Diablos vs Wyrms = h4x

[Okan]

I still say only RDMs are the only people who appreciate the Phalanx effect.

Yup. When I see people say that it's "only" a 20 reduction I want to fly to Square headquarters and porkslap the asshole who decided to give AoE Phalanx to the ungrateful masses...

"It's only 20 damage..."
20>40>60>80>100 (That's one cure II saved.)
120>140>160>180>200 (Cure III)...
220>240>260>280>300 (Cure III and Cure II)
320>340>360>380>400> Cure IV!

....... you get my point. It'll add up over time the same way Avesta uses Bio II to kill things......... over time.

[Lockecole]

....... you get my point. It'll add up over time the same way Avesta uses Bio II to kill things......... over time.

Yup, its all of the little things that people ignore that seperate those who can kill shit from those who cant. DoT doesnt matter, enmity doesnt matter, conserving MP doesnt matter....and in the end it all adds up.

[FFXIFlux]

"It's only 20 damage..."
20>40>60>80>100 (That's one cure II saved.)
120>140>160>180>200 (Cure III)...
220>240>260>280>300 (Cure III and Cure II)
320>340>360>380>400> Cure IV!

....... you get my point. It'll add up over time the same way Avesta uses Bio II to kill things......... over time.

Nocto < Aerial Armor on anything thats hard enough to tank that you'd care to use a summoner in the first place.

[BRP]

Unless he is a NIN? ;o

[GRT]

actually i don't think it's 20 damage

tested with another smn in pvp, using diabolos against diabolos and both put up phalanx effect, and use the consistant damage BP that is the nether blast

both diabolos only had 10 points damage difference before and after the phalanx effect, using nether blast

unless if you say diabolos themselves have a 50% natural damage reduction, then it's probably 20 points for normal players

anyone is welcome to disprove this, but it really seem like 10 to me when i tested it, or at most 15 when it's mob hitting me instead of diabolos

[Khamsin]

It depends what you're fighting, really, whether you use Aerial Armor or Noctoshield (this choice only applies to PLD).

e.g. if you are fighting something that hits once every 4 seconds, then in one minute your PLD will get hit 15 times, saving 15x20 = 300 damage. Aerial Armor will save 3 hits worth of damage per minute. If your PLD is getting hit for more than 100 damage per hit, using Aerial Armor is better. If he's getting hit for under 100 damage per hit, using Noctoshield is better.

If you are fighting something that hits three times as fast, getting in 45 hits per minute, Noctoshield would save 900 damage per minute. Think about that next time you do Byakko.

Granted, Noctoshield lasts 3 min and does not need to be recast every minute. So you may want to combine both, or certainly if you use Noctoshield, you can just use Aerial Armor the next two minutes.

[Tanthalas]

Since Phalanx is damage reduction against magic and physical, even if it's a small # like 20 (which by tests in Diorama, it seems to be more of a % than a stataic #, more tests TBA), you have to keep in mind it's for the entire PT. Against any type of mob that uses AoE's (thinking Hurricane Wing, Blasts, Touchdowns), it's a LOT less hate for the recovery Curaga's. Why do you think tank PT's like to use Earthen Ward? It's not because the extra 200 HP buffer's gonna make or break the tank's life expectancy-- usually they lose their SS long before your blood pact is up (think one attack while Tiamat's in the air). It's extra hate control. Always better to proactively prevent HP loss rather than reacting with cures.

[niwaar]

I have read the entire thread and want to just say while you guys make good points about Diabolos vs Wyrm (or any other HNM for that matter). However, during our first post Diabolos Tiamat kill today it wasn't neccessarily Noctoshield that made things smoother for us. Sure it did make a considerable difference for our tank party, relieving quite a bit of the need for some cures. Yet, we saw more of a large reduction for the alliance a whole from Dream Shroud's Magic Defense Bonus attributes.

Today we had 5 SMN in the alliance, while our tank party was PLD, NIN, WAR/WHM. The warrior lessening the reliance on carby and giving the smn more of a chance to use diabolos' buffs. Like I said though, Dream Shroud was kept up virtually at all times. The reduction of AOE damage from Tebbid Wing was fairly extreme. Not even removing Stoneskin on several mage's in the BLM party, the boost reduced damage quite a bit. From what I am told Tiamat's in air attacks are non elemental magic based attacks and Shroud's defense bonuse reduced this as well. Nether Blast is nice and all but it really isn't going to help all that much except maybe to keep her from regenning too much in the air. All in all he proved quite a useful tool in our ls's fastest fight to date. We look forward to trying the demon out again on something else soon.

[Tanthalas]

Yes, Tiamat's attacks during flight are pure magic. You should see how weak he hits WHM's and RDM's when he's in the air. Where he'd hit PLD's and WAR's for 150+, he'd only do like 40 to the mages. MDB is very useful indeed for this and also against other magic based AoE's. I wonder if MDB would help with Hurricane Wing.

[FFXIFlux]

I wonder if MDB would help with Hurricane Wing.

It does, it takes off 1% per MDB. Shell 4 takes off 20% IIRC.

[Nagamaki]

MDB/Shell help with most non-blinkable AoE, because the majority are considered magic based even if they're not actually spells. Goes from basic stuff like Cursed Sphere from flies to Hurricane Wing.

If its AoE and wipes (removes entirely regardless of shadow count, not just damages if you have 1-2 left like say Whirl of Rage) or ignores shadows, Shell and MDB will reduce the damage.

[Bryn]

Long time reader, first time poster. Also been experimenting with Noctoshield, and found the following:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...octoshield.jpg

The PLD and I should have taken 333 damage. Avatars take half damage normally from 1000 needles. Diabolos and I got 13 damage shaved off and PLD got 29 damage shaved off. My defense was 255ish and PLD's was 570ish. My current theory: Defense/20=amount reduced by Noctoshield.

Disprove me? Still need more testing. Is it Defense, Vit, or HP? If the former, and my formula holds, then 999 defense / 20 = 49.75, or 50 damage shaved off each attack. How valuable is that to you?

[Kuropiko]

Long time reader, first time poster.

About your theory, let's think about something.

- Dream Shroud seems to have a random factor for Magic Attack Bonus.
- Ruinous Omen has a random effect.

Could Noctoshield give some kind of random Phalanx too ? I didn't test it a lot too, this could just be wrong.

As for the PLD, did he have some item that would reduce any kind of damage he takes ? Like Jelly Rings reduces Physical Damage Taken by 5% (i think 1000 needles is considered physical).

[chilicheese]

yes, jelly ring is -5% phys damage reduction..

(333-13)x.95=304

[Zigma]

Yes, Tiamat's attacks during flight are pure magic. You should see how weak he hits WHM's and RDM's when he's in the air. Where he'd hit PLD's and WAR's for 150+, he'd only do like 40 to the mages. MDB is very useful indeed for this and also against other magic based AoE's. I wonder if MDB would help with Hurricane Wing.

40??? you're smoking crack.

[Bryn]

yes, jelly ring is -5% phys damage reduction..

(333-13)x.95=304

Good point, and I forgot to note whether he had a Jelly Ring. I need a PLD with a greater selection of gear who is actually responsive to my requests and questions.

Chiri, help find me a willing PLD test subject. ;_;

[chilicheese]

what was your summoning skill including gear at the time diabolos used noctoshield? the best bet is that its based off of that rather than something on the player. giving a smn and a pld the same damage reduction seems to rule out being a % increase off of player VIT HP or defense.

[Bryn]

Already accounted for that. The first tests I did were just with me and Diabolos. With 269 smn skill (cap, no +smn skill items), I got 13 reduction. With 296 (added in my +smn skill items) I got 13 damage reduction. If it's every 50 smn skill or something, I wouldn't be able to tell, unless I got a few more +smn skill items. Only ones left are the austere boots, smn earring, and Relic+1 gloves.

The reason I think Defense, is because of what a few people are saying about their PLDs getting 20-30 damage reduction per hit with Noctoshield up. Avalonx mentioned defense, as something he heard from another SMN in Ballista. At the very least, I want to test this and either confirm it, or rule it out.

I suppose your WAR could work as well, and we could do tests with you naked, then with full tanking gear and defender on.

[chilicheese]

the reasons paladins are saying 20-30 damage reduction is i doubt they were testing it on 1000 needles, and were just giving a rough estimate on damage reduction.

[Zetah]

I am one of those tanks that say 20-30 damage, mainly because Bahamut hit me for 108 on my nin without stoneskin on at one point. I'd like to do a lot of tests with it on my PLD.