How would you fix inflation?

[NynJa]

If that were the case, it would be known...

[Ragnard]

I was running around windurst 2 days ago, and I checked someones bazaar:
-Rank 6
-lv64 thief
-AFAIK this is their only job
-allready had a SH on

contents of the bazaar included a Dragon Harness.



RMT is getting too far out of fucking hand.

Topical at all? RMT != currency inflation. See nsx's post in previous pages.

I like Sept's idea of currency available through NPC! It would sink huge amounts of money out of the game from high level players, without harming lowbies who are just getting started. Seems like a great plan. It would also give the currency market a bit more of a concret price threshhold.

Septimus saves FFXI!

[XxSlusherxx]

Armor upgrading is one I have been tinkering with. I would say weapon, but the issue there is at 75....you run the risk of upgrading a weapon beyond that of a Relic Weapon. Granted...general concensus is that 90% of relic weapons crap, we still cannot take that away from those who have completed them

Now, on to Armor upgrading. SE has implemented this for AF with Limbus, and AFv2 with the new Dynamis areas. However, these upgrades do not take gil...just drops from said areas, some of which are annoying as hell. What I am proposing is an NPC who will add stats to non-AF armor. Be it purchased, crafted, or dropped, rare/ex or not...this NPC can add stats, abilities to your gear...for a price of course. What upgrades are available are dependant on the level/type of armor. For example:

1-10 Armor: No upgrades.

10-20 Armor: A few. Melee armor could have some HP/STR/DEX/AGI added, Mage armor could have MP/CHR/MND/INT added. Prices for upgrades would be in 1000-9999 range.

20-30 Armor: Same as above. Maybe a few more boosts. Prices rise to upto 20000

30-50 Armor: Along with the above...attack accuracy, and the like are now options. Certain upgrades will cost upto 500k

50-75 Armor: Now the big boys. Auto-Refresh, Regen, Double Attack, and the like are now options. But these will cost you up to 10 million.

To balance things out, every armor will not have every option available to it. Someone cannot take an Errant Houppelande and turn it into an Osode...but as it is mage gear...Auto-Refresh could be added for 5 million.

To allow for +1 armor, these +1's would have more options open to them than the NQ's from the NPC. For example, Dragon Harness could have Triple Attack +5% added to it for 10 million. Dragon Harness+1 could have Triple Attack +8% added to it for the same price. This makes the +1 still wanted. This means crafters will be cranking out the armor synths, possibly buying materials from NPC's....removing more gil from the system.

All upgraded armor becomes Rare/Ex.

This system would allow players to customize theuir armor to suite their game play. Are you a SMN who like to solo...spend millions on getting a free Fenrir...or are you a SMN who likes big damage in a short time (like me)...spend millions on Avatar Attack and -BP timer. And the best part....billions of gil woul be removed as every HNMLS would have its players dumping all their money to pimp out their gil.

Nothing can stop the inflation because its due to mass duping, but regardless, thats a really nice system that will never get implemented but would own pretty hard if it was. WoW has something similar w/ enchanting gear, pretty nice way to pimp out already pimp gear.

Time for the double edged WoW sword that is Slusher, yes this is cool in WoW It would be really cool, but it would need to be much stronger than it is in WoW if it's going to be the end of inflation. In FFXI a peice of armor for a job that focuses on AGI that has +15 agi, is far and away the best item they can have in that slot. in WoW +15 agi in one slot is, teir 1(of 3) endgame gear name your slot. AGI enchant on a weapon I belive is 7, I think but I'm completely unsure on armor it's as low as +2, translated to FFXI numbers that enchanting items for 1-3 agi, people won't pay millions for that.

[Ragnard]

translated to FFXI numbers that enchanting items for 1-3 agi, people won't pay millions for that.

I agree that it's not a good way to combat inflation...but people pay tens of millions for HQs that add very little in terms of stats. I sold a Genie Weskit for 73 million (vs 4M NQ at the time). 69 million gil for 1 more ele skill, 1 more defense, and 1 more magic attack?

Or compare the price between +4 rings and the elemental ore +5 rings. According to the AH histories, +1 to a base stat is worth millions, for sure!

I think HQing/enchanting gear would fetch a pretty penny!

[XxSlusherxx]

no your right. I personally didn't buy a flame ring even close to when I hit 75. Sometimes I need to learn to speak for myself

[FFXIFlux]

I like Sept's idea of currency available through NPC! It would sink huge amounts of money out of the game from high level players, without harming lowbies who are just getting started. Seems like a great plan. It would also give the currency market a bit more of a concret price threshhold.

Septimus saves FFXI!

They do need to do something along these lines as the new Dynamis areas have made coins RARER. Thought Sage Sundi gave the impression they were about where they wanted or maybe a little too rare... With mobs in the new zones dropping 0-2 instead of 0-4, and time cap being 2 hours instead of 4, but people forced to do these zones for the AF2+ and capes/belts, and being on the same timer as the more lucrative dynamis zones, we're going to see fewer coins out there (1/2 to 1/4 for a new area run compared to same number of peope in an old it seems) and thus more expensive.

[Septimus]

People would probably not pay millions of gil for 1-3 AGI on a weapon, but I would pay 10,000 - 20,000 gil for someone to sharpen my Joyeuse.

I think the best way to do this would be temporary boosts to weapons and armor, like if I pay an NPC 20k to sharpen my Joyeuse (5 extra damage) and that lasts a certain number of attacks. When that quota is met, it goes back to being a normal Joyeuse but I can go and get it sharpened again. You could do this in all sorts of ways, polishing jewelry that lasts a week or two- INT rings get Magic Attack Bonus, MND rings get magical accuracy, DEX rings get accuracy, maybe even have it so that there could be several types of polishes for different kinds of rings, so that you could get one MND ring with MAB and a second MND ring with magical accuracy. (Of course, you could not sell an item while it was sharpened or polished.)

It would not be a huge drain like Dynamis currency from a NPC, but it would be a steady drain on the economy that would keep inflation down.

[Sonomaa]

wow, I really like that idea

/sends sole remaining galka mule to septs moghouse

[NynJa]

I was running around windurst 2 days ago, and I checked someones bazaar:
-Rank 6
-lv64 thief
-AFAIK this is their only job
-allready had a SH on

contents of the bazaar included a Dragon Harness.



RMT is getting too far out of fucking hand.

Topical at all? RMT != currency inflation. See nsx's post in previous pages.

Dude, prices for everything is going up. I dont know about yourserver, but on my server, ANYTHING that has a drop worth more than 1 mil, there are gilsellers on it.

if you think RMT isnt tied to the inflation, you're fucking naive, and a gilbuyer.


Remember those threads of people who "support FI selling abjus are the ones who buy those abjus", why doesnt this situation apply here ??

[Lasitha]

LOL, let's all just overprice items. When the demand for gil augments, so will the prices, and then less people will buy gil, in less amounts and then the items will slowly return to it's prior state.

Unbalance to balance.

[NynJa]

it could be someone with a lvl 75 lvling up a new char ? ever thought of that?

what a lovely coincidence.
I walk into port jeuno to get my Cosmo Cleanse, and what shout do I see ??

AfforementionnedLV64THFwithDHallready : need HL help to Kill Dark Spark @ {Castle Zvahl Baileys} {Please} {Help me out!} {Reward} {/tell} if {Interest}ed.



wheres that other lv75 char, or the HL LS to help them with it ??

my point on RMT stands

[JP_Ikari]

I dunno if this was mentioned (it probably is already), but why doesn't SE create items that rivals that of the crafted items, and make them rare/ex. I mean ABJ's are fine and dandy, but we still have to buy the cursed items, before we can uncurse them. Which in turn making people buy the items they need to uncurse. Part of the reason also, is that I think why most crafted items are so expensive is cause of the countless amounts of ingredients/materials they need to create the items. Ingredients leading to ingredients, leading to more ingredients, just to create 1 item. It's rediculous and it sucks cause no one can do anything about it. All i'm praying for now, is if they do make more HNM's (which i doubt), i hope they drop armors instead of abj's.

JP

[Skyylya]

I read a couple pages so i don't know if this idea was mentioned,

But i think that SE should charge people for merit's, ie. you still need 10,000 xp in order to get the merit, but you can't apply it to your skill chart unless you trade say 100k to an npc. Or you can buy merits from the NPC without the 10k xp for say 1,000,000 gil.

This would help, or it would just stop people from meriting, but considering people have no problem spending an extra 3 mil for an item because none are on the AH i don't think that will happen.

I think the cost of dynamis should also be increased. 1,000,000g cost and getting 20m worth of currency isn't helping inflation.

Really they just need to increase the costs of things like the taxes on bazaars. spread the jueno tax to the entire game, make it so that the tax increase on the AH actually makes the profit decrease.

The AH change was the cause of all this anyway IMO. They added the tax so it would cost people more money to put things up for sale. But the system doesn't work, because the amount of the tax increase is less than the profit gained from increasing the price. All SE did was reward people who want to jack up the price.


I also wouldn't mind if SE just crashed and everyone started out at ground zero. The game was more fun in the beginning, before everyone had everything.

[Ragnard]

I was running around windurst 2 days ago, and I checked someones bazaar:
-Rank 6
-lv64 thief
-AFAIK this is their only job
-allready had a SH on

contents of the bazaar included a Dragon Harness.



RMT is getting too far out of fucking hand.

Topical at all? RMT != currency inflation. See nsx's post in previous pages.

Dude, prices for everything is going up. I dont know about yourserver, but on my server, ANYTHING that has a drop worth more than 1 mil, there are gilsellers on it.

if you think RMT isnt tied to the inflation, you're fucking naive, and a gilbuyer.


Remember those threads of people who "support FI selling abjus are the ones who buy those abjus", why doesnt this situation apply here ??

Nynja. You are a child. Enroll in a course called macroeconomics. Study hard, do your best, and pass the class. Then come back here and let's have a civilized discussion about the root causes of inflation and how to properly regulate the currency inflation and its effects on prices. Pay special attention to the introductory chapters on the basics of supply and demand.

Stop talking out of your ass and spamming BG forums with inane drivel. I like to read these forums at work, but it makes me sad when I read 3-4 of your posts per page on every one of the threads in the ffxi forum.

If you're calling me a gilbuyer because I'm telling you that RMT isn't the cause for widespread currency inflation, you are clearly a dipshit. Go study up on the current thread topic before you post and throw around accusations you have no basis for predicating.

[Ichthyos]

Wow, there was actually some good discussion on this thread from people who understand a bit about economics. I'm not an economist but here are some of my thoughts, some of which digress from the main topic of the thread:

First, let's think a little bit about what money is. The market price of an item at any given time is a reflection of its supply and demand. This in turn is affected by how difficult it is to bring that item into existence, restrictions on how often you can try to do so (Beastman/Kindred Seals, ENM/Limbus/Dynamis timers, Cloud Evokers, Monarch Orbs, Brigand's/Pirates Charts, etc.), how useful the item is to how many people, and how much money these people have. Money in itself is useless; its value lies in the items that you can acquire with it. That said, there are a variety of (related) issues that people are talking about, so let's try to separate them a bit.

A few people seem to be worried about the simple presence of inflation (that is, rising prices) at all. As previously mentioned in this thread, controlled inflation is good for a healthy economy! Steady inflation across the board allows most people to increase their net worth over time even without being conscious of it. That Emperor Hairpin you bought two years ago for 100k is sure worth a lot of gil now. The question, then, is whether you're able to buy more with the money you can sell it for now than you could two years ago. If you're planning on participating in an economy for the long haul, then instead of keeping a lot of money on hand you should invest in (a variety of) things you know will rise in price over time. In real life, you could buy real estate or barrels of oil, for instance. In FF, you can buy pretty much any HQ gear or desirable NM drop as an investment.

The rate of inflation of gil, though, has seemed pretty high to us lately in FFXI. There are countless factors at work here but I think two of the most important ones here are the following. First, there is probably a good number of people who quit the game, and either give their items and gil to friends or sell all their gear and RMT the revenue for real cash. This keeps currency in circulation and in the long run gives more buying power to the people left in the economy, so these people are more welcome to higher prices. In the real world, there are inheritance taxes and income taxes that restrict the flow of money from one person to the next. In FF though, I don't see any practical solution to this problem; not being able to trade money around would just be silly. Second, everyone can sell items they don't want to NPC's which is basically like minting gil. This is a good way to jump start the economy: for instance, when FFXI first came out and there were thousands of players who had little to no gil, it wasn't a problem. Gil needed to be injected into the system anyway. Now though, there are probably hundreds of billions of gil in circulation on each server and hence there's no need for us to have the ability to vendor items. If it's not worth selling on the Auction House, then it's trash and we should be forced to throw it away. You might say that this will hurt new players who won't be able to NPC items for small amounts of gil anymore... but really, new players now rely on the Auction House and quests for their gil anyway. This change would just plug a hole that's been letting gil flow into circulation.

I think S-E has shown that they're concerned lately with doing a good job in attempting to take money out of circulation. With the introduction of the AH tax, more Dynamis areas, and Limbus, more players can now do their part to destroy gil than ever before. Timeless hourglasses should probably be more expensive now, though.

In short, here are my recommendations:
- Remove the ability to sell items to NPC. If it's really worthless to other players, we should have to drop it.
- Remove gil rewards for repeatable quests like the ones involving black tiger fangs and rabbit hides.
- Increase the cost of timeless hourglasses.

[NynJa]

I was running around windurst 2 days ago, and I checked someones bazaar:
-Rank 6
-lv64 thief
-AFAIK this is their only job
-allready had a SH on

contents of the bazaar included a Dragon Harness.



RMT is getting too far out of fucking hand.

Topical at all? RMT != currency inflation. See nsx's post in previous pages.

Dude, prices for everything is going up. I dont know about yourserver, but on my server, ANYTHING that has a drop worth more than 1 mil, there are gilsellers on it.

if you think RMT isnt tied to the inflation, you're fucking naive, and a gilbuyer.


Remember those threads of people who "support FI selling abjus are the ones who buy those abjus", why doesnt this situation apply here ??

Nynja. You are a child. Enroll in a course called macroeconomics. Study hard, do your best, and pass the class. Then come back here and let's have a civilized discussion about the root causes of inflation and how to properly regulate the currency inflation and its effects on prices. Pay special attention to the introductory chapters on the basics of supply and demand.

Stop talking out of your ass and spamming BG forums with inane drivel. I like to read these forums at work, but it makes me sad when I read 3-4 of your posts per page on every one of the threads in the ffxi forum.

If you're calling me a gilbuyer because I'm telling you that RMT isn't the cause for widespread currency inflation, you are clearly a dipshit. Go study up on the current thread topic before you post and throw around accusations you have no basis for predicating.

bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla

Lets see. A year and a half ago, there was the "Rusty Cap Revolution" that "fucked up the economy". Prices on various gear SOARED because gil was brought into the economy at such a rapid rate. The "Rusty Cap Revolution" died out about a year and three months ago. How come, a year and three months later, prices on various items CONTINUE to soar at a rapid rate ??


I guess its the Rusty Cap days...

[Quicklet]

Nynja. You are a child. Enroll in a course called macroeconomics. Study hard, do your best, and pass the class. Then come back here and let's have a civilized discussion about the root causes of inflation and how to properly regulate the currency inflation and its effects on prices. Pay special attention to the introductory chapters on the basics of supply and demand.

Well hallo there, Mr. Economist. It seems you believe that RMT does not have an effect on the impact of inflation in the game. Let me show you why this is not true, and if you disagree with me on anything I can enlighten you as to why your logic is flawed.

First of all, FFXI is not a real economy. MMO economies are not there for realism, they're there for practical reasons and as a part of the entertainment. That is why certain aspects of real economies may not apply to MMOs.

Inflation benefits those closest to the source of new money the most and hurts those who are farthest away from the impact of that new money. Essentially, people who dupe and people who RMT a lot benefit at the expense of other players, because they can get gil almost instantly with no in-game cost and they get to spend it first.

Deflation (moneysinks) hurts those closest to the source of the moneysink and benefits those who are farthest away from those who are impacted by moneysinks.

Do you see the first reason why ANY moneysink will not change the fact that the game's economy is broken thanks to duping and RMT?

[Sekkite]

Skipping reading all of these pages, I'd say there are multiple things that could be done to help curb inflation.

Put items on vendors that are worth it to buy that aren't even higher then the current inflation price.

Make it so there are ways to get decent armor that doesn't rely completely on the economy. The whole game relies way too much on the economy.

Add new items in game besides the two year old haubergeon/scorpion harness/hauberk with similar stats that have crafting materials that are a bit more plentiful then the ones needed for haubergeon/hauberk/scorpion harness.

[Isildur]

probably posted already but oh well, too much to read through

making shit RA/EX, not everything but a good deal of overpriced items should be changed to that format, it would cause a drastic inflation on the non-RA/EX counterpart though, but thats the problem with most people...they dont want to camp for items that they need, instead they RMT a good 15M and buy it instead.

putting a cap on AH prices would be a nice idea but it also has the risk of being exploited so people would always just put items up for the highest possible price.

making new items very similar to overpriced old shit like o. kote, but you have to BCNM for it.


and the foolproof way to fix the economy: ban all RMT / CGF!

[XxSlusherxx]

Stop pretending like NPCs pay top dollar, it's simply not true. I can't see any way for this much money to be in the economy now other than duping.

making new items very similar to overpriced old shit like o. kote, but you have to BCNM for it.

they tried to make an alternative with Baroka, but sadly it sellable, and costs even more than O.kote.