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  1. #1
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    buying abj.

    Xavier:

    How does one break the cycle? and i mean a legit way... how long do you think it would take FI to stop selling abjurations if people stopped coming... month? year? and lets say some random nub buys 1 a week as the low end of the solution of people stopping(cuz some 12-13 year old proly doesnt understand the concept of what he's actually doing). the length of someones FF career might not permit that style of solution... say a guy wants to snag an item because by the time FI has quite whoring the F out of the kings, beats teh 150+ gets the random claim, adn then the slim chance of popping a king the day they claim, and actually kills the mob... he already quite? should he never get to enjoy that aspect of the game?

    And just for the record im against buying abjurations and saying that having enough gil to get X item = should have X item. just want to know you're angle on this angle. are you saying some people should just throw out the idea of that type of enjoyment of a game?

    -personally i don't think he/she should get to enjoy it as its a rare prize, but i want to know how you will justify it to that guy. because that guy will show up over and over and buy the abj everytime, ruin, and keep ruining FF.

  2. #2

    Xavier:

    How does one break the cycle? and i mean a legit way... how long do you think it would take FI to stop selling abjurations if people stopped coming... month? year? and lets say some random nub buys 1 a week as the low end of the solution of people stopping(cuz some 12-13 year old proly doesnt understand the concept of what he's actually doing). the length of someones FF career might not permit that style of solution... say a guy wants to snag an item because by the time FI has quite whoring the F out of the kings, beats teh 150+ gets the random claim, adn then the slim chance of popping a king the day they claim, and actually kills the mob... he already quite? should he never get to enjoy that aspect of the game?

    And just for the record im against buying abjurations and saying that having enough gil to get X item = should have X item. just want to know you're angle on this angle. are you saying some people should just throw out the idea of that type of enjoyment of a game?

    -personally i don't he/she should get to enjoy it as its a rare prize, but i want to know how you will justify it to that guy. because that guy will show up over and over and buy the abj everytime, ruin, and keep ruining FF.
    The way SE has set up the 3 Kings, guarantees no more then 1% of the population of every server will ever see an abjuration in their life.

    Solution: SE needs to change something, or there will always be someone whoring the 3 kings. Nothing else will change that short of SE changing how kings pop/abjurations drop. Period.

  3. #3
    The God Damn Kuno
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    If I was King, I'd run things similar to what people are saying. I would remove Adamantoise completely from the game, BC99 Turtle has the same drops (egg, and then some).
    I would remove Behemoth completely from the game, BC99 Behemoth has the same drops (hides, tongue, and then some).
    I would move Fafnir to an 18 man ENM with an increased drop rate on his gear.
    I would change Aspid, King Behemoth and Nidhogg to daily pops, which would have the effect of massively flooding the game with their drops and maxing people out very fast.
    I would released Cursed 2.0 that makes the current line of gear absurdly underpowered, allowing the new Wyrms to be less of a chore, as well giving the kills a sense of tangible accomplishment.
    Flooding the market with the current line of abj, in a normal MMO, would not be a negative thing because the nature of MMOs is to constantly advance and get stronger and better looking gear every few patches. Its assbackwards that the playerbase should covet gear that are two years old in a MMO.
    Sea, in all honesty, should have been mirroring sky and the 3 wyrms should have been mirroring Faf/KB/Aspid with cursed 2.0 in an almost identical setup. Nobody would have complained if Square had just copied their last expansion, its a good system.
    -Xavier

  4. #4
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    If I was King, I'd run things similar to what people are saying. I would remove Adamantoise completely from the game, BC99 Turtle has the same drops (egg, and then some).
    I would remove Behemoth completely from the game, BC99 Behemoth has the same drops (hides, tongue, and then some).
    I would move Fafnir to an 18 man ENM with an increased drop rate on his gear.
    I would change Aspid, King Behemoth and Nidhogg to daily pops, which would have the effect of massively flooding the game with their drops and maxing people out very fast.
    I would released Cursed 2.0 that makes the current line of gear absurdly underpowered, allowing the new Wyrms to be less of a chore, as well giving the kills a sense of tangible accomplishment.
    Flooding the market with the current line of abj, in a normal MMO, would not be a negative thing because the nature of MMOs is to constantly advance and get stronger and better looking gear every few patches. Its assbackwards that the playerbase should covet gear that are two years old in a MMO.
    Sea, in all honesty, should have been mirroring sky and the 3 wyrms should have been mirroring Faf/KB/Aspid with cursed 2.0 in an almost identical setup. Nobody would have complained if Square had just copied their last expansion, its a good system.
    -Xavier
    Now thats a good post.

    ~anyone else can feel free to drop ideas too.

  5. #5
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    I've already posted on this topic a few times in another thread, to sum it up I feel that buying/selling abjurations is acceptable.

    Someone argued my points, I forgot who it was but they made an analogy to something along the lines of A person graduating medical school being allowed to practice as a lawyer, simply because they have put in hard work to become a doctor. Whoever made that analogy was using it to illustrate hard work and success in one aspect of life doesn't entitle you to the benefits of hard work in another different aspect in life. I think this analogy was very poor and didn't really apply to the matter at hand (poor because it isn't really a practical scenario) so I'll create one of my own that I feel is more accurate.

    Its kind of like... a wealthy father of a college bound son makes a donation to the school his son wishes to attend to make his son's application more appealing.

    I think this analogy is better because it shows that although this isn't the way things are meant to be (Just as Rare/EX items were not meant to be sold, that is why SE made them rare/EX) greed in the world is very present and needs to be accounted for. Everything in this game, just like real life has a price.


    Anyways, I feel that SE realizes this possibly, and I think that the CoP Wyrm loot supports that.

    All of Vrtra's drops can be placed on AH/bazaar.
    All of Tiamat's drops can be placed on AH/bazaar.
    All of Jorm's with the exception of that Pole (maybe?) can be placed on AH/bazaar.

    The way I see it is, SE enables very wealthy people who can't be bothered to actually kill the NM/have no interest in killing the NM enjoy their drops, by excelling in other areas in the game and buying them from people who do kill the mobs. With this, everyone benefits. People who enjoy killing NMs are rewarded by gil, and people who enjoy crafting/making money are rewarded with ways to spend their gil.

    The majority of other HNMs in the past all have mostly rare/ex items that cannot be bought or sold, and SE is kind of going into a different direction with that. That's something that definitely can't be argued. I really can't imagine having 100,000,000+ gil and risking time/XP to kill an NM that another group of people will kill for you.

  6. #6
    Xavier
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not Kuno
    If I was King, I'd run things similar to what people are saying. I would remove Adamantoise completely from the game, BC99 Turtle has the same drops (egg, and then some).
    I would remove Behemoth completely from the game, BC99 Behemoth has the same drops (hides, tongue, and then some).
    I would move Fafnir to an 18 man ENM with an increased drop rate on his gear.
    I would change Aspid, King Behemoth and Nidhogg to daily pops, which would have the effect of massively flooding the game with their drops and maxing people out very fast.
    I would released Cursed 2.0 that makes the current line of gear absurdly underpowered, allowing the new Wyrms to be less of a chore, as well giving the kills a sense of tangible accomplishment.
    Flooding the market with the current line of abj, in a normal MMO, would not be a negative thing because the nature of MMOs is to constantly advance and get stronger and better looking gear every few patches. Its assbackwards that the playerbase should covet gear that are two years old in a MMO.
    Sea, in all honesty, should have been mirroring sky and the 3 wyrms should have been mirroring Faf/KB/Aspid with cursed 2.0 in an almost identical setup. Nobody would have complained if Square had just copied their last expansion, its a good system.
    -Xavier
    I wrote that a while back, summing up how I would singlehandedly fix endgame in a single patch. I think if they did that, a lot of people would be happier w/ endgame.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yuo
    I think this analogy was very poor and didn't really apply to the matter at hand (poor because it isn't really a practical scenario) so I'll create one of my own that I feel is more accurate.

    Its kind of like... a wealthy father of a college bound son makes a donation to the school his son wishes to attend to make his son's application more appealing.
    A poor analogy because it didn't argue your point of view I guess, but I think its fairly accurate. If someone kills a monster, they expect the rewards. If someone levels a craft, they expect to make items (and money). If someone goes to law school, they expect to become a lawyer, if you go to medical school, a doctor. Different paths in life have different benefits, but thats not to say that people can't always go back to school (join an HNM LS or leave one to craft and level up),

    You're going right back to arguging that a capitalistic society is the only way to live. I feel that in a game, and just a game, your reward should be directly based on what you focus your attention on.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yuo
    People who enjoy killing NMs are rewarded by gil, and people who enjoy crafting/making money are rewarded with ways to spend their gil.
    Well if it works for the gilsellers...then who am I to argue.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yuo
    The majority of other HNMs in the past all have mostly rare/ex items that cannot be bought or sold, and SE is kind of going into a different direction with that. That's something that definitely can't be argued.
    You're right, it can't be argued. They're moving in from NMs that drop good gear to NMs that drop no gear.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yuo
    The way I see it is, SE enables very wealthy people who can't be bothered to actually kill the NM/have no interest in killing the NM enjoy their drops, by excelling in other areas in the game and buying them from people who do kill the mobs.
    So many things wrong with that statement at a basic level its amazing. I have to assume you're American, because thats an extremely lazy + elitist attitude rolled into one. Its not very hard in a game to do everything it has to offer, and its not that crazy to expect the people who take the time to kill the monsters to feel they deserve the gear before people who don't.

    You're argument comes down to people thinking money can buy them anything, which in a game shouldn't be the case. Playing a game..should be for the experience. Despite what you say, the only thing hard about raising a craft is having the money to do so in the first place. It is not hard to click a crystal and then click the ingrediants and then click ok. Its time consuming, but so is camping Fafnir for 1 year just for a rare chance at a few Nidhoggs w/ a low chance of getting the gear you want. When the people who've maxed out on gear deny the people who haven't but want to engage in endgame because people who "can't be bothered to actually kill the NM" want to buy the gear, theres something fundamentally wrong w/ that picture.

    You're still ignoring the basic principle that someone who has been camping Nidhogg for 2 years and still hasn't gotten their body abj SHOULDN'T GET FUCKED OVER by someone who has never touched an HNM in his life just because he has money. The people who "can't be bothered" have picked what they want to accomplish in the game, so have the people who 'can be bothered'. Nothing to stop either side from changing their focus, but I don't think money should be the deciding factor in anything.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yuo
    Its kind of like... a wealthy father of a college bound son makes a donation to the school his son wishes to attend to make his son's application more appealing.
    and FYI, affirmitive action was created w/ the intent of stopping things like that in the real world, not to say it doesn't happen, but even in the real world people realize that money shouldn't be the only means to opportunity.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xavier
    Quote Originally Posted by Not Kuno
    If I was King, I'd run things similar to what people are saying. I would remove Adamantoise completely from the game, BC99 Turtle has the same drops (egg, and then some).
    I would remove Behemoth completely from the game, BC99 Behemoth has the same drops (hides, tongue, and then some).
    I would move Fafnir to an 18 man ENM with an increased drop rate on his gear.
    I would change Aspid, King Behemoth and Nidhogg to daily pops, which would have the effect of massively flooding the game with their drops and maxing people out very fast.
    I would released Cursed 2.0 that makes the current line of gear absurdly underpowered, allowing the new Wyrms to be less of a chore, as well giving the kills a sense of tangible accomplishment.
    Flooding the market with the current line of abj, in a normal MMO, would not be a negative thing because the nature of MMOs is to constantly advance and get stronger and better looking gear every few patches. Its assbackwards that the playerbase should covet gear that are two years old in a MMO.
    Sea, in all honesty, should have been mirroring sky and the 3 wyrms should have been mirroring Faf/KB/Aspid with cursed 2.0 in an almost identical setup. Nobody would have complained if Square had just copied their last expansion, its a good system.
    -Xavier
    I wrote that a while back, summing up how I would singlehandedly fix endgame in a single patch. I think if they did that, a lot of people would be happier w/ endgame.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yuo
    I think this analogy was very poor and didn't really apply to the matter at hand (poor because it isn't really a practical scenario) so I'll create one of my own that I feel is more accurate.

    Its kind of like... a wealthy father of a college bound son makes a donation to the school his son wishes to attend to make his son's application more appealing.
    A poor analogy because it didn't argue your point of view I guess, but I think its fairly accurate. If someone kills a monster, they expect the rewards. If someone levels a craft, they expect to make items (and money). If someone goes to law school, they expect to become a lawyer, if you go to medical school, a doctor. Different paths in life have different benefits, but thats not to say that people can't always go back to school (join an HNM LS or leave one to craft and level up),

    You're going right back to arguging that a capitalistic society is the only way to live. I feel that in a game, and just a game, your reward should be directly based on what you focus your attention on.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yuo
    People who enjoy killing NMs are rewarded by gil, and people who enjoy crafting/making money are rewarded with ways to spend their gil.
    Well if it works for the gilsellers...then who am I to argue.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yuo
    The majority of other HNMs in the past all have mostly rare/ex items that cannot be bought or sold, and SE is kind of going into a different direction with that. That's something that definitely can't be argued.
    You're right, it can't be argued. They're moving in from NMs that drop good gear to NMs that drop no gear.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yuo
    The way I see it is, SE enables very wealthy people who can't be bothered to actually kill the NM/have no interest in killing the NM enjoy their drops, by excelling in other areas in the game and buying them from people who do kill the mobs.
    So many things wrong with that statement at a basic level its amazing. I have to assume you're American, because thats an extremely lazy + elitist attitude rolled into one. Its not very hard in a game to do everything it has to offer, and its not that crazy to expect the people who take the time to kill the monsters to feel they deserve the gear before people who don't.

    You're argument comes down to people thinking money can buy them anything, which in a game shouldn't be the case. Playing a game..should be for the experience. Despite what you say, the only thing hard about raising a craft is having the money to do so in the first place. It is not hard to click a crystal and then click the ingrediants and then click ok. Its time consuming, but so is camping Fafnir for 1 year just for a rare chance at a few Nidhoggs w/ a low chance of getting the gear you want. When the people who've maxed out on gear deny the people who haven't but want to engage in endgame because people who "can't be bothered to actually kill the NM" want to buy the gear, theres something fundamentally wrong w/ that picture.

    You're still ignoring the basic principle that someone who has been camping Nidhogg for 2 years and still hasn't gotten their body abj SHOULDN'T GET FUCKED OVER by someone who has never touched an HNM in his life just because he has money. The people who "can't be bothered" have picked what they want to accomplish in the game, so have the people who 'can be bothered'. Nothing to stop either side from changing their focus, but I don't think money should be the deciding factor in anything.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yuo
    Its kind of like... a wealthy father of a college bound son makes a donation to the school his son wishes to attend to make his son's application more appealing.
    and FYI, affirmitive action was created w/ the intent of stopping things like that in the real world, not to say it doesn't happen, but even in the real world people realize that money shouldn't be the only means to opportunity.
    lol what are you talking about?

    Tiamat drops Herald Gaiters, on most servers this item is among the top 10 most expensive items. Ouryu drops a Tutelary, Vrtra drops a Reviler's Helm. All of these items can be found in the AH or bazaars.

    Also, all 4 CoP Dragons drop Synthesis Materials that makeup more very expensive items, such as BRD JSE, DRK JSE, Dragon harness, and the Barone armors.

    All items dropped from the 4 CoP Wyrms (with the exception of Jorm's pole I believe) are able to be AH'd or Bazaar'd.

    SE essentially turned its back on rare/ex flagging items from the top-tier HNMs.

    When you consider the rarity of these items, its hard to argue that SE didn't intend for people who excel in other areas of the game, such as making gil, to have an opportunity to enjoy the drops from NMs. If they truly didn't want this, why not continue to rare/ex flag items like Herald gaiters or Tutelary?

    the bottom line is, it isn't your place or my place to say who should and should'nt be able to get items, or get screwed out of camping HNMs. Its up to SE and in my eyes I feel SE is leaning toward making the majority of drops off the hardest NMs in the game gil buyable.

  8. #8
    The God Damn Kuno
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    Now compare tulitary, revilers helm, gaiters and brd jse to dalmatica, adaman haub, martial body and ridill, and I just owned all CoP endgame with one fucking NM and hq.

  9. #9
    Smells like Onions
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    Fix? lol

    you guys act like SE cares about anything more than our money. The idea is to keep suckers like us playing...

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not Kuno
    If I was King, I'd run things similar to what people are saying. I would remove Adamantoise completely from the game, BC99 Turtle has the same drops (egg, and then some).
    I would remove Behemoth completely from the game, BC99 Behemoth has the same drops (hides, tongue, and then some).
    I would move Fafnir to an 18 man ENM with an increased drop rate on his gear.
    I would change Aspid, King Behemoth and Nidhogg to daily pops, which would have the effect of massively flooding the game with their drops and maxing people out very fast.
    I would released Cursed 2.0 that makes the current line of gear absurdly underpowered, allowing the new Wyrms to be less of a chore, as well giving the kills a sense of tangible accomplishment.
    Flooding the market with the current line of abj, in a normal MMO, would not be a negative thing because the nature of MMOs is to constantly advance and get stronger and better looking gear every few patches. Its assbackwards that the playerbase should covet gear that are two years old in a MMO.
    Sea, in all honesty, should have been mirroring sky and the 3 wyrms should have been mirroring Faf/KB/Aspid with cursed 2.0 in an almost identical setup. Nobody would have complained if Square had just copied their last expansion, its a good system.
    -Xavier

  11. #11
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    Well, Xav, the only problem about that is that it requires the Dev team to get off their ass. Somehow they are getting away with making shitty updates with what seems to be minimal effort. The things they implement barely require any new coding, especially when they reuse mob models etc.

    I just don't think they'd ever do any actual work. They probably sit around all day playing halo for 6-7 hours and then they talk about NPC crap for 20 minutes before they go home.

  12. #12

    Quote Originally Posted by Raivyn
    Well, Xav, the only problem about that is that it requires the Dev team to get off their ass. Somehow they are getting away with making shitty updates with what seems to be minimal effort. The things they implement barely require any new coding, especially when they reuse mob models etc.

    I just don't think they'd ever do any actual work. They probably sit around all day playing halo for 6-7 hours and then they talk about NPC crap for 20 minutes before they go home.
    one thing that was mentioned at the texas igames thing by sundi was that there's a FFXI-2 (eq->eq2) in the works. don't know what stage of development that's at, but it's largely possible that they're devoting insane resources to that and to them ffxi is very low priority. that would at least make sense. but i've said "that would make sense" for lots of theories about square/ff and it's never right because they never make sense.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yuo
    lol what are you talking about?
    check Jailer drops.

  14. #14
    Xavier
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yuo
    lol what are you talking about?

    Tiamat drops Herald Gaiters, on most servers this item is among the top 10 most expensive items. Ouryu drops a Tutelary, Vrtra drops a Reviler's Helm. All of these items can be found in the AH or bazaars.

    Also, all 4 CoP Dragons drop Synthesis Materials that makeup more very expensive items, such as BRD JSE, DRK JSE, Dragon harness, and the Barone armors.

    All items dropped from the 4 CoP Wyrms (with the exception of Jorm's pole I believe) are able to be AH'd or Bazaar'd.

    SE essentially turned its back on rare/ex flagging items from the top-tier HNMs.

    When you consider the rarity of these items, its hard to argue that SE didn't intend for people who excel in other areas of the game, such as making gil, to have an opportunity to enjoy the drops from NMs. If they truly didn't want this, why not continue to rare/ex flag items like Herald gaiters or Tutelary?

    the bottom line is, it isn't your place or my place to say who should and should'nt be able to get items, or get screwed out of camping HNMs. Its up to SE and in my eyes I feel SE is leaning toward making the majority of drops off the hardest NMs in the game gil buyable.
    "lol what are you talking about?" indeed. Its clear you have no concept of endgame, dunno why I'm bothering but I'll continue to fight the good fight.

    The items you listed, every single one of them, are worthless. An item being expensive has no merit on it being good. They added far harder monsters with far worse loot.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yuo
    SE essentially turned its back on rare/ex flagging items from the top-tier HNMs.
    False. Square turned its back on adding worthwhile gear to the monsters, what they currently have are filler.
    Quote Originally Posted by Yuo
    its hard to argue that SE didn't intend for people who excel in other areas of the game
    First, they excel at what? They excel at using the auction house to buy materials, clicking a crystal, clicking ingrediants, watching an animation, and then putting the item back on the AH? The ability to make money is in no way matched by the degree of difficulty that dynamis and HNMs pose. To argue that point, to claim that people who excel at making money are struggling as hard as people involved w/ hnms is crazy, and only proves you yourself probably aren't that heavily involved in endgame.

    The CoP Wyrms drop absolute bullshit, I don't understand your argument at all. They're moving towards absolutely nothing, and moving there relatively fast.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yuo
    Its up to SE and in my eyes I feel SE is leaning toward making the majority of drops off the hardest NMs in the game gil buyable
    Square doesn't do anything. Square doesn't watch over every HNM kill and send out a becon to all people w/ money to show up and buy gear. Thats player-based and has absolutely nothing to do with Square.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by berticus
    Quote Originally Posted by Raivyn
    Well, Xav, the only problem about that is that it requires the Dev team to get off their ass. Somehow they are getting away with making shitty updates with what seems to be minimal effort. The things they implement barely require any new coding, especially when they reuse mob models etc.

    I just don't think they'd ever do any actual work. They probably sit around all day playing halo for 6-7 hours and then they talk about NPC crap for 20 minutes before they go home.
    one thing that was mentioned at the texas igames thing by sundi was that there's a FFXI-2 (eq->eq2) in the works. don't know what stage of development that's at, but it's largely possible that they're devoting insane resources to that and to them ffxi is very low priority. that would at least make sense. but i've said "that would make sense" for lots of theories about square/ff and it's never right because they never make sense.
    well, that WOULD make sense... but, lol - what you said is true, they never make sense.

    For instance - ffxi-2? Why? Why not just improve this one?

    It might make more sense if you look at it this way;

    SE's idea of a successful money making MMO is to make a huge time sink. 1-2+ Jobs to 75 = time. Farming and drops = time. The more time you spend on it the more money they make. Also if they just make everything impossibly time consuming they don't actually have to add anything new. Less work for them = more money for less work. As opposed to making new stuff and continually gratifying their player base.

    Addendum (edit): I mean, look at how simple it was for xav/kuno's solution to be implemented. One patch that moves stuff and puts in maybe 10-15 new items. That would fix endgame for months. But they don't do it, even though it would require very little time. Gay.

  16. #16
    Xavier
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    Its just a form of diminishing returns (or w/e). The longer a MMO has been on the market, the less likely it is to pick up new customers. Releasing a brand new FF MMO would likely have the effect of getting 95% of the people playing FFXI to try it, while bringing new people to the table who would give it a go.

  17. #17
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    I'd buy FFXI-2 because I consider myself a believer. I believe in God, I believe in Aliens, and I believe Square-Enix can make another large-scale MMO without fucking it up as bad as the original.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xavier
    Its just a form of diminishing returns (or w/e). The longer a MMO has been on the market, the less likely it is to pick up new customers. Releasing a brand new FF MMO would likely have the effect of getting 95% of the people playing FFXI to try it, while bringing new people to the table who would give it a go.
    Given SE's track record, I'd buy WoW first

    But definitely true. More publicity etc. What would their add campaign look like though...

    "Remember how much the first one sucked? Well do it all over again!!!" XD

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yuo
    Quote Originally Posted by Yuo
    The majority of other HNMs in the past all have mostly rare/ex items that cannot be bought or sold, and SE is kind of going into a different direction with that. That's something that definitely can't be argued.
    You're right, it can't be argued. They're moving in from NMs that drop good gear to NMs that drop no gear.

    lol what are you talking about?

    Tiamat drops Herald Gaiters, on most servers this item is among the top 10 most expensive items. Ouryu drops a Tutelary, Vrtra drops a Reviler's Helm. All of these items can be found in the AH or bazaars.

    Also, all 4 CoP Dragons drop Synthesis Materials that makeup more very expensive items, such as BRD JSE, DRK JSE, Dragon harness, and the Barone armors.

    All items dropped from the 4 CoP Wyrms (with the exception of Jorm's pole I believe) are able to be AH'd or Bazaar'd.

    SE essentially turned its back on rare/ex flagging items from the top-tier HNMs.

    When you consider the rarity of these items, its hard to argue that SE didn't intend for people who excel in other areas of the game, such as making gil, to have an opportunity to enjoy the drops from NMs. If they truly didn't want this, why not continue to rare/ex flag items like Herald gaiters or Tutelary?

    the bottom line is, it isn't your place or my place to say who should and should'nt be able to get items, or get screwed out of camping HNMs. Its up to SE and in my eyes I feel SE is leaning toward making the majority of drops off the hardest NMs in the game gil buyable.
    Look at the loot pool from Tiamat, then look at the loot pool from Fafnir.

    Tiamat-
    * Black Beetle Blood
    * Dragon Blood
    * Dragon Heart
    * Dragon Scales
    * Dragon Talon
    * Fire Crystal
    * Herald's Gaiters
    * Noritsune Kote
    * Wyrm Horn

    Fafnir-
    * Aegishjalmr
    * Andvaranauts
    * Aquarian Abjuration: Feet
    * Aquarian Abjuration: Hands
    * Balmung
    * Dragon Blood
    * Dragon Heart
    * Dragon Meat
    * Dragon Scales
    * Dragon Talon
    * Earthen Abjuration: Hands
    * Fire Crystal
    * Hrotti
    * N.Abjuration: Hd.
    * Ridill
    * Wyrm Beard

    Now, one of those mobs can be beat easily in 15 minutes with less than 18 people, the other one can take an hour or more and requires about 2 alliances. There are few items from CoP that even come close to touching the usefulness of abjuration armor or the AF2 of some jobs.

    You can argue Square's intentions all you want, but just because some items of dubious worth (Reviler's Helm, Herald's Gaiters) are tradable, it doe not mean that Square intended them to be sold. Their original concept may have been that they wanted the items to be shared among linkshell members, thinking that people would not want to place worth on items of such value.

    But when all is said and done, it is all a matter of people feeling entitlement. People who think that they can throw enough money around to get anything they want are lazy and are generally allergic to hard work. Why bother playing the game if they expect other people to hand other their accomplishments for the right price?

  20. #20

    You can argue Square's intentions all you want, but just because some items of dubious worth (Reviler's Helm, Herald's Gaiters) are tradable, it doe not mean that Square intended them to be sold. Their original concept may have been that they wanted the items to be shared among linkshell members, thinking that people would not want to place worth on items of such value.
    I believe that is the EXACT reason why they arent RA/EX...not that SE wants them to be sold. You seriously think that SE intended for LSes to sell Reviler Helms? Guess how many have sold on my server. 0. Guess how many Gaiters have sold on the AH. 0. These things arent meant to be sold..they dont sell for the majority of occasions. (My LS has 9 gaiters...trust me we dont camp Tiamat to sell them...we camp him to get Gaiters, and never will a member be allowed to sell them, and we will not camp him once everyone has the amount we need.) Face it you know nothing about what endgame used to be, and you know nothing about what it is. (Referring to Yuo.)

    You remind me of the dev-teams that watch everything from a 3rd hand perspective. Try sitting in a pit for 9 hours, day after day after day, and tell me what you think needs fixing, and whats not completely fucking broken.

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