Cheryll - The Ideal SAM/WAR

[Xavier]

and afaik you can't hack a win on stuff like Vrtra.

Er well, hacking him up to spook camp is a good start.

[Exoduso]

I don't understand why people can't get over it heh, it was a one time thing that didn't even work... plus it was before the merger with Genesis.

[Nirokun!]

Xav, i want to have your babies!

[SendoBismarck]

Meh, in all of the past 10 months that I've been co-leader of IRON I can honestly and positively say that we have never cheated, so there's your official statement. Believe what you want since nothing can change your opinion .

My comments stop here as I dislike threads like this, nothing ever gets solved. However, if you still have any doubts Mr. Pussy-Who-Can't-Post-Under-His-Real-Name feel free to watch us kill Tiamat or anything you want, send me a tell if you need a schedule list of events.

Removing darters is cheating too! <3

Note the underlined part. LS's change believe it or not over 2-3 years that they exist, and this "darter thing" in question lasted for about a week BEFORE atleast 75% of the current members joined from either the merger or recruiting later. Nice try.

EDIT: IRON Videos: visual proof of crap if you need it, but most of that stuff is a couple months old.

[XxSlusherxx]

Why would you give a Sam a ridell if they cannot sub both war and nin at the same time anyway

This has to be the least constructive I have been to any thread ever, but seriously, who cares, can you imagine how awsome that would be to be a sam/war/nin, if I could merit as one for one day I would quit ffxi the next, there would be nothing left for me.

[kearnsy]

Meh, in all of the past 10 months that I've been co-leader of IRON I can honestly and positively say that we have never cheated, so there's your official statement. Believe what you want since nothing can change your opinion .

My comments stop here as I dislike threads like this, nothing ever gets solved. However, if you still have any doubts Mr. Pussy-Who-Can't-Post-Under-His-Real-Name feel free to watch us kill Tiamat or anything you want, send me a tell if you need a schedule list of events.

Removing darters is cheating too! <3

Note the underlined part. LS's change believe it or not over 2-3 years that they exist, and this "darter thing" in question lasted for about a week BEFORE atleast 75% of the current members joined from either the merger or recruiting later. Nice try.

Oh I don't care if you remove darters, I'm just saying that it's a form of cheating too if you want to be nitpicking. 90% of end-game linkshells remove darters, nothing new.

[SendoBismarck]

Splendid? And I'm saying we're part of the 10% that don't? Your statement sounded like an accusation, forgive me if I'm wrong.

[Exoduso]

Cheryll also has DRK WAR and NIN at 75... he didn't get the Ridill for his SAM.

Plus, his gear isn't "all that great" because the slacker dlvled to 74 and lost all his god gear and stuff.

[kearnsy]

Splendid? And I'm saying we're part of the 10% that don't? Your statement sounded like an accusation, forgive me if I'm wrong.

I'm saying I find it hard to believe that no one in your LS alters files, again I could give two shits if you do or not - you're not on my server doesn't phase me in the slightest.

[XxSlusherxx]

meripo pt

sam/war/nin x4
bard
redmage

discuss...

[mdn]

who brings a sam? nin, nin, nin, war ftw

(substitute mnk if you want)

[Xavier]

I think hes saying in the situation where you can have a sub-sub job, in which case that'd be retardedly overpowered w/ vorpal spam.

[XxSlusherxx]

who brings a sam? nin, nin, nin, war ftw

(substitute mnk if you want)

if your trying to be realistic, who brings ninjas?? I mean sure if you can't find 4 wars, but 3xnin your luck was bad friend.

[Genosync]

2xBRD 4xNIN FTW

[Nikko]

nin double subbed only get 1 shadow w/ utsusemi... but the dual wield still owns.

nerf double subbed nin

[Fayth-]

who brings a sam? nin, nin, nin, war ftw

(substitute mnk if you want)

if your trying to be realistic, who brings ninjas?? I mean sure if you can't find 4 wars, but 3xnin your luck was bad friend.

NIN with DD setup > all 8)

[dirk]

Ok, as a debate over whether this person has hacked, glitched, been a victim of a hoax, this thread is all over the place. The thing has gone everwhere from random off-topic posts to accusations that IRON removed darter files, which isn't even part of the whole argument. Therefore, I'm going to separate things into a few issues that are actually relevant.

To preface things, let me start by saying that I'm not going to tell people I'm on a different server, or even on Bismarck and not interested in the HNMLS because for one thing, no one will believe it anyway, and for another, it doesn't matter. To accuse somone of lying because they're posting anonymously is what is known as logic as a "straw man" debate. You can't refute what the actual argument is, so you find some other way to attack them and refute their argument with that.

Which leads us to our first argument, and I'll just keep going from there:

1) This SS is a hoax because it's a new poster just wanting to cause problems: Doesn't matter. The SS speaks for itself. Whether it was posted by a level 23 no subjob MNK or the head honcho of SE itself, the SS is the important thing, not the voice. The person who took the SS appears to have posted under his own name, so I'm not sure why this is an issue anyway.

2) Why didn't the person taking the SS focus on the kraken club: This is pretty obvious...the point wasn't to show equipment, but to show that a job without dual-wield had two weapons equipped. Again, unless you subscribe to some pretty extremist MMORPG conspiracy theories, there is no reason to think Verix got a different account to post this SS, so there's no reason to think he was out to prove anything. Anyone with the ability to seamlessly photoshop the weapon into the screenshot could've also photoshopped in the kraken club description. This doesn't seem like a big deal to me.

3) The image is a hoax: Maybe. There's no good way to prove that. I've used photoshop before, and I took the SS into photoshop and examined it, and it doesn't appear to be one. Of course, if I could tell that for sure, I could probably find a better job. As referenced to earlier, if someone was doing this as a hoax, it seems like they could spend the extra time to put in the description of the kraken club and make it more believable.

4) It was just a glitch: Again, possible. I don't believe it, though, and that's because of my next point.

5) IRON has no idea what happened: Bullshit. IRON members have been posting on here saying everything from the SS is a hoax to a glitch, but the truth is, they should know. When people find a glitch, they immediately tell their LS, whether it's something like this, the ability to walk along the outside of the airship, or the ability to walk under the water in Valkurm. They tell people, and everyone knows this is true. If this SAM suddenly discovered she could dual-wield as a SAM/WAR, it's very hard to believe she didn't say anything instead of typing in "/l HAY YOU GUYZ! GUESS WHAT I CAN DO???" To me, this is sort of the pivotal point. If it were a glitch, IRON would know because they would have been told. If it were a hoax, IRON would know because they weren't told about the glitch. If it's a hack, IRON would know but then throw up every other possible thing it could be as a defense...which IRON has done.

6) It's obviously a hack because IRON has hacked before: Who cares? A lot has been made about removing darter files. I've heard about this, I don't know what most HNMLSs do, and I certainly don't know what they do on Bismarck. Regardless, what one person does in a LS (since it seems to be agreed it was not the same person) is not proof of what everyone else does. Same goes with packet sniffers. Being on PS2 never helped me outclaim anyone on VE, but oh well. That's a different argument involving different people. What IRON has or has not done in the past has nothing to do with this post.

7) It can't be a hack because she did it in Jeuno: And, of course, that would make it obvious, right? Seems to me that this is just a matter of a "they wouldn't be THAT stupid" alibi. I think more people would believe this if it were taken at an HNM camp than in Jeuno. So there's no reason to NOT do it in Jeuno. Also, who knows the circumstances? She could've just released from dying at an HNM, or been warped from, whatever.

Conclusion: Personally, I think she used some sort of hack to do this, mainly because of my point 5. IRON would know something about this, their "well it must be this this or this" and "zomg we didn't hack back then" and "zomg you don't count because you posted anonymously hahaha" arguments just seem to prove that they know something they won't admit.

Feel free to attack me for this being my first post if you want. If you have any brains, though, you can actually deal with my arguments instead of making up new ones. I'd be interested to see any defenses.

[aurik]

Alternatively, none of their members know what the fuck is going on (likely) and the ones who do (if there are any) are being smart and acting like they don't.

[dirk]

Alternatively, none of their members know what the fuck is going on (likely) and the ones who do (if there are any) are being smart and acting like they don't.

Kind of my point...there's no reason to act like you don't know what's going on if it's just a funny one-time glitch. To paraphrase, me thinks the LS doth protest too much.

[Jawas]

Ok, as a debate over whether this person has hacked, glitched, been a victim of a hoax, this thread is all over the place. The thing has gone everwhere from random off-topic posts to accusations that IRON removed darter files, which isn't even part of the whole argument. Therefore, I'm going to separate things into a few issues that are actually relevant.

To preface things, let me start by saying that I'm not going to tell people I'm on a different server, or even on Bismarck and not interested in the HNMLS because for one thing, no one will believe it anyway, and for another, it doesn't matter. To accuse somone of lying because they're posting anonymously is what is known as logic as a "straw man" debate. You can't refute what the actual argument is, so you find some other way to attack them and refute their argument with that.

Which leads us to our first argument, and I'll just keep going from there:

1) This SS is a hoax because it's a new poster just wanting to cause problems: Doesn't matter. The SS speaks for itself. Whether it was posted by a level 23 no subjob MNK or the head honcho of SE itself, the SS is the important thing, not the voice. The person who took the SS appears to have posted under his own name, so I'm not sure why this is an issue anyway.

2) Why didn't the person taking the SS focus on the kraken club: This is pretty obvious...the point wasn't to show equipment, but to show that a job without dual-wield had two weapons equipped. Again, unless you subscribe to some pretty extremist MMORPG conspiracy theories, there is no reason to think Verix got a different account to post this SS, so there's no reason to think he was out to prove anything. Anyone with the ability to seamlessly photoshop the weapon into the screenshot could've also photoshopped in the kraken club description. This doesn't seem like a big deal to me.

3) The image is a hoax: Maybe. There's no good way to prove that. I've used photoshop before, and I took the SS into photoshop and examined it, and it doesn't appear to be one. Of course, if I could tell that for sure, I could probably find a better job. As referenced to earlier, if someone was doing this as a hoax, it seems like they could spend the extra time to put in the description of the kraken club and make it more believable.

4) It was just a glitch: Again, possible. I don't believe it, though, and that's because of my next point.

5) IRON has no idea what happened: Bullshit. IRON members have been posting on here saying everything from the SS is a hoax to a glitch, but the truth is, they should know. When people find a glitch, they immediately tell their LS, whether it's something like this, the ability to walk along the outside of the airship, or the ability to walk under the water in Valkurm. They tell people, and everyone knows this is true. If this SAM suddenly discovered she could dual-wield as a SAM/WAR, it's very hard to believe she didn't say anything instead of typing in "/l HAY YOU GUYZ! GUESS WHAT I CAN DO???" To me, this is sort of the pivotal point. If it were a glitch, IRON would know because they would have been told. If it were a hoax, IRON would know because they weren't told about the glitch. If it's a hack, IRON would know but then throw up every other possible thing it could be as a defense...which IRON has done.

6) It's obviously a hack because IRON has hacked before: Who cares? A lot has been made about removing darter files. I've heard about this, I don't know what most HNMLSs do, and I certainly don't know what they do on Bismarck. Regardless, what one person does in a LS (since it seems to be agreed it was not the same person) is not proof of what everyone else does. Same goes with packet sniffers. Being on PS2 never helped me outclaim anyone on VE, but oh well. That's a different argument involving different people. What IRON has or has not done in the past has nothing to do with this post.

7) It can't be a hack because she did it in Jeuno: And, of course, that would make it obvious, right? Seems to me that this is just a matter of a "they wouldn't be THAT stupid" alibi. I think more people would believe this if it were taken at an HNM camp than in Jeuno. So there's no reason to NOT do it in Jeuno. Also, who knows the circumstances? She could've just released from dying at an HNM, or been warped from, whatever.

Conclusion: Personally, I think she used some sort of hack to do this, mainly because of my point 5. IRON would know something about this, their "well it must be this this or this" and "zomg we didn't hack back then" and "zomg you don't count because you posted anonymously hahaha" arguments just seem to prove that they know something they won't admit.

Feel free to attack me for this being my first post if you want. If you have any brains, though, you can actually deal with my arguments instead of making up new ones. I'd be interested to see any defenses.

1st off Cheryll doesnt own a Kracken Club.

2nd off the Glitch is with Verix not Cheryll, he has a Kracken, and we guess somehow when he checked Cheryll, HIS off handed weapon was shown on Cherylls off handed weapon slot. How would IRON know that Verix had a glitch appear on his screen.

3rd You say that because we have defended ourselves it makes us seem guilty. Well when the thread was posted on our site we didnt defend it, we just deleted it cause the person wasnt using their real name, and we get all kinds of random people with fake names making posts all the time. We normally do not respond to public forums, so were damned if we do and damned if we dont.

Point is, Bismarck believe it or not is actually really clean in the HNM scene. The top NA LSs dont train each other, we dont CFH on another LS's claim, we actually work shit out. We were in the process of talking to the LS leaders of the person who took the screen shot when this post was made. Take it for what you will.