Shura Haidate Vs. Byakko's Haidate

[Jotaru]

Solution: Be a mage. There's like... three foods you might want, and they're each specialized for its own occasion. hMP+, Max MP+, INT+.

I really wish they'd introduce a broader spectrum of items with a mixture of MP, INT, and hMP (Melon Pie+1, hooray...) or possibly food with Magic Attack Bonus or Elem Skill+. Sure, we might not 'need' it.... see the thousands of other debates about 'needed' items.

[Raineer]

Its so funny how defensive people get about what type of food to eat.

Then he went on to defend sushi....

He actually didn't... He said that in theory either build should lead to the same result, but he prefers sushi (likely because of his choice of gear)

[Sticks]

You also claimed that my max accuracy would be 85%, yet I found I was often at 86% ish, with only 4 h2h upgrades. So...yea...

ok w/e go parser it and post your results. I will guarentee you shushi>meat. I have parsered it atleast 20x and never was meat a better choice(that was with red curry, not gimp ass yellow).

Any one that is monk or ninja post a parser with higher dmg with meat, becasue I have never seen one ever, and my LS did merit PTs on a daily basis.

I know Russta has some, if he keeps them I don't know. meh you underestimate the strength of meat. Personally, I prefered sushi for my war(though I wasen't using a A+ weapon) and I had a ton of attack gear, and I felt that really worked for me, but at the same time, ouside of togi there is not a great selection of attk+ gear for mnk like there is for war so the comparison is bad in so many ways. lol sidetracked, my point is, meat was really strong it's not +~10 a hit, it's like 3/4 a berserk, it's really strong, but for War the tp and acc on rampage left something to be desired so I stayed with sushi, though the DoT was immence w/meat a 4/4 would do upwards of 500-600 dmg but with meat acc it was all luck.

no no I was a meat user only for a few months, but after looking over parsers, and then doing some testing I found shushi to be better, atleast with the gear I use. The dmg at the end of the pt wasnt even close from meat to shushi. I use to think shushi was crap, and thought no one over 74 should ever use it, but the numbers didnt lie. Use want you want but with a balance set up shushi has always done alot more dmg at the end of the day then any meat will ever do.

[Nagamaki]

SUshi

No h

If you're going to sing its praises at least spell it properly, thank you.

[Xavier]

Its so funny how defensive people get about what type of food to eat.

Then he went on to defend sushi....

He actually didn't... He said that in theory either build should lead to the same result, but he prefers sushi (likely because of his choice of gear)

Adding you to my friends list.

[Tom Chambers]

A) It's sushi. One or two times it's a typo or brain fart or something but Christ man, this is ridiculous now.

B) You also said, knowing aurik parsed at 86%, that he'd only hit 85% with capped H2H. I mean, I know with 292 H2H I've parsed at 89-91%, but that's besides the point. You're contending merits will make him worse, or, more likely, you're just not thinking.

And why should I believe anything your shushi-using non-thinking-ass would say?

[Lordwafik]

Funny

This thread taught me why my BST rampages are so weak.

I have a confession.. im a sushi user with a A weapon at 75 on VT's

Im gonna change my gear ever so slightly and focus on meats, I have a strong feeling i'll get competetive rampages now

Same here. Averaging 1200 Rampages /w a BRD and topping 1500-1700 several times just sucks as a WAR using Sushi. Please Tom...teach me your ways.

You're a WAR. BST have no attack.
Wanna see my attack rating?

http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/1...tacksux6pb.jpg


I've changed a few things since then, I got HQ mantle, lost my Assault earring, got a Diabolos earring(+3 acc in non-dark weather, which affects 0 of my exp spots). Got heca cap/harness to macro in for rampage


Keep in mind I cant zerk/agressor/warcry, or anything at all really, nor do I have any attack bonus traits, or anything really that can help, and on rampages I lose 10 attack from the Hecatomb Harness/Hauberk swap. The only time i've gotten a really high rampage is off a zerk'd dhalmel (955) which shouldnt count. The only thing I can go off is what i've got as a BST/WHM or a BST/NIN. THF have sneak attack to boost damage, wars can warcry to boost damage, we just.. stand there.


Which is one of the reasons SE fucked up when trying to make us a party job last update, when we have no party job traits/benefits.

[Not Kuno]

Which is one of the reasons SE fucked up when trying to make us a party job last update, when we have no party job traits/benefits.

You certainly show those spiders whos boss with that Resist Slow.

[Parshath]

Which is one of the reasons SE fucked up when trying to make us a party job last update, when we have no party job traits/benefits.

You certainly show those spiders whos boss with that Resist Slow.

LOL ZOMG INVITE TEH BST!!11

[Lockecole]

Sorry Wafik, I wasn't trying to compare the two of us, just merely stating that the numbers I put up in XP PTs, have never been matched by anyone Ive ever PTed with...Meat or Sushi users. And I can't even comprehend (yes I was a huge acc setup/meat user even long into when sushi had already been added) doing more damage then I do, and rampaging for higher then I do on a consistant basis with anything else besides my setup.

I don't think Meat would help your numbers, as especially with the loss of aggressor, BST is hardly gonna hit all that well. By "help your numbers" I mean actually helping your DoT, not just seeing pretty bigger numbers. I think MNK, a job which has high DoT and very nice access to attack/str/acc gear, is probably the only job that can get away (not saying its the best option) with using Meat in a VT merit PT.

[Xavier]

I think in the argument of DoT both sides can make the same case. It just comes down to your skill w/ a weapon most of the time and gear selection. In comparison, whenever I pt on my sam w/ his 300 gtk skill, of course I'm not going to eat sushi, straight atk food all the way.

[Razz]

Samurai can't really miss a chance to get TP in a round because of GKT skill gear/merits and zanshin.

[cubone]

Which is one of the reasons SE fucked up when trying to make us a party job last update, when we have no party job traits/benefits.

LIEK USE YOUR JUGS U N00B BST!! YOU GOTS REGEN NOWZ! DUH!

lol your attk totally pwns my BSTs attk ; ;
and for the record, I use dhamel steaks or navarin rofl Taru STR RAWRZ! (i STILL have meat from when i lvl'd in altepa)

i used tuna/sole/whateva sushi once and saw no coolness of it except some empty gil feeling gone outta my wallet, after it woreoff

i even wore my friends +1 brynie, my rampages were like all bst rampages , weak

lol since this post was orginally a MNK orly asking about Shura or Haidates but seeing how ridill equiped, e-body wearing WARs hijacked it, now am gonna make it a BST emocry how my Rampage suxxors

so whos with me!! SE gimme a lvl 70+ BST Blunt DMG Axe so Carrie & I can eat meat & PT with my MNK brotherans!

[Parshath]

now am gonna make it a BST emocry how my Rampage suxxors

HOW COULD THIS HAPPEN TO ME T_T

[epigram]

Wafik, I've been working on my BST gear for a while. I've been 75 BST for about a year and have tried just about eveything to get my gear up to spec. Post patch I've had about four D. weapon PT's. Three with bard, one without.

For a PT without a bard use hedgehog pie and stack acc. My average rampage sat at about 550 dmg. Min was 112 with 8 tp return >.> max was 878. You really need maneater + juggernaut for these sort of situations. I ran out of pie after a while and used sushi, acc was high again but I didn't have enough + attack gear on me to get back to where I was. Average rampage was around 530 but there really were no super high damage ones. (I think I had around +70 acc when I was doing meat)

For a PT with a bard, I would use sushi. Why use sushi? Because you don't have DA. Don't worry about your DoT, you have a retarded crab friend to help you out. Worry about TP gain and landing all your hits on rampage.

Last burn I hit 999 rampage and averaged 700 ^^. I still think I can get my average up to around 800 but will require a fair bit of reworking my gear. (For the most part if I land all my hits I get 700, to get it higher you really need to cap crits > axe > str, also try to think about adding gear in that order)

TP gain gear.

Maneater
Wrath Tabar (I have a jugg but my war friend was borrowing it)
Spectacles
Hauberk
Bison wristbands
Thick breeches
Adaman Feet
Adaman Head
2x sniper rings (will move to sniper +1 and rajas after CoP is done)
Forager Mantle
Triumph Earring
Arte del sol (sold my assault for ancient beast coins and Airship BC >.>)
Swordbelt +1 / lifebelt

For WS:
Same weapons
Spike Necklace
Hecatomb Cap
Hecatomb Harness
Hecatomb Leggings
Hecatomb Mittens
Thick Breeches
Flame Ring
Ruby Ring (waiting on Rajas)
Warwolf belt

I only have level 3 crits and axe right now (level 4 killer effects though >.>). I do all my bst merits as bst so it kinda sucks.

Notes:

Temperance axe is a very nice weapon but I only play a few hours a day so farming organs is a bit of a pain, especially as bst >.<;

Retributor is probably better than wrath, I still need to get and unlatent one >.> I have about 60 KS seals so I hope it drops.

I have a few anct. beastcoins now and will be picking up three items that will help me out a bit soon.

Byakko's haidate is a very nice item but I'm not a bard or ninja and always seem to be last in line >.>

Next project is to get my friend to make me a signed brynie +1 and tarasque mitts +1.

Osode was a let down, I had one a while ago but it was stolen by an ls member >.> I borrowed one for a while in one of my pts but found it to be a little worse than hauberk/hecat for rampage and tp gain. E body would probably be best but on cerberus it's pretty much unatainable by part time players that are not in the two hard core ls's ( also kinda doubt it would be a whole lot better than hecat, +1% crit and a +1% attack). Still I do kind of hope that SE makes something worth a damn that competes with E. body that you don't need to gameshark, or can't be monopolized. Maybe if we could get some actual feed back from developers like other mmorpg's >.>, instead we have these retarded dress up like mithra events.

I know some bsts have ridill but I'm pretty sure temperance would probably work just as well due to our massive base sword skill of 200 >.> Well you could merit it up to 221 >.>

A lot of BSTs on KI have this notion that BST is some uber DD, one for one though a BST with CC does a little less dmg than a dual axe war, we can do TP burn fine, but when compared to an equally equiped melee we tend to always be a little behind.

In dynamis I have done 1200 rampages a few times but to do that you need to sub war. Still the average rampage dmg was the same as /nin, you just get greater variance. /nin is nice for consitent rampage dmg.

Personal suggestion is to ditch kabraken and use sushi. Slow effect is great for solo but not so hot for TP burn. With your current gear sushi will do the best. You might want to get some more +attack and strength gear as well if you have capped axe merits.

Baby jesus cries when people use parser totals to validate equip choices. Parser totals are kinda pointless, I could show you a parse of my rdm out DD'ing a drk. BTW the drk was afk and taking a shit or something for 30minutes and we kept on fighting >.> (a little extreme but parsers don't show what is really going on).

Better way to measure dmg is total dmg til ws (sorry haven't worked it for thief yet, shouldn't be too hard to figure out what to adjust).

DMGi = expected dmg for weapon i
DLYi = expected delay for weapon i
MHi = expected number of hits per round for weapon i, 1 <= MHi
ACCi = expected accuracy for weapon i
TPi = TP for weapon i
DA = Number of expected attacks per attack, aka (DA rate + 1)

DMG_T = total expected dmg per round
TP_T = total expected TP per round
RPW = rounds per WS
TD = Total DMG
WS = expected WS dmg (aka average WS dmg)
PET = expected dmg from a pet in the expected number of
turns per 100 tp (need to work on this for CC), BTW for
just about everyone this is 0
HST = this is haste, dual weild all that fun stuff that reduces delay
TDPW = total damage per WS

DMG_T = sum(over i) : DMGi * DA * MHi
TP_T sum(over i) : TPi * DA * MHi
RPW = 100/TP_T
TD = DMG_T * RPW + WS + PET
HST = 1 - (DualWeildHaste + Haste + w/e else you have)
TDPW = TD/(HST * {sum(over i) : DLYi})

TDPW is what you really should be comparing between sushi and meat and w/e equip you have. It is independent of your ninja hitting the wrong macro or your whm hating your ls and not giving you haste.

For D. weapons there isn't too much variability between the monsters for this to be a serious concern, and for expected damage you really should record the average damage while you have both minuets up or at least specify what is going on. It's not perfect but better than spewing garbage parser totals.

[cubone]

yes!!! its HAS BEGUN!!

lol wow epigram, that most was the most informative post yet thx!
w00t w00 ya answered a few of my questions

since am a huge cheapo ive wanting a retbuitor myself doesnt the unlocked +crit effects only work on the main hand not the offhand? ; ;
my friend uses a retibutor + maneater offhand i think i could be wrong...
it might be a woodvilles

so am better off just meriting my axe & crits? lol am takin the killer effects arent as gravy as it sounds

[epigram]

I'm pretty sure you need to main hand to unlock and once unlocked you can sub it for crit effect. Still it would be very easy to test but I need to unlock mine first >.>;

I thought the only main hand thing was for martial axe? Well if I'm wrong I'll just use jugg or maneater for second hand, and maybe test retributor in main hand. Either way I'll test it in a week or two and see how it does.

Killer effects btw are Very nice if you do bst/nin solo. I am considering getting a flawless ribbon but I'm not sure of it's proc rate, and there are many other good items to fit into the head item slot as well >.<; I use crow simply because it's better to not get hit then to worry about intimidating something. The helm from biast also looks really nice, well at least in stats...

I would really like to spend some time and figure out how intimdation works with regard to stats and gear some time. I think after I get another 150 anct. beastcoins I'll do a formal write-up.

Sometime this weekend I'll get some better estimates and make sure I have my jug to get a better representation of bst dmg. I also need to figure out what the delay and DA of CC is. I have about 4 stacks of alch water I would like to try out soon in krt :D. I tried homo out in dyn-xarc and he sucked horribly, like 15-20dmg a hit >.>; At least his sleep seemed to stick >.<;

BTW, don't ever waste gil on panzer for kirin, he is horrible... Also make sure you don't call out your 250k Amigo right before one of kirin's astral flows... (well at least he got off 1 1k needle >.<.

[Xavier]

In other news:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...mnkownswar.jpg
Discuss.

[layoneil]

all those gimps without Voyager Sallets, what's up with that?

[Squirrels]

Xavier is the end all DD now?