Shura Haidate Vs. Byakko's Haidate

[aurik]

On the other hand, you could wear lifebelt and 2 sniper+1, dropping only 12 att / 10 str for 24 accuracy, then use meat to add 90+ attack.

[Tom Chambers]

LOL I said in four slots, dude. Take off your rings, take off your Royal Guards Collar, take off your Celata. Put on Sniper +1s, a PCC/PCA, and your ugly Optical. With just those and your E body, you're now at +49 acc. You lost 10STR and 14 ATK. You're gonna be gaining somewhere in the neighborhood 100 ATK. Accuracy-wise you'll be losing...what? 5-6 accuracy at the most? While you xp on VT weapons and demons?

And which had diminishing returns? Didn't you say acc? I know it's not atk unless you have 2.4x then your enemy's def, and trust me, you don't.

Any other questions on why sushi is gimp?

[Lordwafik]

Funny

This thread taught me why my BST rampages are so weak.

I have a confession.. im a sushi user with a A weapon at 75 on VT's

Im gonna change my gear ever so slightly and focus on meats, I have a strong feeling i'll get competetive rampages now.

[Brennon]

Eating sushi is like eating barbequed vomit instead of thanksgiving turkey.

discuss.

[Lockecole]

Funny

This thread taught me why my BST rampages are so weak.

I have a confession.. im a sushi user with a A weapon at 75 on VT's

Im gonna change my gear ever so slightly and focus on meats, I have a strong feeling i'll get competetive rampages now

Same here. Averaging 1200 Rampages /w a BRD and topping 1500-1700 several times just sucks as a WAR using Sushi. Please Tom...teach me your ways.

[Xavier]

Its so funny how defensive people get about what type of food to eat.

Sushi users fail

Its just a personal choice...I don't get how people don't see that the end result is the exact same fking thing. If someone gets +150 atk from gear and massive str, then eats sushi for acc, and then someone wears pure accuracy for normal hits and eats atk food....its the exact same concept executed differently.

I like sushi, because as long as theres a brd, my atk rests around 550-650 w/ berserk up, while maintaining near 100% acc on VT mobs. Theres a damage cap, raising your atk will only go so far. Also, for whatever reason this turned into some warriors saying sushi is better, and mnks saying meat is better. Why the fk are the two jobs being compared when one uses a 250 skill sword and the other uses an A+ weapon? Ridill is amazing but landing every hit is the top priority.

[Nny]

Do you have A+ sword skill through merits? If you do I'm not going to say anything.

Yeah, I have uh...274 Sword I think. Are you saying that because if you had A+ too you would use Meat? Or because parsing against another WAR doesn't count then (And AFIAIK he has 3 Axe/6 sword)? If the later, there's server other examples, that's just the most apparent. Parsing against the same people (I used to EXP with the same couple of people everytime), my damage went 100-200 over theres.

Maneater (16att)
Juggy(30att/4str)
Adaman Hauberk(15att/10str)
Bomb Core(12att)
Swordbelt+1(12att)
Warrior's Mufflers(12att)
Adaman Celata(9att)
Adaman Sollerets(5att)
Fenrirs/Mermans(10/6att)
Ryl.Guard Collar(4/5att)
Rings 5/5STR(5att/10str)
Forager's Mantle(15att3/str)

140ATT/27STR (+153ATT /w STR)

Anyother questions as to why I use sushi?

But once you take out Jug/Man (Rid/Joy), Swordbelt+1 (Haste Belt +10% haste), Warrior's Mufflers (Dusk Gloves), Adaman Sollerets (Unicorn Leggings), Fenrir's/Mermans (Brutal/Suppanomimi), that's -91 ATK (+49).

But on the upside you gain 2-5 attacks per round, +16% haste, enhanced dual wield (~3.5% haste), and +5% double attack (Which actually comes out to be more like +2.5%...using Fenrir's over it would probably end up being better, /shrug).

With Rid/Joy, 1 march, haste spell, and haste equipment, it's basically like hundred fists full time while hitting for 70-120 a pop w/o crits with Berserk up (Joyeuse can do as low as the 50's without zerk up though \: ).

[Xavier]

Do you have A+ sword skill through merits? If you do I'm not going to say anything.

Yeah, I have uh...274 Sword I think. Are you saying that because if you had A+ too you would use Meat? Or because parsing against another WAR doesn't count then (And AFIAIK he has 3 Axe/6 sword)? If the later, there's server other examples, that's just the most apparent. Parsing against the same people (I used to EXP with the same couple of people everytime), my damage went 100-200 over theres

I just meant that w/o merits, it was a harder sell to me to think that a war using 2 swords w/ meat would be able to outdmg axe wars w/ sushi. With it, dunno, probably could.

I've found sushi to be a lot better when you're dealing w/ multi-hit weaponskills. Being able to stay in full str/atk gear and landing every hit appeals to me more than switching from acc gear to ws gear and possibly missing 1 or 2. Mind you this is on warrior, not commenting on mnk.

BACK ON TOPIC, I like Byakko's Haidate more for mnk and nin, and shura haidate for sam. MNK can get so much +haste% without even really losing atk/str. Black belt/byakko haidate/fuma/haste spell and a mnk seems to never stops swinging. Dunno, dex is supposed to be acc and crit, so I don't really consider shura haidate to have an advantage there, and 5% haste seems really good for 1handed weapons.

[Sticks]

I've never failed to demolish a sushi user in KRT while using meat, the only people who regularly outparse me are meat monks with sick gears.
With only 4 upgrades to h2h I was parsing around 86% accuracy without clearing my blind with eyedrops. With 8 h2h upgrades (I'm only 7k xp short of my 8th) and carrying the usual stacks of eyedrops I imagine I'll be around 90%.

With 90% acc, sushi is going to barely do a thing -- raise my hit rate by a 6% maybe -- compared to the very obvious increase in damage from using meat.

your parser is broke a meat user with great gear will have about 80-85% ACC and hit for maybe 130-140

Shushi user will have 95%+ ACC and still hit for 110-120(with good gear), also with asuran you will usually dump more dmg with shushi then yellow/red curry(only rarely will curry let you land all 8hits, but when it does it can do alot of dmg)

Only time meat is worth a shit is with a bard, other then that the meat users are just looking at the +10-15dmg on there hits, but no adding up all the misses, and inconsistent WS.

But ya on topic shura is only good for WS, byakko for evreything else.

[aurik]

My parser isn't broke, actually, because I've had other people parse the same parties and we have come up with matching numbers. In fact, this is how I tested the correctness of my parser, which I wrote myself.

Here's my setup as of a few months ago, with which I based my accuracy of 86% on:

Destroyers-latent
Optical Hat
Scorpion Harness
Forager's Mantle
Spike Necklace
Ochiudo's Kote
Black Belt
Tiphia Sting
Spike Earring x2
Sniper's Ring +1 x2
Shura Haidate
Dune Boots
4 H2H upgrades
No use of eyedrops except after shadow claw (from dogs) / dark sphere (from ghosts)

Exact accuracy figure for the parse was 86.82%

Maybe you're used to people running around with gimp-ass flame rings.

[Sticks]

My parser isn't broke, actually, because I've had other people parse the same parties and we have come up with matching numbers. In fact, this is how I tested the correctness of my parser, which I wrote myself.

Here's my setup as of a few months ago, with which I based my accuracy of 86% on:

Destroyers-latent
Optical Hat
Scorpion Harness
Forager's Mantle
Spike Necklace
Ochiudo's Kote
Black Belt
Tiphia Sting
Spike Earring x2
Sniper's Ring +1 x2
Shura Haidate
Dune Boots
4 H2H upgrades
No use of eyedrops except after shadow claw (from dogs) / dark sphere (from ghosts)

Exact accuracy figure for the parse was 86.82%

Maybe you're used to people running around with gimp-ass flame rings.

thats still about 10% lower ACC then what a shushi user will get(good gear of course). So do the math, 10% in pt dmg is going to be > then hitting for 10dmg more, and having a WS that stays at 800-1200 is > then 500-1300.

Shushi ftw.

you can check my set up on my profile but I switch to shura legs, and osode+ marine M boots for WS(or atleast I did when I played this game)

As for the gimp flame rings, I pted with my LS member only, and they are prob some of them most decked out players in the game so ya they may have used flame rings but they had Ebody/osodes/shura/ whatever else needed to make up for the lack of ACC on there ring slot. Even though snipers or the +1 is a total waste of gil at 75.

[aurik]

I've never failed to demolish a sushi user in KRT while using meat, the only people who regularly outparse me are meat monks with sick gears.
With only 4 upgrades to h2h I was parsing around 86% accuracy without clearing my blind with eyedrops. With 8 h2h upgrades (I'm only 7k xp short of my 8th) and carrying the usual stacks of eyedrops I imagine I'll be around 90%.

With 90% acc, sushi is going to barely do a thing -- raise my hit rate by a 6% maybe -- compared to the very obvious increase in damage from using meat.

Reading comprehension ftw?

[Sticks]

I've never failed to demolish a sushi user in KRT while using meat, the only people who regularly outparse me are meat monks with sick gears.
With only 4 upgrades to h2h I was parsing around 86% accuracy without clearing my blind with eyedrops. With 8 h2h upgrades (I'm only 7k xp short of my 8th) and carrying the usual stacks of eyedrops I imagine I'll be around 90%.

[b]With 90% acc, sushi is going to barely do a thing -- raise my hit rate by a 6% maybe[b] -- compared to the very obvious increase in damage from using meat.

Reading comprehension ftw?

your ACC will not go up to 90% with h2h ugrade, I have full merits in h2h+ faith torque and with curry I was 85% on Weapons. And I still think i have more ACC then you do without the snipers.

[aurik]

You also claimed that my max accuracy would be 85%, yet I found I was often at 86% ish, with only 4 h2h upgrades. So...yea...

[Sticks]

You also claimed that my max accuracy would be 85%, yet I found I was often at 86% ish, with only 4 h2h upgrades. So...yea...

ok w/e go parser it and post your results. I will guarentee you shushi>meat. I have parsered it atleast 20x and never was meat a better choice(that was with red curry, not gimp ass yellow).

Any one that is monk or ninja post a parser with higher dmg with meat, becasue I have never seen one ever, and my LS did merit PTs on a daily basis.

[aurik]

i've done quite a few mnk pts (as a brd... spectator only!) and on all my parses the meat/pie/REDCURRY-FTW mnks ALWAYS outparse the sushi mnks handsdown. the sushi mnk has to be REALLY geared out to come close or beat an engame equipped meat mnk.

[Toadicus]

There's a difference between parsing a well equipped meat eating monk against a guy wearing AF1 eating sushi.

I have no doubt that both foods work equally well depending on your gear build, but all the people claiming to have parses and that have done all this research haven't posted up shit.

I recently got my ass kicked by 4% DMG by a Ninja in sky (NIN39% MNK35% WAR24%). To back up the results, I listed every detail about the members, what gear they were using, how often they had haste, , how much haste gear, how much STR for WS, etc. All your claims mean shit without detailed reports.

I personally don't use Meat because I don't have access to enough Accuracy gear. I've tried punching a few rounds when sushi wears off. All i have access to is a SH and Optical for acc, and that isn't enough, even with H2H+16.

[XxSlusherxx]

You also claimed that my max accuracy would be 85%, yet I found I was often at 86% ish, with only 4 h2h upgrades. So...yea...

ok w/e go parser it and post your results. I will guarentee you shushi>meat. I have parsered it atleast 20x and never was meat a better choice(that was with red curry, not gimp ass yellow).

Any one that is monk or ninja post a parser with higher dmg with meat, becasue I have never seen one ever, and my LS did merit PTs on a daily basis.

I know Russta has some, if he keeps them I don't know. meh you underestimate the strength of meat. Personally, I prefered sushi for my war(though I wasen't using a A+ weapon) and I had a ton of attack gear, and I felt that really worked for me, but at the same time, ouside of togi there is not a great selection of attk+ gear for mnk like there is for war so the comparison is bad in so many ways. lol sidetracked, my point is, meat was really strong it's not +~10 a hit, it's like 3/4 a berserk, it's really strong, but for War the tp and acc on rampage left something to be desired so I stayed with sushi, though the DoT was immence w/meat a 4/4 would do upwards of 500-600 dmg but with meat acc it was all luck.

[Cuer]

As a Warrior who likes to play around with gear/food to try to get the best results, I've wondered recently what it would be like to run a Spamage party with Bard, using the old-style Minuet + Madrigal songs, and all the melees eating meat. Perhaps this is commonly done; I haven't had time to do a lot of merit parties lately, and it's often hard to get other melee to try something different. But it seems like you could get the best of both worlds by having to only use a few Accuracy items, because of the Accuracy boost from Madrigal, while still getting the main Attack boosts from meat and Minuet.

When doing comparisons, it has to be kept in mind that most melee will be using Coeurl Sautee/Subs as their Attack food, which means that they're getting 75 Attack max from it. Even if you're up in the 90 Attack range with Bison Steak or Hedgehog pie, it's not an insurmountable amount of damage coming from those that theoretically couldn't be made up in other ways. From the little I've seen, you have to drop a heck of a lot of gear for Accuracy pieces, assuming you're in a standard melee spam group with double Minuet.

[Tom Chambers]

Its so funny how defensive people get about what type of food to eat.

Then he went on to defend sushi....



Anyway I enjoyed Lockecole's end response, too. I say you can get the accuracy bonus from sushi in basically 5 slots (my fault, was counting two ring slots only once), keep all your other slots open for ATK/STR, eat meat and get the best of both worlds and what does he respond with. Paraphrased: I'm good enough already.

Alright.