JoL Pandemonium server part II

[Rin]

Seriously guys, you're giving S-E too much credit on boss design.

So far other than a few placement techniques or a damage rythm, they haven't implemented anything close to requiring some of the suggested level of tactics here.

What suggests in every HNM fight up to this point that it isn't just kill it till its dead?

I agree with that. My prediction is that AV will be beaten sometime after the new expansion has come out. Mybe 3~5 months after its release, once people have learned how to use all the new things implemented in it well enough.

[Kalaka]

I know alot of theories re floating around, but i was thinking, according to how the story works the jailers imprisoned AV, so look to their abilites and tactics. Use what you learned to beat them and the Ix'aerns to fight AV. Congratulations on the JoL win by the way.

Oh did you guys try the tactic used to kill prudence? get a dumby mob and aga it catching AV in the aoe effect? I mean (from the clue Sage Sundi gave) Maybe have Constant AoE and never claiming AV is the key to being able to beat him. Indirectly target him maybe a good tactic to try next time.

[BRP]

SE is pretty creative when they want to be.

This is what we got so far.
-Kill job NMs with jobs to get rid of 2hrs.
-Kill same species NMs to get rid of abilities.
-Hit with a special weapon at 1% to get rid of invicible.
-Throw a weapon to get rid of an en-spell.
-ect.

Crazy theories: Virtue Stone weapons... use it in SC or some kind... maybe SC is corresponding to the day/other factor... why not throw in Sin(pop Skele NMs) Weapons while we are at it? Pop Jailers while he is up. gaysex?

Anyway, someone should spend some pop items, time, and exp to test this thing out. Its not likely you beat 'im in the normal way.

EDIT: Look for numbers... If AV has 7 2hrs, then its likely Jailers are behind it.

Also I don't think all of AV chat logs have been posted. I personally never seen anything about him talking mid-battle, but people say he does.

[Palin]

I definately think something with Shadowbind will be the way to go in the future if nothing is implimented to make him a bit more managable. If in synch, and everything is coordinated, on paper, the Shadowbind rotation with Blms nuking and an endless "Kite" would work, but it'd be messy with Tornado II, Aeroga IV, Aero V, and Meteor going off all the time. It'll be interesting to see.

I saw a question here regarding nuke damage, it did about 500 each Thunder IV, a roughly 50% MDB, with a bit of high INT thrown in, about the same as JoL. At the C4h and "go apeshit on it" point we got it to 98% with Thundaga 3s, about 5 of them, and some melees bashing it, but it regened quite quickly and literally at least one person was dying each attack.

Edit: Also to clarfify this, you CANNOT throw Virtue Stones, and you CANNOT trade AV. We've tried. :wink:

[berticus]

so to niklavian or anyone who saw the JP 57 BLM army kill JoL, was his regen different or is it the same as the time you saw the JP LS fight it? if it's changed, im very jealous of you guys and wish i had the opportunity to do the non-regen fight the one time we tried with the old bg. if it's not, you guys are seriously fucking amazing for doing it with so few people, and mad props. well.. if it's the same you guys are really amazing too, just not fucking amazing.

if it's changed i bet they'll just change av in another 6 months to a year

glad to see the glory of the forums is back in some form 8)

[Suiram]

Claims of "it can't be beaten until next expansion" sound to me an aweful lot like claims of "it can't be beaten, since it's obviously bugged", and we all know how those claims tend to pan out. :wink:

If it is something that requires future content, it would have to be something that will be released in the last one or two CoP updates we've got coming before ToAU is released, and even then, I don't see them putting in AV and his drops and his title half a year early if that was to be the case.

Our main focus leading up to yesterday's events was to nail down a workable strategy for defeating Love, and though we had some ideas for what to try on AV, it wasn't nearly as refined. Over the course of 5 hours, you are still only limited to making a handful of genuine, coordinated tests and attempts. We didn't exhaust all the ideas we had, or even other reasonable ideas, so it's still to early to say it's currently impossible, in my view.

[Palin]

so to niklavian or anyone who saw the JP 57 BLM army kill JoL, was his regen different or is it the same as the time you saw the JP LS fight it? if it's changed, im very jealous of you guys and wish i had the opportunity to do the non-regen fight the one time we tried with the old bg. if it's not, you guys are seriously fucking amazing for doing it with so few people, and mad props. well.. if it's the same you guys are really amazing too, just not fucking amazing.

if it's changed i bet they'll just change av in another 6 months to a year

glad to see the glory of the forums is back in some form 8)

Its really hard to say. The JP group used ALL Blms, no melees, no Souleater/Kraken, no Chi Blast like we did. The JPs on our server also tend to be a bit more conservative, they used all -Enmity gear instead of Elemental Magic or damage gear. I'm also not sure if they have the merits we did, I'd say 2/3 of Kupo's Blms have capped Elemental Magic and Thunder/Blizzard, or somewhere near that.

Another note, they only used one Pld, so when he went down, they might have held back to let the new one get hate. I also don't think they used the same positioning as we did, which really helped out negate damage from Physical attacks.

It might have just been a combonation of things, the -Enmity only gear instead of damage amplifying gear, the one Pld and downtime for hate if he went down, as well as the lack of alternative damage sources. Also unsure if they nuked to target the Elemental Weakness, or just waited for their Blizzard IV recast timers to come up.

They also used 6 Blms for each Summon I think, I know they had 3 Seperate PTs of Blms and a Ninja grabbing each Summon and taking it to them, while we used -ga with one PT. Whether they changed the Summon timer I'm unsure. Whether they change the Regen also I'm unsure, but these are a few theories to play around with.

[Baltasar]

Hey Balt don't diss his idea! That was my idea last night lol

The Jailers put AV away... we set him free by killing them... only natural to bring them back?!?!

That's beacuse you're stupid <3

Anyway AV didn't say anything, someone asked about that atleast not what I saw, I didn't see the text when he died either however, because I wasn't in the main party I assume, or it's filtered out because of my Chat Filters I guess o;

[Pikarya]

Did it say anything when it popped?

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y183/derzoll/AV.jpg

I think this is what your looking for...

[Lui]

Any difference between whether you were wearing a torque or not?

[baxta]

Anyway, someone should spend some pop items, time, and exp to test this thing out. Its not likely you beat 'im in the normal way.

I dont mean to sound like a knob.. but did you read all the posts? Last night I lost a grand total of about 17k xp, spent 4-5 hours and our ls used our 4th 5th and 6th virtue.. all playing with AV, pretty much all the details of tests are right here, we tried an awful lot of ideas ranging from sensible to absurd. I'm sure there is someway to beat him, but we didnt try it.

What part did you miss? :wink:

[aurik]

Does the JoL ??? repop while AV is out?

[Not Kuno]

Does the JoL ??? repop while AV is out?

Godzilla vs Mothra?

[Warrick]

About its regan being nerfed just read what derzoll wrote we saw the exact same thing jps on our server saw and BG saw. Dont say its nerfed cause we handled it better if u think its nerfed go beat it the same way u tried the first time. Thx :wink:

[Palin]

Does the JoL ??? repop while AV is out?

Negative

[aurik]

There goes all the "just pop JoL again" theories

[RustyMetal]

wonder what happens when u click on the NPCs for the map while hes poped, you guys happen to do that?

[Zumi]

Lv 3 skill chains with virtue weapons do anything or dispel anything?

Did you try all 5 panels in the gardan with the correct race in each tower pressing them at the same time?

[Caocao]

Warrick, stop being noob. Outsiders watching the fight said it was nerfed. The JPs in my party who fought JoL the first time and were watching the fight last night said it was nerfed. And even other members of Kupo said it was nerfed. No one's taking away from your accomplishment of killing JoL. He's still a hard fight, and Kupo deserves congratulations for killing him.

But JoL's regen was. still. NERFED.

[nivlakian]

so to niklavian or anyone who saw the JP 57 BLM army kill JoL, was his regen different or is it the same as the time you saw the JP LS fight it? if it's changed, im very jealous of you guys and wish i had the opportunity to do the non-regen fight the one time we tried with the old bg. if it's not, you guys are seriously fucking amazing for doing it with so few people, and mad props. well.. if it's the same you guys are really amazing too, just not fucking amazing.

if it's changed i bet they'll just change av in another 6 months to a year

glad to see the glory of the forums is back in some form 8)

Some people already talked about this, but...

I think it's hard for me to say exactly if the regen changed. When they started off, for about 2 hrs they tried occassional nuking and sometimes a SC and MB and it would just regen it rapidly. Then they tried nuking harder and got it to say 95%, but didn't keep it up. Again it just regened back to 100%. Eventually, they just went all out chain nuking and wore it down. They really didn't use any other forms of damage whatsoever from what I saw as Palin said.

When BG tried, what was your main source of damage on JoL and were you able to keep that damage up?

One of my LS members says that the JP group that fought it had a higher summon rate than we did. I didn't time it myself when I watched them so I'm not entirely sure. How fast did it summon when you guys did it? Ours was around 2 1/2 mins iirc.

Based on Nether Blast damage, JoL seems to have a -25% Magic damage reduction (it did ~370ish dmg) and AV has -50% magic damage reduction (254 dmg). Thunder was always resisted even when JoL changed to water (which could be inferred from normal Yovras).




I'd really like to see someone take down AV. The shadowbind idea sounds like a good tactic. The one thing that worries me is mobs can cast at a much farther distance than players can. I'd assume as your BLMs try to line up to nuke, he may just drop Aeroga IV on them or something. It's worth a shot anyway.

The first JoL topic that I made was the first attempt of JPs on our server to fight him and AV. Since then, another attempt was made by JPs on our server, but I didn't find this out until recently. Ikarus mentioned it somewhat a few posts ago. According to them, they got AV down to 95% using a shadowbind nuking method, but then AV Manafont > Meteor followed by Aeroga IV killing them off. I wish I had known about this attempt and got to witness it myself.

It's very difficult to try things when he's able to kill everyone virtually at will. For instance, observing if anything happens while using Virtue Weapons, he kills everyone before you'd have enough time to see anything for sure.

Some things people could try in future attempts:
1. Stealing from AV. I'm not sure if our THF tried and what message was received... I'll have to ask later.

2. Skillchains with Virtue weapons.

3. All 7 virtue weapons used on him. We did have people try several of the weapons, but not all 7 at once.

4. Surviving through a large amount of 2hrs before he goes unclaimed and resets to see if he'll continually use them.

Does the JoL ??? repop while AV is out?

No, the ??? didn't reappear until after AV despawned. SE doesn't want too many people to be fighting them at once I guess.