JoL Pandemonium server part II

[berticus]

after our jol we mostly discussed how if it had standard, i guess tiamat level regen, it would be very epic with the vrtra++ishness

sucks it wasnt this way from the beginning, ff is this way with a lot of things

[Charitwo]

With a more confined space, it still made the fight "look" too easy... maybe I was missing something.. but Vrtra still appears to be a bigger pain in the ass than JoL.

[Squirrels]

With a more confined space, it still made the fight "look" too easy... maybe I was missing something.. but Vrtra still appears to be a bigger pain in the ass than JoL.

but JoL drops E-Peen++++++ Items while Vrtra=E-Peen+++

[½pint]

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b3...365/river1.jpg

HOW COULD THIS HAPPEN TO ME?

[Warrick]

vrtra is a joke, and we had more than 1 strat using smns yeah was one. like suiram said we didnt go in unprepared, 2nd our actual kill strat is basically posted on this form putting it out for other ls's to kill and try more strats on av.

When we did Sc's, and ocassional burst along with 6 smns as damage, and "seeing that niether blast is constant damage as a blood pact", came to the conclusion we needed to try something else. We did and won if it looked easy than sure u can say its nerfed OR maybe u can say its a good strat for future JoL pops not only us but other linkshells attempt.

[Xavier]

I'm tired of this "did SE nerf it's regen" arguement. "Well, BG couldn't beat it with no BLMs in main, and Simd's LS beat with 50 BLMs, and you guys didn't use 50 BLMs, so it must have been nerfed." Then you've got people like Caocao and Pleroma on here, who have a professed dislike for our LS as a whole, and who didn't even have sea access when Simd killed Love saying, "Oh yeah, I saw it, it was totally nerfed." Get over yourselves.

Just to clarify, I thought/think (which tense I dunno) the kill was really cool, and was rooting for an AV win on top of it for you guys. But the claim that we approached JoL halfassed needs to go.

We brought around 45 people, had at least 15 blms, a drk with kraken, a few sam, a few smn, etc. When we popped it, we were almost instantly overwhelmed with the adds. We had to in effect wipe, use one person to continually claim JoL to keep it popped and rearrange our add party. Once we had that done, we attempted to damage JoL. His life never dropped below 98%, and was for almost the entire fight at 99%, which is technically 100, because any DoT on him cause the windower to mark him as not at full health. At one point, we had a 1300dmg chiblast, a drk krakening it, and a handful of blms nuking their full mp out, and its life refused to budge. You claimed we had no blms in our main, thats false. Say what you want, but when we fought it, it would've taken twice the amount of people to move its life.

[berticus]

With a more confined space, it still made the fight "look" too easy... maybe I was missing something.. but Vrtra still appears to be a bigger pain in the ass than JoL.

but JoL drops E-Peen++++++ Items while Vrtra=E-Peen+++

-7 enmity and +7 mab are astronomically better than -12 sing time

[nivlakian]

No one answered my question (unless I missed it among the flames). What were BG's damage source(s) for JoL, how well were you able to maintain that damage, and alliance setup? I recall in the previous JoL thread you (berticus) stated you felt that since BLMs were required so heavily for the adds that they shouldn't be as necessary for JoL as well.

I would say it's up to BG to decide how much JoL was altered from their original try. Mimic what you did before as much as possible and see if it works now (or works better than it did then)... if you're willing.

Edit: I think Xavier just answered while I was writing this

Edit2: The quote I was referring to

god
i thought since summons basically necessited a ton of BLMs that BLMs shouldnt really be used for jol dmg.. now it's just a matter of having 10 blms for adds and 12 blms for dps rofl

It seemed to imply BLMs weren't used.

[Quicklet]

JoL was a yawn from the adds standpoint, but then again it bugged and only spat out Phuabos which were pathetically easy to handle on our 2nd try. If they fixed that and you actually have to deal with hpemdes and xzomits for the whole fight it'd make the adds aspect of the fight actually somewhat of a job, but really if the regen got nerfed to something realistic, it really seems more in line with a Kirin level fight than a Vrtra level fight.

This is coming from someone who was pretty disappointed in the difficulty level of sea to begin with though (I doubt it would've taken more than a week for people to have gotten up to Jailer of Love if it weren't for the awesomely cryptic "puzzles" of figuring out pop conditions and piss poor drop rates).

Either way, I think it'll become apparent whether or not the regen got messed with if all of a sudden you start seeing lots of LSes downing it.

[Palin]

I'm tired of this "did SE nerf it's regen" arguement. "Well, BG couldn't beat it with no BLMs in main, and Simd's LS beat with 50 BLMs, and you guys didn't use 50 BLMs, so it must have been nerfed." Then you've got people like Caocao and Pleroma on here, who have a professed dislike for our LS as a whole, and who didn't even have sea access when Simd killed Love saying, "Oh yeah, I saw it, it was totally nerfed." Get over yourselves.

Just to clarify, I thought/think (which tense I dunno) the kill was really cool, and was rooting for an AV win on top of it for you guys. But the claim that we approached JoL halfassed needs to go.

We brought around 45 people, had at least 15 blms, a drk with kraken, a few sam, a few smn, etc. When we popped it, we were almost instantly overwhelmed with the adds. We had to in effect wipe, use one person to continually claim JoL to keep it popped and rearrange our add party. Once we had that done, we attempted to damage JoL. His life never dropped below 98%, and was for almost the entire fight at 99%, which is technically 100, because any DoT on him cause the windower to mark him as not at full health. At one point, we had a 1300dmg chiblast, a drk krakening it, and a handful of blms nuking their full mp out, and its life refused to budge. You claimed we had no blms in our main, thats false. Say what you want, but when we fought it, it would've taken twice the amount of people to move its life.

Thus the reasoning I believe as well that its Regen rate might have been changed. In the end it doesn't change anything, because no one out right said "We > you because we did ok and you didn't." I think some people in my LS just got offended when people from on our server tried to downplay a lot of the hard work that was put into this effort, from farming the Virtues, to organzing the strategy, to implimenting it on the field in the heat, and overreacted to these downplays.

Suiram, who you quoted, is our "Sea Captain," and has put in tons of hours researching Lumoria and its NMs, and motivating us to push forward while a large majority of the LS said "Fuck Sea" for obvious reasons. I can understand his anger when all that time and effort is downplayed to just a "nerf." It was still hard, it was still a lot of work, and its still something I know him and others, including myself, take pride in.

If anyone IS saying "We > you" then its stupid, because progress on a NM like this is server-dependent and is largely based on the failures of others, and they'd be in the wrong IMO.

[Palin]

JoL was a yawn from the adds standpoint, but then again it bugged and only spat out Phuabos which were pathetically easy to handle on our 2nd try. If they fixed that and you actually have to deal with hpemdes and xzomits for the whole fight it'd make the adds aspect of the fight actually somewhat of a job, but really if the regen got nerfed to something realistic, it really seems more in line with a Kirin level fight than a Vrtra level fight.

We had a similar pattern, first Xzomits, Phuabos, and Hpemdes, then just Phuabos, we're not really sure why it does this too, or if its intentional.

[berticus]

No one answered my question (unless I missed it among the flames). What were BG's damage source(s) for JoL, how well were you able to maintain that damage, and alliance setup? I recall in the previous JoL thread you (berticus) stated you felt that since BLMs were required so heavily for the adds that they shouldn't be as necessary for JoL as well.

amarok with kraken, 3 monks with chi blast, couple sams with thf sub, 5-6 people building spirits within, and 5 blms at the very most at one time...

we tried lots of different things and once we realized how hopeless it was/thought it needed some trick we just sort of tested stuff like SMN BPs out

I would say it's up to BG to decide how much JoL was altered from their original try. Mimic what you did before as much as possible and see if it works now (or works better than it did then)... if you're willing.

obviously not interested im glad to see this got fixed and/or you guys killed it. big grats again

[Pikarya]

Yeah <3 BG. Big Kills is actually the biggest motivator for our LS to try and fight other things. Otherwise, we would still be camping Fafnir. lol

[Suiram]

The phuabo thing is weird. I had noticed it with Simd's attempt last November, and it was reported in that blog from the Phoenix player that someone translated for these forums that month as well. We actually tried at first to see if there was something we could do to prevent that from happening, but it caused more confusion than it was worth, and was part of the reason it took us a while to get settled in.

EDIT: I should also point out that I didn't mean to come off as hostile to BG, particularly to any of those members contributing to this thread. Only that I was frustrated with the presumption from other people (particularly non-BG members) that there was some "hidden nerf" leading up to our attempt (In particular, when I remarked, "Get over yourselves." it was directed solely toward the two people I had named, as I feel they were intentionally making statements to diminish our accomplishments and without any real frame of reference about the fight). We never really got detailed reports of your attempt before now, and if what Xavier wrote above is accurate, then it does seem more likely that there was a nerf--though between your attempt and the one the LS on our server that first beat him, as Love appeared to us fairly comperable between the latter attempt and ours, with the possible exception of the lengthened summoning rate.

Also, as a response to Pleroma. We didn't start with a PT of summoners because we believed that BLMs weren't up to the task. We did it because if Nether Blast had done consistant 508 damage, it would have been a much more effective source of damage than BLMs in those slots, after you take into account resists, hate, and relative MP costs. Once we saw that it was only doing 75% damage, the bulk of our SMNs went back to change jobs.

Anyway <3 BG, that other stuff wasn't directed at you.

[RARARARARARA]

Good job Kupo

[Socromon]

Page 40 Can I have it?

[Jawas]

Most people have no idea that Kirin was nerfed so yeah, congrats to Kupo for the huge kill. It would be nice to read constructive posts, and not people talking about a nerf. If they did fix JoL so what, AV is now the big target anyways. I just wish it didnt take months to get JoL pops, so we could see a bigger sample of fights.

[Xavier]

I think the real question is, where's the parser?

Which drk/nin has the biggest e-penis.

[berticus]

was kirin killed prenerf?

[Aerandir]

Bert, why the hell does your WoW profile show you using Peacemaker when Ice barbed spear is much better and so easily obtainable?