FFXI zone visual design and PS2(?)

[berticus]

im not confusing the two, im saying that it's a shame to have all that talent constrained by ps2

i know that trashing ps2 is completely out of the question, but what im wondering is if there's a workaround. i remember in one eq expansion verant updated the graphics engine, but the specs were so high that they made it an option whether to display old or new graphics. something that simple doesnt seem like it would work here because of the non-visual things like the storage space issue and other memory things, but couldnt there be some way?

[Ravidrath]

You COULD do that, but it would cost a lot of money to update the game for what is probably a smaller percentage of the population than you realize. And they're already working on the follow-up game, so I seems unlikely they'd decide to divert resources from that into updating this game.

And how long had EQ been out before Kunark was released? I'm pretty certain it was a good year or two longer than this game has been out in Japan before they got their first graphic update, and the difference was more pronounced than you'd likely get from an update here.

Really, though, I think this game is still pretty solid, technically. The models are comparable or higher poly than models in other games and the animation is better. The main things it's lacking, technically, are shader support and more texture memory. While shaders could add some nice touches, there are still too many video cards out there that don't support them to do a full-on shaderization of the game. Even WoW has purely token shader support, using it just for water and grass specularity.

Addressing the texture issue would mean making two or more versions of every texture for different resolutions that you'd probably have to download with every update. Not only would this cost them a lot of money for little benefit in production, it would also extend everyone's download times.

As much as I would like to see some "problem" textures get updated, like the sky in Riverne, it's not a big deal to me and I'd rather they spent their effort doing something more important.

[Judah]

someone said on vent earlier today: "I didn't know Bert played WoW."..

and i said:

how the fuck does he have time to play WoW?

I will never suck BG cock- - - but thats impressive.

[bercus]

I think the next expansion will bring what you are looking for Bert.
At least a bit, maybe weather changes, dont know yet.

http://www.rpgfan.com/pics/ff11-toau/ss-005.jpg
http://www.rpgfan.com/pics/ff11-toau/ss-006.jpg
http://www.rpgfan.com/pics/ff11-toau/ss-007.jpg
http://www.rpgfan.com/pics/ff11-toau/ss-008.jpg
http://www.rpgfan.com/pics/ff11-toau/ss-009.jpg

[Volt]

I agree that SE needs to kick up the art, but, untill people bring it up (and by people, I mean the JP) they'll continue as it is, because people will pay for it.

Now, since linking the pictures as:

[img]http://www.members.shaw.ca/voltfest/3.jpg[/img]

Yeah, doesn't work for me ( on my side anyways ) SO--- You assholes can click on the links \(^-^)/

There are some good parts of WoW, and, some bad.

Good parts: YAY GRAPHICS ( sorta...) More of.. a vast pallet of diffrent colors, with very little artistic skill. Blockey charecters and such, but, they made it work, and made it work well.

The world is freekin huge- I like exploring.

Alot of stuff you can do solo
Alot of stuff you NEED a group for.

Bad things about WoW: NO FUCKING COMMUNITY - People leave 'partys' instantly if they get sand in their pussy or their toes get cold.

So, many, fucking, shitfaced dumbasses play WoW. 9/10 players can't form sentences that have atleast one word with more than one syllable. Now, that being said, I'm really not one to talk, due to my HORRIABLE spelling. (go me \(^_^)/)

I don't know. They made a good game, but somhow the sence of community just didn't seed. If people had reputation, honor, ect ect, it would be a much better game IMO.

Now--------- For the good stuff

VOLTFESTS SCREENSHOTS GO!


http://www.members.shaw.ca/voltfest/3.jpg

http://www.members.shaw.ca/voltfest/2.jpg

http://www.members.shaw.ca/voltfest/Ohburn.jpg

http://www.members.shaw.ca/voltfest/7.jpg

http://www.members.shaw.ca/voltfest/6.jpg

http://www.members.shaw.ca/voltfest/5.jpg

http://www.members.shaw.ca/voltfest/4.jpg

[Zigma]

I think the next expansion will bring what you are looking for Bert.
At least a bit, maybe weather changes, dont know yet.

[img]http://www.rpgfan.com/pics/ff11-toau/ss-005.jpg[/i
[img]http://www.rpgfan.com/pics/ff11-toau/ss-006.jpg[/i
[img]http://www.rpgfan.com/pics/ff11-toau/ss-007.jpg[/i
[img]http://www.rpgfan.com/pics/ff11-toau/ss-008.jpg[/i
[img]http://www.rpgfan.com/pics/ff11-toau/ss-009.jpg[/i

TeamspeakZigma: How much you wanna bet the expansion does not look nearly as good as that when it comes out
TeamspeakVoltfest: (smirkish laugh) how much you wanna bet that's just CG for when you install the game.
TeamspeakZigma: *Small Laugh*

[Ryany]

FFXI wasted all their good designs with BS level capped areas or areas that serve little purpose to the end game.

[Malign]

2 favorite things about wow.


#1 jumping


#2 swimming



its amazing how these 2 things can add the feeling of interaction and depth to an area.


seriously.. if you;ve never dove off a damn into the river a couple hundred feet below to escape a couple of angry dwarves (and a gnome iirc) you just dont know what you're missing.

[RustyMetal]

http://www.members.shaw.ca/voltfest/Ohburn.jpg

Who ever took that screen, is about to get dropped in 2 seconds. Its like the jailer of love vs a lvl1.

What Malign said is also true, when I played wow.... god that was fun. Like go to stormwind and jump of that -huge- ledge into some water to get out of the city. Yup I did that every time i pass that ledge.


I also get the odd feeling that the new zones wont look that good as the screens.

[Kiro]

All this talk about jumping off cliffs makes me want to go play WoW, too bad I don't have it. ; ;

[Zigma]

http://www.members.shaw.ca/voltfest/Ohburn.jpg

Who ever took that screen, is about to get dropped in 2 seconds. Its like the jailer of love vs a lvl1.

What Malign said is also true, when I played wow.... god that was fun. Like go to stormwind and jump of that -huge- ledge into some water to get out of the city. Yup I did that every time i pass that ledge.


I also get the odd feeling that the new zones wont look that good as the screens.

LOL that's voltfest. He went up to it on mount and got off and shot it lol

[Member #63]

Kinda like in Resident Evil 4, at the start of the game you're at some spanishesque village, and near the end of the game, you're at a german-death-sex-cult-manifest type of place, mobs are different, environment is different, you're like "Wow I've gotten all the way here" , and you dont notice the immediate change. You dont notice the environment has turned from 1 to the other, it was done subtly.

Wafik, you asshole. I just bought it yesterday for PS2. Way to ruin it.

[layoneil]

if you go to certain parts of Zi'tah, Lufaise Meadows, even La Theine Plateau you can get screenshots like the ones they've been posting for the next expansion.

one major problem is you have to turn all the graphical effects, animations and other settings to the max.

which for most people who read these forums means you will never claim another NM again in your FFXI career.

i use to have my graphical stats maxed out, than i joined BG and until a few weeks ago i forgot competely that the wings on damselflies actually moved.

i also stop a lot less to look at stuff because i'm always going somewhere to do something.

[Kisamoo]

What I found silly is that for areas like say.. Fei'yin. There was a part of it that you had to go through the basement to get to. Yet the only obstable was a floor only an inch off the ground. This one inch high floor causes you to make an epic journey through the basement, and around to get to. Btw, bets say the area in the first of the screen's Bercus posted, 90% generic tunnels. The 3rd screen in-game cinema and the last screenshots you'll notice a little ridge that stops you from walking in the shrubbery and grasses.

[rahskala]

IMO, the strength of FFXI's graphics are the landscape, and the vistas you see on a larger scale, rather than the smaller details. It's true (and very unfortunate) that whatever the artists want to do is going to be crippled by the fixed limits of the PS2, but there are still a few places where I stop and think, "Wow, that looks nice."

A few examples:
http://www.control-v.net/screens/ffx...ve_sunrise.jpg http://www.control-v.net/screens/ffx...b.tavnazia.jpg http://www.control-v.net/screens/ffx...1-42-56-78.jpg http://www.control-v.net/screens/ffx...827204947a.jpg http://www.control-v.net/screens/ffx...4-00-58-87.jpg

In contrast, the only landscape in WoW that really comes close to being as impressive as what I've seen in FFXI is Mulgore at sunset (8-9 PM server time). The whole zone gets drenched in the reddish glow of the sun setting, and it looks beautiful.

Unfortunately, there are always the generic tunnels. This is where WoW's art style kicks FFXI's ass. Even the generic copy-pasted mines and house interiors in WoW have more life and flair to them than a lot of dungeons in FFXI do. Still, there's a lot of beauty in FFXI if you look to the horizon instead of at your feet. (Edit: also, the drawdistance plugin kicks ass.)

[berticus]

What I found silly is that for areas like say.. Fei'yin. There was a part of it that you had to go through the basement to get to. Yet the only obstable was a floor only an inch off the ground. This one inch high floor causes you to make an epic journey through the basement, and around to get to. Btw, bets say the area in the first of the screen's Bercus posted, 90% generic tunnels. The 3rd screen in-game cinema and the last screenshots you'll notice a little ridge that stops you from walking in the shrubbery and grasses.

now that you bring up feiyin, the "cermet zone tileset" really bores me. when i first heard the name "shrine of ruavitau" in 2003 when i was still leveling, i thought "wow badass i bet its like ToV - all decorated and huge and elaborate." instead its like a clone of feiyin with different lighting.. and the ENTIRE zone is COMPLETELY symmetrical lol! i wonder if the lore is like "the zilart were a very geometrical people" to justify the lackluster design of every symmetrical zone ffxi has

huxzoi and ruhmet then did the exact same thing plus some doors

[Zigrah]

I think it was a choice they made and I won't disagree with it. As Rah beat me to stating the game is very landscape oriented, and everything is usually on a very large scale and for the most part outdoors and if you go outside and look around in real life, you need to move for very long periods before the scenery starts to change. Wow's dynamic that they have going for them is your pretty much inside a cartoon, it's easier to bleed colors and blend environments when the evironment already looks naturally fake and despite the effect are actually very simple in design.

FFXI went for a realistic approach and unfortunatly all the transitional details are going on during a black screen that says loading... It would really be nice to see how one zone becomes another but sometimes it's just too much textures and I'm sure the ps2 is the primary reason. You can sort of see it sometimes though like zoning from Zitah to Ro'Maeve even though you get that black screen the way it looks from the end of zitah and the beginning of Ro'Maeve you don't get the impression that you've traveled too far. Most zones are pretty good at this with the exception of a few where you all of a sudden zone and it's like your 300 miles away.

Wow instances have loading times because the instanced zone is actually a unique server that you shift to. Your world can go down but you can continue your instance fight which would be fantastic if you could do for Dynamis. Other than that the game is pretty seemless in it's loading as it's not held back by ps2 and well it's also much a much newer game.

So while I get what your saying Berticus and I agree it would be nice, the two games are pretty far apart from a technological standpoint. FFXI might not have that same seemless effect of Wow but there are a few graphical things it had like landscapes and beauty... and to a degree more realism.
I look at the graphics for FFXI sometimes and as simplistic and antiquated they are, not many mmorpg's you can take a screenshot and go, wow that looks real. In the sense that it "could" be real as it's obviously fake but if you look at newer games like lineage 2 or matrix online which are newer and "graphically superior" something always strikes fake about the environment to me at least.

It would be a nice plus to remove loading areas between like yhoator and ifrits so you got the feel you walked to this volcano in the middle of this huge jungle, or how norg is through a jungle down a long cave to this cool underground city... but it's a sacrifice I am willing to accept. Hopefully with the technological enhancements of next generation systems, next generation mmorpg's made by SE or any company will be able to make this a possibility but for now I won't make a fuss.

[layoneil]

symmetry is a device of technology, i don't think it's logical to rip on that.

i do hope that never again do i see a new cermet structure in FFXI.