buying abj.

[kupkup]

there probably doing FFXI-2 to get rid of the PS2 player base. and by probably i mean hoping.

[arlania]

The fact that SE is leaning towards more sellalble/buyable items makes me question them. You can see they arnt even attempting to crack down on RMT and are instead catering to a game where RMT will work even better. You should not be able to just buy Heralds gaiters or a tuletary, these items should be rare/ex and be rewards for the people that fight the HNM's. In another sense I guess it's catering to the idiots who dont want to go fight something because "I get nothing out of it". It's a game and as much you should want to fight new and exciting things and enjoy the game. Not just sit on your ass and buy items...

[Gregorio]

there probably doing FFXI-2 to get rid of the PS2 player base. and by probably i mean hoping.

By the time FFXI-2 comes out (if it ever really does come out), the PS3 will already be out too.

[Desklamp]

there probably doing FFXI-2 to get rid of the PS2 player base. and by probably i mean hoping.

By the time FFXI-2 comes out (if it ever really does come out), the PS3 will already be out too.

which was the entire point of kupkup's post.

[Yuo]

lol what are you talking about?

Tiamat drops Herald Gaiters, on most servers this item is among the top 10 most expensive items. Ouryu drops a Tutelary, Vrtra drops a Reviler's Helm. All of these items can be found in the AH or bazaars.

Also, all 4 CoP Dragons drop Synthesis Materials that makeup more very expensive items, such as BRD JSE, DRK JSE, Dragon harness, and the Barone armors.

All items dropped from the 4 CoP Wyrms (with the exception of Jorm's pole I believe) are able to be AH'd or Bazaar'd.

SE essentially turned its back on rare/ex flagging items from the top-tier HNMs.

When you consider the rarity of these items, its hard to argue that SE didn't intend for people who excel in other areas of the game, such as making gil, to have an opportunity to enjoy the drops from NMs. If they truly didn't want this, why not continue to rare/ex flag items like Herald gaiters or Tutelary?

the bottom line is, it isn't your place or my place to say who should and should'nt be able to get items, or get screwed out of camping HNMs. Its up to SE and in my eyes I feel SE is leaning toward making the majority of drops off the hardest NMs in the game gil buyable.

"lol what are you talking about?" indeed. Its clear you have no concept of endgame, dunno why I'm bothering but I'll continue to fight the good fight.

The items you listed, every single one of them, are worthless. An item being expensive has no merit on it being good. They added far harder monsters with far worse loot.

SE essentially turned its back on rare/ex flagging items from the top-tier HNMs.

False. Square turned its back on adding worthwhile gear to the monsters, what they currently have are filler.

its hard to argue that SE didn't intend for people who excel in other areas of the game

First, they excel at what? They excel at using the auction house to buy materials, clicking a crystal, clicking ingrediants, watching an animation, and then putting the item back on the AH? The ability to make money is in no way matched by the degree of difficulty that dynamis and HNMs pose. To argue that point, to claim that people who excel at making money are struggling as hard as people involved w/ hnms is crazy, and only proves you yourself probably aren't that heavily involved in endgame.

The CoP Wyrms drop absolute bullshit, I don't understand your argument at all. They're moving towards absolutely nothing, and moving there relatively fast.

Its up to SE and in my eyes I feel SE is leaning toward making the majority of drops off the hardest NMs in the game gil buyable

Square doesn't do anything. Square doesn't watch over every HNM kill and send out a becon to all people w/ money to show up and buy gear. Thats player-based and has absolutely nothing to do with Square.

I totally disagree. I posed this question in a previous thread, compare the amount of people who have a net worth of 100mil++ with the number of people who have killed HNM. You even said yourself, these HNMs aren't hard.

In fact, I believe all HNM, maybe with the exception of the CoP Dragons (and AV/JOL of course) can be killed by slapping together 18 strangers together from Lower Jeuno.

Only the CoP Wyrms are even a decent challenge to most of the endgame community. Almost anyone who is level 75 can join an HNMLS and kill HNMs, but it is extremely difficult to legitimately earn large sums of gil. Dynamis is a total joke altogether, how many times does a LS wipe after their first few dynamis runs?

I've killed all HNMs, and after the first few kills, its pretty much rinse and repeat, with pretty much no chance of wiping.

If you consider CoP Wyrm loot worthless, then why bother killing them? If you still consider it a challenge after 3-4 kills, then you really need to rework your strategy for these mobs.

[Gregorio]

there probably doing FFXI-2 to get rid of the PS2 player base. and by probably i mean hoping.

By the time FFXI-2 comes out (if it ever really does come out), the PS3 will already be out too.

which was the entire point of kupkup's post.

And the entire point of my post was that PS3 will be way better than PS2 and not as "restrictive" as some people claim PS2 is.

[Desklamp]

there probably doing FFXI-2 to get rid of the PS2 player base. and by probably i mean hoping.

By the time FFXI-2 comes out (if it ever really does come out), the PS3 will already be out too.

which was the entire point of kupkup's post.

And the entire point of my post was that PS3 will be way better than PS2 and not as "restrictive" as some people claim PS2 is.

PS2 is restrictive. 4 years ago it was fine but not anymore.

[Flarega]

In fact, I believe all HNM, maybe with the exception of the CoP Dragons (and AV/JOL of course) can be killed by slapping together 18 strangers together from Lower Jeuno.

/shout Nidhogg {Do you need it?} {/tell} Bigfatmonkey
/shout Casino! 500+ 2xgil 900+ 3x gil Taking bets of one mil! {Trade} Bigfatmonkey!111!!!!!1ononoeneoneoenoeeexlamatione xclamation!!1oneoenoen

[Sekkite]

Personally I would not touch any sort of FFXI-2 unless I hear that all the glaring problems in FFXI were fixed.

[arlania]

I totally disagree. I posed this question in a previous thread, compare the amount of people who have a net worth of 100mil++ with the number of people who have killed HNM. You even said yourself, these HNMs aren't hard.

In fact, I believe all HNM, maybe with the exception of the CoP Dragons (and AV/JOL of course) can be killed by slapping together 18 strangers together from Lower Jeuno.

Only the CoP Wyrms are even a decent challenge to most of the endgame community. Almost anyone who is level 75 can join an HNMLS and kill HNMs, but it is extremely difficult to legitimately earn large sums of gil. Dynamis is a total joke altogether, how many times does a LS wipe after their first few dynamis runs?

I've killed all HNMs, and after the first few kills, its pretty much rinse and repeat, with pretty much no chance of wiping.

If you consider CoP Wyrm loot worthless, then why bother killing them? If you still consider it a challenge after 3-4 kills, then you really need to rework your strategy for these mobs.

I highly doubt a 18person pick up could go kill nidhogg or even Fafnir for that matter. Maybe NQ turtle and NQ behemoth at most. It is a challenge after 3-4 kills id say on any HNM because you dont know what it could throw at you. Fafnir could just spam wing and nothing else and drop your alliance. Saying money is hard to obtain is a joke also. It's not hard to make gil at all but it IS hard to fight for your items because most people are too lazy to try for it. Hell I camped a lvl 10 GKT for 3days even though I could have went and bought one of similar stats, why? because it was the challenge. Most CoP loot is worthless but the fights are fun. Did you complete CoP just for the ring or did you actually take the time to read the story?

[Lockecole]

In fact, I believe all HNM, maybe with the exception of the CoP Dragons (and AV/JOL of course) can be killed by slapping together 18 strangers together from Lower Jeuno.

With that said I should have just stopped reading right then and there...and yet I still continued to read ahead and am a little puzzled by this.

I've killed all HNMs, and after the first few kills, its pretty much rinse and repeat, with pretty much no chance of wiping.

Who are you, LS, Server, why should we believe anything you have to say has merit. Half of the people here who have proven to do something disagree with you 100%. All Im getting out of this is someone who has no experience in endgame and is taking cracks at what it may or not be about.

If you've killed all of these HNMs, how many items have you sold from Tiamat, from Vrtra? How many Reviler Helms, how many Gaiters?

[Flarega]

Also to add, people who get about 100+mil from crafting do HNMs as well. Full moon lightsday is only one hour every 3 or so days. Plenty of time to camp HNMs.

[Neko]

Tiamet sucks lol, killed him today...and...

" You find an oxblood...."

lol...

[Samis]

at least its beats a loner FC.

[DrObvious]

In fact, I believe all HNM, maybe with the exception of the CoP Dragons (and AV/JOL of course) can be killed by slapping together 18 strangers together from Lower Jeuno.

I've seen a noob hmnls wipe to KB, which isn't much harder than Kirin, so no, I doubt that. You've also obviously never camped Fafnir because I see noobs with more than 18+ wipe to him.

[Maxxthepenguin]

I get pretty dumbfounded by some of the attitudes of you guys. You say they never add good things... but they release new good things on hard monsters every stinking patch. You say Sea is broken with no good rewards, when I see lots of amazing ones. I feel like making a list of new things added to endgame.
NOTE: I think its stupid to ever expect another Ridill, I think SE has realized that it released a broken (overpowered) weapon and will never do it that extremely again.
AF2+1: Though not much better, it is STRICTLY better than the AF2 you guys even say is good stuff. And the cost isn't THAT big even, yet presented in a challenging fashion.
Bahamut Rewards: We havent even seen them all but the staff for SMNs looks to repace freakin HQ elemental staves... 6 free inventory spaces is amazing.
AF Belts and Capes: Many of these things are amazing, specifically WAR DRK and THF
King Vinegaroon: Ace's Helm is awesome and yet I dont see it camped much, why is that?
Homam and Nashira: Great items, each piece is awesome for at least one job (barring Nashira Feet perhaps)
AF+1: This stuff rocks and is obtainable as a long term goal.
Other Ancient Currency Thingies: Ditto AF+1... Brutal Earring is such a wet dream
Sea God Drops: You are really saying a STR+5 Scythe+7 GKtna+7 neckpiece is not worth it for your dedicated SAM and DRKs? The other torques are also very good. The sexiness of the skill capes is also amazing. The weapons I havent heard much about, unfortunately. Novio and Novia earrings alone are worthwhile the trip to love, they are rediculously sexy. Also AV is a challenge so great that none have even seriously attempted it... Does anybody like success in difficult things anymore? The probable AV drops are beyond amazing too, like a BETTER SPEED BELT.
July's Popping NMs: There are a lot of goodies around in these too, but once again people don't seem to like to pay attention to these. These are most definately endgame monsters with endgame challenges but you just dont care.
CoP missions: Ok this doesn't really qualify as endgame, but truely anybody who hasn't tried these using their heads instead of a guide has missed out on a great challenge. They are BY FAR the best missions in the game, especially for somebody who likes past FFs.

Guys this is all stuff within the past 5 months released for endgame, all of it worthwhile in one way or another. There is more content that was released, though not specifically for endgame, is amazingly fun and adds depth for everybody in the game. Just because you are level 75 on 4 jobs doesnt mean you cant have fun exploring the possibilities of having a NPC. Hell, there is a lot of KS and capped BCNMs that are VERY difficult that you seem to not even notice and I doubt you have tried.

But anyways, enjoy grinding molten core over and over to take all challenge out of a game, cause that is WoW endgame. And the moment they raise the level cap, due to them not having any level caps, all current difficult content will suddenly lose all challenge. But thats what you want, right? A reliable grind to get phat lewt without presenting anything new.

And heres a preemptive Who is Maxx for ya, just so I can get that trend started.

Who are you Maxx?

edit: Not even I knew I had this account for so long WTF mate

[Xavier]

Have you ever been to Sea? Farming the Aerns is a nightmare. The droprates are nightmares. It culminates w/ an unbeatable fight that 1 shots 70 people in 45 seconds.

Bahamut Rewards: We havent even seen them all but the staff for SMNs looks to repace freakin HQ elemental staves... 6 free inventory spaces is amazing.

Read: replace, not improve. My idea of improved gear is gear that does just that, is improved. Seeing as how you physically cannot summon all the avatars at the same time, this improves nothing.

AF2+1: Though not much better, it is STRICTLY better than the AF2 you guys even say is good stuff. And the cost isn't THAT big even, yet presented in a challenging fashion.

80% of AF2 is garbage. Improving shit by such an absurdly small amount leaves you w/ polished shit.

King Vinegaroon: Ace's Helm is awesome and yet I dont see it camped much, why is that?

Have you ever camped him? I had to camp him for 7 hours one day, grabbed him right before I was ready to leave, marathon him solo for 5 minutes while our LS came. The drop rate on helm is supposedly bad, I've only claimed and killed him once, no drop.

Homam and Nashira: Great items, each piece is awesome for at least one job (barring Nashira Feet perhaps)

No argument there, its good gear.

Other Ancient Currency Thingies: Ditto AF+1... Brutal Earring is such a wet dream

Brutal Earring is at most 5% double attack...hardly enough to get me off.

Sea God Drops: You are really saying a STR+5 Scythe+7 GKtna+7 neckpiece is not worth it for your dedicated SAM and DRKs? The other torques are also very good. The sexiness of the skill capes is also amazing. The weapons I havent heard much about, unfortunately. Novio and Novia earrings alone are worthwhile the trip to love, they are rediculously sexy. Also AV is a challenge so great that none have even seriously attempted it... Does anybody like success in difficult things anymore? The probable AV drops are beyond amazing too, like a BETTER SPEED BELT.

Nobody has ever said the torques aren't good, its the absurdly retarded droprate they have in combination w/ the retarded methods of popping them. You've probably never been to Sea to make claims that its a good system. FYI, a group of people consisting of over 70 people, 35 of them being BLM, teamed up to kill Jailer of Love, they struggled to kill it, and then AV popped and killed them all. Your argument is flawed because you don't know what you're talking about.

July's Popping NMs: There are a lot of goodies around in these too, but once again people don't seem to like to pay attention to these. These are most definately endgame monsters with endgame challenges but you just dont care.

Uh, we maxed out everyone who wanted the gear within 2 weeks of them coming out. They're the same as Hakutaku....semi-difficult mobs but hardly endgame material. People care, they've just gotten everything they had as soon as they came out.

But anyways, enjoy grinding molten core over and over to take all challenge out of a game, cause that is WoW endgame. And the moment they raise the level cap, due to them not having any level caps, all current difficult content will suddenly lose all challenge. But thats what you want, right? A reliable grind to get phat lewt without presenting anything new

Ignorance at its finest. I still have a FFXI account, I logged on yesterday to do Diablos. This has nothing to do with WoW. Nobody mentioned WoW. It was strickly whats wrong with FFXI's endgame. 95% of endgame linkshells will agree endgame is retarded, a jab at WoW was off-topic.

[XxSlusherxx]

But anyways, enjoy grinding molten core over and over to take all challenge out of a game, cause that is WoW endgame. And the moment they raise the level cap, due to them not having any level caps, all current difficult content will suddenly lose all challenge. But thats what you want, right? A reliable grind to get phat lewt without presenting anything new.

take "molton core" and replace it with "sky"

then take "Sea" and replace it with "Black wing lair"

2 teirs of endgame difficulty in two diffrent games, but the simalarities end there. first it dosen't take six months to get one shot at the boss of Black Wing Lair, mabye your first shot, but once you reach him you should be able to clear to him again much sooner than it will take you to pop JoL a second time. Oh and Black wing lair gear is actually better than Molton core gear??? why would they do that

I like ffxi I really do, I think the jobs in idea are all very cool if they were balanced(like drk/nin wtf??? the fact this is the best xp build for drk means the class is broken, it has two A rated weapons and prefers this build??? and there is a multi attack Gswd and drk cant equip it). I personally enjoyed working my way to 75, but one of my best irl friends plays WoW and the endgame seems so appealing in that game. It's funny I look at the builds people use in that game, and I think there is still a lot of builds yet to be exploited (much like how war/nin was originally not thought to be a dd.) IMO if they are going to continue to balance the gear added to the game on gear already existant, how are you to expand your character?

The probable AV drops are beyond amazing too, like a BETTER SPEED BELT.

we already know his drops, and they are pretty decent, the rings and the GKT would be farmed at a 3king level if he could be popped idk say once a week or so. but at once every six months I see no reason to try until someone figures out how to kill him. It's fun to be the first to do something, but 6 months for a whipe? no thanks.

[alatunos]

I figure I'll post my opinion here (why I have no clue) about what you said Mr. Maxx.

AF2+1: Though not much better, it is STRICTLY better than the AF2 you guys even say is good stuff. And the cost isn't THAT big even, yet presented in a challenging fashion.
Ok, it's slightly better, grats. I'm glad I've put in however long I've been playing this game to have new gear!!!!!!! oh wait....it's just the same gear but "a lil modified". Let's also not mention I believe you need the AF2 which some people may have good drops in dynamis....but alot of people don't have the best drops in Dynamis.

Bahamut Rewards: We havent even seen them all but the staff for SMNs looks to repace freakin HQ elemental staves... 6 free inventory spaces is amazing.
Can't comment on this, since it's not really known how it will be able to be obtained....but let's go with the "work real hard for 1 item, so work it out everyone! ^^;"

AF Belts and Capes: Many of these things are amazing, specifically WAR DRK and THF
Ok, a new challenging dynamis...that's fine and dandy. Once everything is figured out, I can guarantee it will turn into the same mindless farm session that is "doing something over and over again for years"

King Vinegaroon: Ace's Helm is awesome and yet I dont see it camped much, why is that?
You're right on this one, although it can easily be pushed out of a reasonable playtime window for people that actually have that 'life' thing like a job/school/wife/kids/all of the above. OH, and gathering people for no drops also is a great morale booster.

Homam and Nashira: Great items, each piece is awesome for at least one job (barring Nashira Feet perhaps)
I like to call this road 3 weeks for 1-4 items. While getting beastcoins in the mix. Which you're trying to make everyone happy (well, you hope you are, but with the fact it takes 3+ weeks to get 1-3 items for that 18 dedicated person group, you can't make everyone happy)

AF+1: This stuff rocks and is obtainable as a long term goal.
See above. Also, regarding the beastcoin thing, you can get a few coins and get the items and this can be somewhat a reasonable thing within that 3+ weeks you're dedicating to Homam/Nashira

Other Ancient Currency Thingies: Ditto AF+1... Brutal Earring is such a wet dream
Feasible with small groups, but all in all, grats to people using coins as a group to reward 1 person every week. 6 man group can get everyone an item in roughly 7-8 runs (3ish weeks). Getting an alliance is roughly (estimated) 3 months. Again, for 1 item.

Sea God Drops: alot of typed stuff
Again, the time frame to MAYBE get 1 drop for 1 person. Wash Rinse Repeat the following: Time, Real Lives, Happiness of members, End Result over time

July's Popping NMs: alot of typed stuff some items, not 100% drop with Rare trigger item. Yea, that was smart thinking. Oh, and nothing beats doing alastor 18+ times since everyone and their dead grandmother has blm levelled.

CoP missions: Ok this doesn't really qualify as endgame, but truely anybody who hasn't tried these using their heads instead of a guide has missed out on a great challenge. They are BY FAR the best missions in the game, especially for somebody who likes past FFs.
1) You did these awhile ago, you're caught up every patch with the story. Rings were a great reward imo. Thought maybe this would be a new trend. If it is, I'm still waiting for that trend to start.

Just because you are level 75 on 4 jobs doesnt mean you cant have fun exploring the possibilities of having a NPC.
This is exactly what I wanted to do with my gaming experience. Level up my npc. I did not want any gear that came out 2 years ago OR EVEN RECENTLY. I wanted to (quoting someone, can't remember who) watch my lil AI Buddy use Tachi: Enpi.

Hell, there is a lot of KS and capped BCNMs that are VERY difficult that you seem to not even notice and I doubt you have tried.
Maybe true, but alot of people HAVE done these believe it or not. And if you haven't, don't worry....it turns into the same farming session, but can be pretty rewardable for some.

But anyways, enjoy grinding molten core over and over to take all challenge out of a game, cause that is WoW endgame. And the moment they raise the level cap, due to them not having any level caps, all current difficult content will suddenly lose all challenge. But thats what you want, right? A reliable grind to get phat lewt without presenting anything new.
Last time I checked, you're not competing with the rest of the server to get claim on MC.

All in all, alot of the stuff has been alot of effort that requires a long period of time, with alot of disappointment and very little reward for the time you've put in. All this, while continuing your school/work/life/kids/etc/all of the above. This is not fun, this is a job. A job that you're paying for. Grats. I'll remember to get a divorce and quit my job, cause FFXI > Life.

Oh yea, I'm also not a dentist or asking my parents for cash to buy gil for that Kraken Club and Enhancing Sword RDM/NIN self and saying "I NPC'd pebbles for this stuff! ^^;" when you just dinged 70 on your first job as rdm.

Sorry to be a negative nancy.

[Maxxthepenguin]

take "molton core" and replace it with "sky"

then take "Sea" and replace it with "Black wing lair"

I find these endgame areas fundimentally different in so many ways, but this is drawing from my word of mouth from friends.
It seems like Molten Core and Blackwing Lair are much more of isolated areas, more like how dynamis or a promyvion is, whereas the whole tier system of Sea and Sky is something absent from WoW...but maybe they just told me wrong. I personally like having things drawn out like this, less time needed doing that one thing and more things over time.

(like drk/nin wtf??? the fact this is the best xp build for drk means the class is broken, it has two A rated weapons and prefers this build??? and there is a multi attack Gswd and drk cant equip it)

This is just because of Ridill's inherint overpoweredness... otherwise DRK/WAR or DRK/THF will always outdamage it... if it wouldnt piss everybody off I would think purging all Ridills would be the best idea to balance some endgame exp content... maybe send some kind of penguin mafia to steal all of them or something... but thats just a personal beef

In general to Xavier: Actually no I havent been to Sea... I admit my view might be a grass is greener on the other side view but I also KNOW that it is difficult for people to adapt in this game so I really don't know if it is just an unwillingness or a really bad design decision.

Now specifics:

Read: replace, not improve. My idea of improved gear is gear that does just that, is improved. Seeing as how you physically cannot summon all the avatars at the same time, this improves nothing.

In my mind the fact that it replaces 8 items is kinda a big improvement... kind of like if they added a sack for staves alone. It opens up other possibilities. It also adds summoning skill, which is definately an improvement.

80% of AF2 is garbage. Improving shit by such an absurdly small amount leaves you w/ polished shit.

I pretty much agree to this but the fact remains that though you get 80% polished shit, 20%*(16*5)=16 good new pieces of armor to earn in there. And for the record I find more of it useful than 80%...but that doesnt change the fact that the majority is crap (look at DRK AF2 legs)

Have you ever camped him? I had to camp him for 7 hours one day, grabbed him right before I was ready to leave, marathon him solo for 5 minutes while our LS came. The drop rate on helm is supposedly bad, I've only claimed and killed him once, no drop.

From what I heard, the drop rate on the helm is around 40-50%. For camping advice, check the weather NPCs. I would never sit there alone for 7 hours in this game (anymore...)

Uh, we maxed out everyone who wanted the gear within 2 weeks of them coming out. They're the same as Hakutaku....semi-difficult mobs but hardly endgame material. People care, they've just gotten everything they had as soon as they came out.

My point is they are definately something that a LS can spend a good amount of time on before getting them done. Considering BG's relative hardcoreness, 2 weeks is pretty good for this kind of content.

And for the record, the jab at WoW was uncalled for yeah, but I have a friend who keeps bitching at me to play WoW who just left... needed to let off steam, sorry bout that. I'd play but it lacks what I really want in an MMO. I played it a good amount (got a char to 30ish) and got frustrated because, aside from RL friends, it was hard for me to find people to do anything with in it. I like people in my MMO which is why I like FFXI...WoW is so lonely sometimes.