Questions about Hrotti.

[Blazer]

The problem with buying abjs, especially body abjs, is that there's no real accomplishment put into it. Do you really get the same satisfaction by buying Hrotti,Riddil, Defending Ring, Abj Bodies and other rare/ex items dropped by incredibly tough monsters built to challenge the hearts of those who wish and are willing. What gives off a better feeling as you walk around with whatever equip you have?

- My LS has reached a new level, honed(sp) its skills and finally was lucky enough to claim and defeat (insert NM here) and this piece of equip I proudly wear is a symbol of our accomplishment.

or

- My LS prefers to raise money by farming popable HNM that by now a insanely tame by many standards and simply buy equipment from those who camp (insert NM here) because those people are dedicated to it. I wear this piece with pride because my LS has spend the time and effort to raise the gil to buy these equips.

Sorry if that sounds assholish but what is even the point of having "End Game" equipment if you're not using them for the "End Game"?

I fully understand you Endo and you don't want to force people to camp and wish for your ls to enjoy the game on their own. However, can you really say buying a major Item dropped by an incredibly hard HNM is worth as much as your ls working together, perfecting strategies, and claiming and defeating an HNM?

In my opinion, that is much like robbing you and your ls of the experience and the sure thrill of such an accomplishment.

I still remember our first nidhogg which dropped Joft's Dalmatica, and I doubt I'd ever forget how it felt to have risen to such a challenge.

People should always rise to the challenge not take the easy way out.

I know you wanted a response from Xavier Endo, but I just wanted my two cents in this one 8)

[Gafgarionn]

Meh, some people are still happy pimping themselves out by RMTing. Kinda the same thing.
"Yay, I farmed for a month and I finally got a Scorpion Harness"
or,
"Yay, just spent fifty bucks, and now I finally have my Scorpion Harness"

Some people would rather just have the gear than earn it and feel the satisfaction from all the work paying off.

[Endo]

Yes you are right blazer and I fully agree with you, as far as my own personal ls goes, but I was more relating the fact of realm and some others argument which does hold some weight. Like I said in my first post, both arguments have clear cut facts as to why or why not to support the idea. I mean it would really really piss me off if FI claimed Nid against us and just sold the body, but I could not hate the player, nor judge him and say he is wrong because he bought it. Of course his accomplishment in my eyes is watered down, but to him (maybe the casual player, does not have an end game ls, or does not want to be involved) its what he wanted, and he is ok with that. I am just making the point that to judge another because they dont believe in the same rules as you do is being closed minded. Yeah I think Realm should not have bought it and I think he wasted his gilz, but I cant place judgment because he obviously felt he was doing the ethical thing when he did it.

As far as calling BG 2 faced or whatever thats not a very fair or accurate statement either. Its kinda like the US govt, you have the republicans who like it and the democrats who hate it and each is allowed to form their own judgments about an issue. Regardless of how they feel as a whole they do whats best for the country, but they are still entitled to individual beliefs.

People should always rise to the challenge not take the easy way out.

But what if that is NOT an option for that player? Should he be completly denied the ability to make his pld look amazing simply because he does not have a ls, or can not put the time in necessary to have a steady string of camps? I do agree that this probably breeds rmt, but over looking that fact does it really give anyone the right to oppose his decision, because simply put it was his decision. He hurt nobody else while doing it.

Disclaimer: My ls does NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT plan on doing that. It was just me seeing a side of an argument, while boring myself with ethics class, and arguing the opposite point. Inteligent and non flaming posts dont happen all that much here but when they happen its really fun :wink:

[Okan]

But what if that is NOT an option for that player? Should he be completly denied the ability to make his pld look amazing simply because he does not have a ls, or can not put the time in necessary to have a steady string of camps? I do agree that this probably breeds rmt, but over looking that fact does it really give anyone the right to oppose his decision, because simply put it was his decision. He hurt nobody else while doing it.

Disclaimer: My ls does NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT plan on doing that. It was just me seeing a side of an argument, while boring myself with ethics class, and arguing the opposite point. Inteligent and non flaming posts dont happen all that much here but when they happen its really fun

This is why I've sent about 3 suggestions to SE about adding alternate mobs that drop the R/E items people desire from the 3 kings. The wyrms doesn't drop R/E so whatever. I mean, face it... You might not care to do end game, but you might want to wear that Koenig abjurations because they're useful. While you might not be tanking Kirin, Tiamat, or Omega Proto, you might still tank some other things that will put it to use, no?

[DrObvious]

But what if that is NOT an option for that player? Should he be completly denied the ability to make his pld look amazing simply because he does not have a ls, or can not put the time in necessary to have a steady string of camps? I do agree that this probably breeds rmt, but over looking that fact does it really give anyone the right to oppose his decision, because simply put it was his decision. He hurt nobody else while doing it.

Then that aspect of endgame probably isn't for you. If you want to attain every item in the game and overcome every mosnter then you should join/create a linkshell that has the means to do so. It's not like there's some mandate where you have to get every piece of rare gear. If you can, more power to you. If you can't, there are lots of people who still have fun in this game without them.

[Xavier]

Do you really get the same satisfaction by buying Hrotti,Riddil, Defending Ring, Abj Bodies and other rare/ex items dropped by incredibly tough monsters built to challenge the hearts of those who wish and are willing.

I LOLed really hard at that one Blazer.

I guess my argument or logic on that would be that most casual players wouldn't care about endgame items and would be content in their AH gear in Lower Jeuno. Most hardcore people wouldn't need to buy the item because they'd be in linkshells that'd be competitive and camping it. I guess by default, since endgame is so limited in FFXI, there has to be a middle group that gets shafted and either doesn't get what they want or does through money.

I hope Square does something to balance that out in the future.

[Okan]

But what if that is NOT an option for that player? Should he be completly denied the ability to make his pld look amazing simply because he does not have a ls, or can not put the time in necessary to have a steady string of camps? I do agree that this probably breeds rmt, but over looking that fact does it really give anyone the right to oppose his decision, because simply put it was his decision. He hurt nobody else while doing it.

Then that aspect of endgame probably isn't for you. If you want to attain every item in the game and overcome every mosnter then you should join/create a linkshell that has the means to do so. It's not like there's some mandate where you have to get every piece of rare gear. If you can, more power to you. If you can't, there are lots of people who still have fun in this game without them.

To piggy back on that:
I'm in a very accomplished HNM LS on Unicorn. Now the problem with these 24hr HNMs is that... Exactly.. They spawn ONCE A FUCKING DAY. And that "once" usually happens to be while I am at work. Not that I really care for any abjuration for my WHM, I'd like to get some for another job I am leveling. You're all going to laugh, but I'd love to have a Ridill in a couple months when my BST is level 70 or Adaman hauberk... But HOW do I do that considering that when I have to work late hours. But with so little pop times and so many people that are "in line" before me... I'd never fucking obtain it. I don't want a Dalmatica. It's trash. I don't want any other Zenith. Who in their right minds would give a Ridill or E. Bd to a BST over that DRK or WAR that is there? While my LS can quickly kill Fafnir and Nidhoggs, we don't get the chance because of cheaters who make claim nearly every time. When we do make that rare occassional win, it's just not enough of them to keep the "supply" down for the abjurations.

[Epical]

God, the claws are coming out in this one. Good read, though. /thumbsup

[Okan]

Ok, now that it's been a few minutes, how many laughed about me saying I'd like a ridill and E body for BST? Probably everyone. I chuckled a little myself. Why? It's rather different giving these items to a job that no one really cares about. That is why I am saying that SE should add alternate (BC of course) ways of obtaining all these.

[DrObvious]

Obviously a war would get more use out of a ridill than a bst, but a bst/nin should do fine with it too. I don't see a problem with a bst wanting a ridill.

No ls in their right mind is gonna give something like ridill or adaman body to an outsider though, so this situation is not like paying another ls for hrotti.

[Okan]

Obviously a war would get more use out of a ridill than a bst, but a bst/nin should do fine with it too. I don't see a problem with a bst wanting a ridill.

No ls in their right mind is gonna give something like ridill or adaman body to an outsider though, so this situation is not like paying another ls for hrotti.

They would and do on Unicorn if the right LS gets the claim. They've basically had solo run of Fafnir and Nidhogg for two years. Minus losing a couple claims, they had almost all of them. While you're right that a BST/NIN dual wielding axe/ridill will be near as effective as an WAR in weapon PTs (Not as much but they can do damage) the LS will put the BST as lowest priority for ANY "cool" item like that to drop. Search your server. How many BST have Ridill, E body, or Osode (Without buying) and that's their ONLY 70+ job that can wear... Not like they have WAR and DRK at 75 too.

[Lockecole]

While you're right that a BST/NIN dual wielding axe/ridill will be near as effective as an WAR in weapon PTs

LOL. Anyway...BST should be using Woody-Juggy-Man/Temperance Axe now, and Temperance axe is MUCH easier to get, it being a 100% drop off of a pretty easy to pop Jailer. Oh wait, you need people in sea.. I guess thats too hard to get too? When will you people realize that SOME THINGS IN THIS GAME TAKE EFFORT.

[Fira]

We got 20mil for a Wyrm Beard. >_>

[berticus]

mother of christ

[Endo]

We got 20mil for a Wyrm Beard. >_>

[Hawky]

We got 20mil for a Wyrm Beard. >_>

Must have been the same guy who paid 10 mil or so for the egg

[Endo]

While you're right that a BST/NIN dual wielding axe/ridill will be near as effective as an WAR in weapon PTs

LOL. Anyway...BST should be using Woody-Juggy-Man/Temperance Axe now, and Temperance axe is MUCH easier to get, it being a 100% drop off of a pretty easy to pop Jailer. Oh wait, you need people in sea.. I guess thats too hard to get too? When will you people realize that SOME THINGS IN THIS GAME TAKE EFFORT.

When will you realize that not all people are the same and noone has designated you 1337 enough to pass judgment on others? I am still waiting for your responce to my post on the last page. I think I remember about 18 months ago "You need to have a thf in your party if you have a nin because nin cant hold hate as well as a pld". Even the jp parties all made sure they had a thf with their nin. As you can see things change and people adapt and overcome.

Also last time I checked KI, I was in the sky portion of the boards. Under it they had all the gods listed and then kirin, and not one place did I see Lockecole listed as a popable or non popable god. So as you read this and get pissed because I am accusing you of having an elitist attitude, think about how you pass judgments on others for the last two of your posts.

[Lockecole]

Ok, I didnt think it was worth it to reply, as I didnt wanna further my "elitist attitude" (yes.. not possible someone just knows more about the game.. they are automatically "elitist.")

Quote:
[quote:39310]Can't kill Fafnir? Then build an LS up like BG did, like my LS has, and acquire the "dedicated" people to do it.

It's not as easy as you make it seem. I for one refuse to "make" people show up at a camp. Its their game its their money monthly we do things that work with each others schedules.[/quote:39310]

Then getting drops from HNMs that take that coordination, sacrifice, and dedication between 12-18 people is NOT for you. So stay out of their treasure pool. You've mistaken, yes Im not saying its easy.. the whole thing Im implying is that its difficult, but POSSIBLE as long as you put forth the effort. You don't MAKE people go to camps, people understand it is a group effort and for one to profit all must make sacrifices.

[quote:39310]Quote:
You say your example is "dedicated", but to what? RMTing? Farming obscene amounts of gil, crafting?

How does enjoying a popable NM that you know you will have a chance to fight vs camping into the late hrs of night and "might" get claim have anything to do with dedication to rmt? Explain please [/quote:39310]

Ask ANYONE who camps HNMs... any member in BG.. any member in my LS, that if buying an abjuration was an option we wouldnt take it. Its the thrill of the kill and of earning the item as the game intended, that makes having that item worthwhile. I'm merely stating that even if your example is dedicated, it is in no way the dedication that will eventually lead you to a RA/EX item from an HNM. You're headed in the totally wrong direction.

[quote:39310]Quote:
DEDICATION would be taking the time and effort to build an LS up, like 90% of us has, and to get the items that way, and kill Fafnir yourself.

Dedication is also understanding your peoples needs and making sure they can balance their rl along with your ls. I have all age's in my ls from a 14 year old kid to a 34 year old grown man. Its easier to sit on the sidelines and say "Well my ls is able to camp at 0300 in the morning" its harder to suck it up and realize that its just not possible for your ls. So a viable alternative is to work together as a ls and aquire the items for bb from other ls that CAN stay up all night everyday. Its not a diss to those that do, its a simple show that peoples lives are diffrent. So from what I have gathered you feel that since we can not gather enough people to go to a 0200 camp we have no dedication?
[/quote:39310]

HNMs, and the HNM scene including its items is NOT for you at this present time if you're in the situation you are in. That's as simple as I can put it. I myself face the fact that there's parts of this game I will never see, items I will never get... and I dont try and find alternate ways to obtain them.

[quote:39310]Quote:
I camped Fafnir/Nid for 14-18 months (forget the exact time) before I got my ridill, and Hauberk. 40+ Fafnirs, 6 Nidhoggs. THAT's dedication.

Congrats what else have you accomplished in those 14-18 months?
[/quote:39310]

Leveled 3 jobs to 75. Finished Sky, Sea, all 10 Bastok Missions. Have experienced and killed 90% of all HNMs in this game, amongst being a Dynamis-Xarcabard Interloper, and am part of one of the strongest HNMLS on all of Siren server. Did I miss anything? If you're implying its all I did, you're wrong, as the HNM scene is not as much of a slave-driving environment as everyone makes it out to be.

I don't get what your NIN and THF comment is about.. only people who didnt understand what the NIN job was capable of, and underestimated its ability to hold hate through not realizing all of the potential ways to hold hate as a NIN did that. Trust me... 1 >> 75 I never used/needed a THF as NIN, its not neccesary. People's perspective on things changed, the facts of how a NIN could hold hate never did.

I don't see how "adapting to things and overcoming them" has anything to do with the subject at hand. I merely stated a fact, that an E skill weapon will pale in comparison to Temperance Axe, and implied that a BST wouldnt touch a WAR's potential in damage in an XP PT due to obvious reasons.

Basically when it comes down to it people want things easy... they want things not the way they were intended. Thus is the American way. And at any point I won't accept someones opinion due to them feeling they dont have that option to obtain an item, because they're insulting the people who did take the time and effort to do it the right way.

[Genosync]

[quote:41027]Quote:
I camped Fafnir/Nid for 14-18 months (forget the exact time) before I got my ridill, and Hauberk. 40+ Fafnirs, 6 Nidhoggs. THAT's dedication.

Congrats what else have you accomplished in those 14-18 months?

Leveled 3 jobs to 75. Finished Sky, Sea, all 10 Bastok Missions. Have experienced and killed 90% of all HNMs in this game, amongst being a Dynamis-Xarcabard Interloper, and am part of one of the strongest HNMLS on all of Siren server. Did I miss anything? If you're implying its all I did, you're wrong, as the HNM scene is not as much of a slave-driving environment as everyone makes it out to be.[/quote:41027]

I'm pretty sure he meant,

What did you accomplish in real life?

as opposed to random other crap in the game.

[Lockecole]

Sorry, I assumed since we were in a FFXI Discussion Forum, thats would be what we would be referancing to in our replies. Silly me.