.

[Endo]

Can't kill Fafnir? Then build an LS up like BG did, like my LS has, and acquire the "dedicated" people to do it.

It's not as easy as you make it seem. I for one refuse to "make" people show up at a camp. Its their game its their money monthly we do things that work with each others schedules.

You say your example is "dedicated", but to what? RMTing? Farming obscene amounts of gil, crafting?

How does enjoying a popable NM that you know you will have a chance to fight vs camping into the late hrs of night and "might" get claim have anything to do with dedication to rmt? Explain please

DEDICATION would be taking the time and effort to build an LS up, like 90% of us has, and to get the items that way, and kill Fafnir yourself.

Dedication is also understanding your peoples needs and making sure they can balance their rl along with your ls. I have all age's in my ls from a 14 year old kid to a 34 year old grown man. Its easier to sit on the sidelines and say "Well my ls is able to camp at 0300 in the morning" its harder to suck it up and realize that its just not possible for your ls. So a viable alternative is to work together as a ls and aquire the items for bb from other ls that CAN stay up all night everyday. Its not a diss to those that do, its a simple show that peoples lives are diffrent. So from what I have gathered you feel that since we can not gather enough people to go to a 0200 camp we have no dedication?

I camped Fafnir/Nid for 14-18 months (forget the exact time) before I got my ridill, and Hauberk. 40+ Fafnirs, 6 Nidhoggs. THAT's dedication.

Congrats what else have you accomplished in those 14-18 months?

[Xavier]

So a viable alternative is to work together as a ls and aquire the items for bb from other ls that CAN stay up all night everyday.

What linkshells do is their own business and far be it for me to put in my 2 cents (which I'm about to do, sorry), but just to clarify that statement, your linkshells plan is to farm gil and buy items rather than camp them?

[Endo]

So a viable alternative is to work together as a ls and aquire the items for bb from other ls that CAN stay up all night everyday.

What linkshells do is their own business and far be it for me to put in my 2 cents (which I'm about to do, sorry), but just to clarify that statement, your linkshells plan is to farm gil and buy items rather than camp them?

No it was a generalized statment that I made my own to better relate the information.

Humor me though and pretend that was our plan what do you find so terribly wrong with it? Again its each ls own business no?

[Lordwafik]

So a viable alternative is to work together as a ls and aquire the items for bb from other ls that CAN stay up all night everyday.

What linkshells do is their own business and far be it for me to put in my 2 cents (which I'm about to do, sorry), but just to clarify that statement, your linkshells plan is to farm gil and buy items rather than camp them?

No it was a generalized statment that I made my own to better relate the information.

Humor me though and pretend that was our plan what do you find so terribly wrong with it? Again its each ls own business no?

keekeeekeee

Isnt that kinda like selling an osode, and then using that gil to buy a few vermillion cloaks? I mean, Im sure the damascene cloths werent camped, vermies were just bought off someone who just fought and killed the mob/bcnm.