Your server's understood rules about HNMs and randoming?

[Okan]

Here's a question though. We had a fun incident at KB last night on Unicorn too. Without pointing names or saying LS names (I don't want to cause drama so if you're in any LS, don't go trying to defend. They don't know your LS.)

LS A claims KB with only 6 members. Speaking later to a friend in that LS, they had 2 members and gave up right away with KB claim. They wanted NQ for hides.
LS B sort of steals, but not so much. LS A didn't care either way.

LS C does steal from LS B and panicking mid fight call for help. I don't think either LS B or C had a chance if they had a legit claim anyway. LS A could have killed had they members available.

During this 40 minute debacle of Call For Help, KB goes Super and starts raping everyone.

LS D was there at start and LS E was already making their way at start (This part is open to debate. Some say "We were in entrance to Behemoth's Dominion," others say "We had 6 people"). Anyway, LS A and LS D random excluding LS E. Another note that should be added is the LS D is infamous for using 3rd party applications to claim and fight HNMs. When they had mog house, some members used that, claim bots, speed tools, warp hack, etc.

LS D wins random and LS A shrugs it off. Well, LS E asked to be included in random and is told "No". So they said fine. LS E claims KB as soon as Call For Help wears (Sadly, rage mode did not) and kill him anyway. Now of course LS D is pissed because that was "their" KB they won random for...

Now, what would you think as complete outsiders? LS D calls LS E an HNM Thief LS. Fine. But I guess I missed the memo where LS D suddenly turned legit and followed rules.

Ahh the mighty Okan forgot to mention

LS A had 6 members (2 were afk) and were allowed to random with LS D(whom won the random.)

LS E was not allowed to random because "they did not have the numbers to kill kb during spwan" then why random with LS A that had 6 members then? LS E decides to tell them fuck off and claim when cfh came off. Who is at fault? oO

Well, I did mention that first part. Secondly, I'm not trying to start a flame war here either. I did and done that. No more. But you do bring up a good point. If LS A didn't have enough to kill at pop, why did they exclude LS E still?

[Raineer]

Rage mechanics explained as followed.

Initial LS claims, anyone in that ally who has hate on any of the members of that alliance, or on Fafhogg itself, will have to die/zone before timer is reset. You cure anyone in that alliance, you have hate on Fafhogg. One of our PLDs accidentally Cured a PLD in the other ally while trying to cure someone else and when the other LS wiped, he came right for our PLD, the RDM who refreshed our PLD and our BRD who ballad'ed him.

So being in the original ally isn't all you need, being on his hate list whatsoever means YOU MUST DIE OR GTFO before he's going back to normal. Easiest way to determine this is when you see the small period of time when a mob has no aggro, he will pause for the slightest second or two, as if he's confused, that is when timer has reset. It's pretty easy to determine with Fafhogg.. as when he does have hate on someone he runs around like a fucking maniac.

Hope this will help in the future to stop any future drama. Hey... a man can try.

An Idiot knows how rage mechanics work, he is just using it as an excuse because he fucked up and doesnt wanna look bad for intentionally KS and CFH'ing a mob.

Hey that'll be a nice question in the interview
Rooster : How the hell dont you know how rage mechanics work, arent you like number 1 LS on Asura? wtf mate?
Tiberion : <.>

I have firsthand experience that directly contradicts this.

At Roc like a month ago:

LS A claims Roc. Random member of LS B KS's (or something, hard to say) Roc, but then gives it back... (So obviously, this person is on the hate list of Roc).

Time passes, Roc goes into SSJ mode and starts raping ally A. People from ally A run off in different directions. Roc first chasses down the people running to Jeuno and kills them off, then chases down the people running the other direction and kills them of.

We figured we could just stay around the person that KS'd Roc in the first place (who hadn't logged off or anything) and eventually Roc would return, rape his ass, and leave SSJ mode. Much to our suprise, LS B claims Roc while its returning to finish off the person that KS'd it, and it was out of SSJ mode.

So, WTF? How did it leave SSJ mode? I dunno, but it definitely did.

ehh... Really that's hard to say on a HNM that's allowed to run all over a zone and doesn't have a draw-in ability. Never know when you might be able to leave the hate list just by getting far enough away. I would say Locke's post matches the way it works.

[Jaysensen]

The linkshells who didn't kill call Outspoken thieves. <3Kujata

I forgot that:

5) Everyone whine and bitch
6) Everyone call everyone else thieves
7) Bitch on forums somewhere

We suck.

[Starfire]

on Ramuh most HNM LS's call help then the other LS's do /random and the highest random gets to kill after it is 100% HP, if they lose the next highest gets to try... it usually works pritty good

[Dariel]

I feel bad for those of you who have to deal with this on other servers. The /random system on Bahamut, especially for Fafnir/Nidhogg, is respected by all the top linkshells. I don't think much major drama has occurred for a long time because everyone in the top groups keeps it civil, and we all know we're individually capable of beating the NM. No one has to steal at 10% in order to win.

[Okan]

Well, the big issue with Unicorn is there are 4 "top" HNM LS. Bonkurarz, Fortune, Pxtzle and Wabo. I did not include RiOT and Offline because they've only made about 2 camps ever and have done mostly sky so far. (From what I hear, that will be changing soon anyway.)

On to the point. One particular LS has been known and proven to use 3rd party applications to make nearly 100% claim rates on any king. The JP LS makes hardly any any more, but they do here and there. So thus because of these incidents, and having been proven to use bots, that LS no longer tries to hide and and nearly have about 7-8 people at the camp running the bot.

Now because they have had the most claims, they think they run the server and can decide who can and can not random. The incident above was one such. They let the LS that made the claim and wipe make a random, but the two other LS who had more people at time of spawn where not allowed. They only threw their fit that Wabo "stole" their King Behemoth because they had won the random against the other LS.

[nicholai]

i believe most of the recent claims by fortune were by non hackers i know gestahl claimed at least one and i'am positive he doesnt hack. Its alot about timing now, you wouldnt know cuase you havnt made a camp since the update So stop saying everyone hacks cause you dont know for sure who does and doesnt every day and you dont even make most camps cause of work, not that i go to camps anymore either But if your going to say you dont wanna start drama stop saying things like PS LS D USES BOTS KEKE because most people know that your talkin about fortune by now if they have read any of your posts

[Okan]

i believe most of the recent claims by fortune were by non hackers i know gestahl claimed at least one and i'am positive he doesnt hack. Its alot about timing now, you wouldnt know cuase you havnt made a camp since the update So stop saying everyone hacks cause you dont know for sure who does and doesnt every day and you dont even make most camps cause of work, not that i go to camps anymore either But if your going to say you dont wanna start drama stop saying things like PS LS D USES BOTS KEKE because most people know that your talkin about fortune by now if they have read any of your posts

Nich, you're my buddy and all, but you got something left on your lip...

[Rotsu]

Off topic, just wanted to clear things with okan. The LSs that were allowded to random at that day were Bonk, Offline, RIOT and Fortune. Wabo had only 3 ppl when KB poped, one of those 3 isnt even in wabo( this is according to Nestae) and thats why you were excluded from the random. Riot ignored my tells, bonk decided to retreat and Offline randomed with us. We won the random.

You guys didnt care about all that and just took it when it turned yellow.

[Okan]

And as I stated Rotsu, Bonk made claim and technically wiped. You still allowed them a chance at randoming. That is what confuses me.

[Pestilent]

Not everyone is as interested in the drama that goes on on your server Okan -- you asked your question now don't try to cause more drama than nessesary.
I understand your desire to see people "put in their place" by having people say that you were right in doing what you did, so let's just get it over with:

Okan you and your LS were probably right in whatever you did and I'm sure you were unfairly treated by all linkshells A through Z.

Now can you take the drama somewhere else?

edit: typo

[Rotsu]

And as I stated Rotsu, Bonk made claim and technically wiped. You still allowed them a chance at randoming. That is what confuses me.

They didnt wipe, they got mpked. They had 8 ppl in there while you guys had only 2.

[freja]

Why should an ls adhere to random rules when they are excluded from randoms?

Even if they weren't all there, if they are ready by the time the fighting ls is about to die, and they see that other ls's are randoming, and they're excluded, then sure, many ls's in that position would simply try to claim.

[NynJa]

ok, rules on my server apparently changed...

now, when you lose claim on faf or nid, you gather up your entire shell and do everything possible to lag the LS that claimed it out.
This includes:
Standing on top of them
casting barspells
singing songs



oh, and also, only this will happen on my server:
Person A claims Alky
Person B steals Alky, and gets drop
Person C, who is friends with Person A, but in different HNMLS's, claims and kills KB, and person B asks for the Tongue.





<3 Gilgamesh

[Orion2003]

Why should an ls adhere to random rules when they are excluded from randoms?

Even if they weren't all there, if they are ready by the time the fighting ls is about to die, and they see that other ls's are randoming, and they're excluded, then sure, many ls's in that position would simply try to claim.

Logic is flawed here because we all know when a King pops everyone and their mother knows about it. It's unfair for the linkshells who stood there full force to camp while people who'd I'd deem scavengers show up just in order to steal try and reap the benefits. It's amazing how when chaos arises at a HNM camp how many people pop up out of the blue for their shot to add to the chaos.

Imo priority should be given to the ls who actually showed up and intended to kill the HQ. If we start going by linkshells who just send a couple of people then what's stopping everyone from just parking couple people @ camp just in order to random for claim, when we all know if they actually did claim they'd wipe in a matter of minutes.

[freja]

Yes in a perfect society we'd have that case, but there is no rules in ffxi besides the made up ones that govern the linkshells in these chaotic camps.

Now there are some rules you can probably get most linkshells to adhere to. Such as "please don't claim an HNM while another linkshell is fighting it". But a linkshell that wants to claim an HNM when another wipes, regardless of whether they were there camping the entire time or not, is not something that can be prevented.

No linkshell with a full force capable of killing the HNM, whether they were late or not, is going to say "ok chaps, we're good enough to kill this boss fight but the other linkshell here says that since we were late, we don't get to random. Let's pack it up and go back to Jeuno". They're going to attempt to claim, and kill. Let's say this linkshell is at least willing to random, you might as well cut them in on the random to avoid the chaos.

Most linkshells only adhere to the unwritten rules because they're concerned about their reputation. But attempting to claim an HNM when another linkshell wipes probably won't hurt their reputation, and they can even claim the victim by saying that they were wrongfully excluded from the random, so they decided to take matters into their own hands. Yes, this sucks for the linkshells that were there camping the whole time, but it's not something easily prevented in other ways.

EDIT: I may be talking out of my ass here, since I don't have too much experience with randoming. Randoming is almost non-existant on our server, my linkshell participated in a few many months ago, but the past few months of camping HNMs, nobody ever offers to random anymore.

[Raineer]

Logic is flawed here because we all know when a King pops everyone and their mother knows about it. It's unfair for the linkshells who stood there full force to camp while people who'd I'd deem scavengers show up just in order to steal try and reap the benefits. It's amazing how when chaos arises at a HNM camp how many people pop up out of the blue for their shot to add to the chaos.

Imo priority should be given to the ls who actually showed up and intended to kill the HQ. If we start going by linkshells who just send a couple of people then what's stopping everyone from just parking couple people @ camp just in order to random for claim, when we all know if they actually did claim they'd wipe in a matter of minutes.

/begins the slow clap.

[Cantide]

Midgard Voke/MPK Fest > *

[Rotsu]

Logic is flawed here because we all know when a King pops everyone and their mother knows about it. It's unfair for the linkshells who stood there full force to camp while people who'd I'd deem scavengers show up just in order to steal try and reap the benefits. It's amazing how when chaos arises at a HNM camp how many people pop up out of the blue for their shot to add to the chaos.

Imo priority should be given to the ls who actually showed up and intended to kill the HQ. If we start going by linkshells who just send a couple of people then what's stopping everyone from just parking couple people @ camp just in order to random for claim, when we all know if they actually did claim they'd wipe in a matter of minutes.

/begins the slow clap.

We had that going on unicorn for the very long time( 8months?), untill recently.

[Rawk]

We should have a set rule that only 4 LSes can kill kings and the others get GM jailed for claiming >.>