Seriously....

[Nirokun!]

I've had several gay friends, some of which I even know in FFXI in addition to RL. Nothing about a gay persons actions or choices in life make me believe that it is something that was set in stone from the beginning of their life, just like I dont feel ANY choice someone makes, and ANY outcome of someones life is in anyway something they were "born with" or "don't have a choice regarding, etc."

so your friends all chose to be gay? interesting...

So you're comparing something that you believe to be an illness with being gay, and something as trivial as getting hit by rain? Stepping out into the rain is a choice. Regardless of wether or not you wanna realize that.

it was a simple, sarcastic analogy

People are in alot more control of their life then many of us let off to be, and ALOT more then the drug companies want us to think we are. If you think depression isn't a choice of how we deal with issues of our life, and the events in it, and instead that its a medically diagnosable illness, then we definately don't see on level ground. And if you do believe its an illness....you're comparing being gay to it why? Do you believe that is also an illness? I don't see what part of either depression as an illness or being in the rain are in anyway related by your means of comparing the two.

depression is a chemical imbalance in the brain, we use drugs to correct that imbalance. my mom has it, my little brother has it, i have it, im gonna go have an appt. about it soon. Now stop and read this.

Homosexuality is a normal abnormality.

Just like being left handed or having red hair.

I don't have anything against gay people, I do have something against people who try to justify something, but in reality have no real reason why they feel they are justifying it. You obviously, at least relating back to your two examples, aren't very familiar with arguing your points...so I dont see where this discussion will go.

Jesus, it was a simple analogy... Being gay, feeling pain/anguish/lalala from depression, and getting hit by rain by being outside on a raining day...they're not choices. Do you get it now?

Yeah...great example. I could try and make a woman cum by inserting my penis into her ear and say it takes alot of effort to make her cum. No shit, try sticking it somewhere it should be.(Sorry, probably tmi .)

So um, oral sex doesnt feel good? Penises dont belong in mouths, and tongues dont belong on clitorises, but hey, it works. Anal stimulation works too, just try it, stick your finger in your butt for all i care lol

BGforums making my day better and better~ :D

[Akiro]

thats like the church who used the bible to say gays shouldnt be able to get married when the bible contradicts itself and dont ask me the book and verse offhand i dont have a bible with me.

[Carbon]

First Corinthian is what a lot of church leaders base their BS analogies off of.

I'll go worship dragons or something, they're cool and every ancient society has them. 8)

[Kaylia]

Homosexuality is a normal abnormality.

Just like being left handed or having red hair.

Let's make a test. We take 100 homosexual monkey and 100 left handed monkey and see how long both "species" survive.

While I agree both are genetic, and doesn't really matter if you're human, there is one case that is more serious than the other.

[Carbon]

Considering the global average of gays around the world is about 10%, I'd say things will be just fine and dandy.

And yes, it really is 10%.

[Kaylia]

People were saying 5% a few years ago, and even less before. At the rate things are going, there will be a total of 132% gay in 2085.



My point was that certain behavior are "abnormal" since it would lead any non human species to extinction if it's a predominant genetic trait. Left handed/right handed on the other hand (no pun intented ._.) is purely coincidental .

[Lordwafik]

Homosexuality is nature's own birth control, it scales with population.

The more people on earth, higher chance for them to be born homosexual and therefore not reproduce, and therefore not explode in population (humans have their way around this). There was a thing on TV a while back exploring homosexuality in nature, a ton of animals had gay ones among them, especially when their population got too big. However there was also a species of fish, that when their population got very low on males, one of the female fishes would transform over a while into a male fish. Just one of the funny ways nature works.

That 5% then and 10% now is probably because people are admitting it now more than they used to a while ago (it's more socially aceptable now, remember in the 80's where every TV show had an episode with the gay family member/friend who'd open their hearts and make them realize gay people are people too!) which is prolly why you have a higher %. Either that or our global population is now bigger, which has more gay people, naturally.

[Aldondamar]

I think the reason the rate of homosexuals is going up is because society is putting less of a taboo on it. The world will never be purely homosexual, and I really doubt that if it's a gene thing, that it's dominant.

How'd this thread about boobs get turned into this? Well, leave it to the BG forums.

[Elcura]

I think that being gay is a choice, not an obvious one like "hey, i'll be gay today" but just a choice made on long term feelings and emotions like confusion and fustration. Although I can understand how gay people feel that way and I'll in no way say that it's wrong but that's not how I see it personally, I like to believe we have a choice and the freedom to become what we are, not have it somewhat forced upon us by cercumstances.

But you know I guess love is what you want it to be.

Gotta love how a thread about boobs turned into a homosexual thing huh?

[Lordwafik]

Gotta love how a thread about boobs turned into a homosexual thing huh?

BLAME NIROKUN!!!!

[Kaylia]

Homosexuality is nature's own birth control, it scales with population.

Actually, people with the largest number of birth/people have the less known homo. Our country can barely keep a birth rate above 2 per family and have way more homo than anywhere else.

[Septimus]

Don't blame Niro, because I would have eventually gayed this thread up, he just accelerated the process.

So anyway, back to the old "homosexuality as a choice" issue... Let me lay the cards out on the table: sexuality is the desire to mate with males and/or females, sexual preference is rope and/or handcuffs. (I'm partial to rope myself.)

Everytime I hear someone mention "homosexuality" and "choice", it amuses me because I first started to realize that I liked guys more than gals when I was five years old. Yes, in kindergarden I knew that I enjoyed pictures of men more than women, but I didn't understand or accept what that meant for a good 15 years or so.

As for why homosexuals are still around, studies have shown that sisters of gay men tend to have more children than females with no gay brothers, and the same thing seems to hold true for brothers of lesbians. The reason you see such a variation in rates of homosexuality in surveys is normally because of the definition that is used in those surveys. In a fairly famous survey in the early 1990's, the rate for homosexual behavior in men was tracted at 3% and bisexuality in men was tracked at 12%, the flaw in their method was that they tracked sexual partners in the last year- someone who has been celebate for longer than a year was not charted in that survey, and did not account for people who slept with women to try to conform. I'm not saying that this would have a giant affect on the number, but this is a major concern.

So as we can see; homosexuality is not becoming more common, it is not going to cause the species to become extict, and gay marriges will not cause Nazis to ride dinosaurs through the streets.

P.S. Damn this computer without spellcheck.

[Lockecole]

and gay marriges will not cause Nazis to ride dinosaurs through the streets.

That's what the prehistoric Nazis want you to think....

[Correction]

http://img398.imageshack.us/img398/9...050209l6yl.jpg

[Nirokun!]

My point was that certain behavior are "abnormal" since it would lead any non human species to extinction if it's a predominant genetic trait. Left handed/right handed on the other hand (no pun intented ._.) is purely coincidental .

Food for thought:

The theory goes to say that gays benefit the family group altruistically. Just like a grandmother lives longer than a grandfather (who outlives his usefulness as a provider) to oversee and care for (in a nurturing, teaching way) her genepool, so does the homosexual look after theirs. While its not their own genes being passed on, extra providers and nurturers help ensure the proper growth of their nieces/nephews. Their time and resources are not spent on their own children (because they have none) but instead on the children of their family group. Creative solution eh?

Edit: read more post, have more opinions :D :D :D

Sexuality timeline:

Started out liking guys (double impact...so hot jean claude!), by 5th grade i had a female interest (cant really say, dont remember much, we played a game where she told me i couldnt open my hand until i touched someones butt, so i sat my hand in her chair, and she sat on it, was a fun game lol) but i duno if i really liked her in that special "my pants are tighter" way, 6th grade i liked a boy, and felt like i had to care for this girl (she was an immigrant, couldnt speak english well, i felt bad for her, so i looked after her kinda thing [she was vietnamese, and my grandparents were immagrants, so i could understnad the broken english pretty well]).

7th grade and on, still like boys in the special "my pants are tighter" kinda way and, this is important, got used to the idea of the kinda stuff gay guys do in the bedroom, because its not how i always invisioned that stuff to be, took some getting used to. I liked other boys in the indescribable, makes-you-feel-good kinda way, but i had to learn, and accomadate to the ideas of the makes-you-feel-good-im-gonna-cum kinda way. Society didnt teach me that stuff Lame.

Chav<3
BGforums<3 :D

[Lockecole]

Food for thought:

The theory goes to say that gays benefit the family group altruistically. Just like a grandmother lives longer than a grandfather (who outlives his usefulness as a provider) to oversee and care for (in a nurturing, teaching way) her genepool, so does the homosexual look after theirs. While its not their own genes being passed on, extra providers and nurturers help ensure the proper growth of their nieces/nephews. Their time and resources are not spent on their own children (because they have none) but instead on the children of their family group. Creative solution eh?

/em grasps for straws.

Who's to say just because you're gay you will devote your time to your nieces and nephews. You can't assume that, and you can't assume that all gay people will fufill that and all of the above "reasons for why gay people benefit a family". A straight person could do all of the above, so no need to act like its exclusive to gay people. To say that a grandmom lives longer then a grandfather is again assuming things. A grandfather just like a grandmother can be a good influence on his children and grand-children just as a grandmother can be, albeit for different and varied reasons.

And after all of that it still doesn't even begin to address Kaylia's point. Even if they did all of the above, living a good life, and a loved life, does not equate to keeping your family line alive, and growing, something that an entirely gay family could not do. Kaylia addressed its evolutional flaws, and for reasons why its "abnormal" in that way.

[Nirokun!]

/em grasps for straws.

Who's to say just because you're gay you will devote your time to your nieces and nephews. You can't assume that, and you can't assume that all gay people will fufill that and all of the above "reasons for why gay people benefit a family". A straight person could do all of the above, so no need to act like its exclusive to gay people. To say that a grandmom lives longer then a grandfather is again assuming things. A grandfather just like a grandmother can be a good influence on his children and grand-children just as a grandmother can be, albeit for different and varied reasons.

Lets answer this with a question: Do most people's close aunts and uncles care about them? (close because we're assuming the family group resembles the family group a LONG time ago, where people had large extended families living together and working together and such)

We're talking about gay people because we assume gay people dont have children with eachother silly~ And a straight aunt/uncle would perform the same way as a gay one, if they didnt have children of their own. We're trying to talk about how gay people devote their time and resources WHOLLY back to their family group, because they dont have their own family to invest it in. Get it now?

And the grandfather/grandmother thing~ Each has roles in a group that werent decided by me lol Men hunted (brains show their visuo-spacial superiority, useful for hunting, tracking, and coordinating attacks on prey, bodies bigger and stronger for obvious reasons pertaining to the individual's percieved function in the group) and women gathered (weaker bodies that lacked physical strength but had endurance to gather plant foodstuffs and the like; brain that is more connected in the different parts to multi-task and deal with social situations [communication areas denser or something]) *deep breath* men lose functionality when they age, women do not, their tasks didnt rely on physical strength, the ability to hold a family together and nurture and care were still there.

**My own idea on the matter as well: All humans begin female, it takes testosterone to change the fetus(?) male. Testosterone is like a drug, speeds you up, makes you stronger, dulls emotional expression, but shortens lifespan. Men are like firecrackers, women like candles.**

And after all of that it still doesn't even begin to address Kaylia's point. Even if they did all of the above, living a good life, and a loved life, does not equate to keeping your family line alive, and growing, something that an entirely gay family could not do. Kaylia addressed its evolutional flaws, and for reasons why its "abnormal" in that way.

I addressed it, the gays have a function in the family group, thats what all that typing was. Nowhere did i say that we could function alone (well with sperm/egg banks.... ;P) but we have a purpose in the group :D its not a useless genetic flaw

Edit: Kaylia said if homosexuality was dominant, it would be a problem, i never challenged that, he sealed the argument

[Shaodin]

I learned alot today!

[Elcura]

I don't think that's true, my dad (who has a son guess who) and my mom devote more time to their family's then anyone else, my dad went as far as to move in with his mom cause she was sick and take care of her, my mom works 2x harder to help her mom out with bills, divorce arrangements and moving arrangements when her husband decided to become an asshole.

All I'm saying is that anyone can help out their parents a lot because of the situation they're in, not sexual preferance, it may be true that homosexuals help parents/family/whatever more then hetro's but it isn't a wholly one sided thing

[Nirokun!]

All I'm saying is that anyone can help out their parents a lot because of the situation they're in, not sexual preferance, it may be true that homosexuals help parents/family/whatever more then hetro's but it isn't a wholly one sided thing

all im saying is that homosexuals dont have the option of taking care of their own children (in the wild? or something lol) because they cant physically produce their own children, there isnt the option silly ppl~