AV shadowbind / BLM nuke plan

[Chubbs]

For the original poster:

Not trying to ruin your plan or whatever, but if you had seen the damage AV himself does you can see that there is no way that this can work. Even if he is shadowbound he still has instant cast magic meaning if even 1 person is in his range the whole plan would be messed up. I honestly dont think he is beatable at this time after seeing his incredible damage output. Even if you manage to damage him a little(which seems very hard to do), you still have to survive things like Meikyo Shisui, Mijin Gakure, Chainspell, etc. Unless there is a little trick SE has put in to weaken him(Jailer weapons dont work), then he is unbeatable right now.

[masag0]

For the original poster:

Not trying to ruin your plan or whatever, but if you had seen the damage AV himself does you can see that there is no way that this can work. Even if he is shadowbound he still has instant cast magic meaning if even 1 person is in his range the whole plan would be messed up. I honestly dont think he is beatable at this time after seeing his incredible damage output. Even if you manage to damage him a little(which seems very hard to do), you still have to survive things like Meikyo Shisui, Mijin Gakure, Chainspell, etc. Unless there is a little trick SE has put in to weaken him(Jailer weapons dont work), then he is unbeatable right now.

what if hte person who had hate was not in range of AV? yes its damage is insane, we can assume he fastcasts death but even still, as long as he can receive damage he is defeatable. if this plan cannot work im sure people will think of new plans, although atm i cannot think of any immediate solutions.

before dynamis lord was undefeatable, then poeple started mastering stun. stun is applied to almost every hnm. it is absolutely necessary for Tiamat, Jorm, Vrtra and dynamis lord. we know now that if a mob is stunnable, it can be mass chainspell stunned and defeatable.

shadowbind on the other hand hasn't been explored. we use it to save our ass for suzaku 2hr and seiryu 2hr. but shadowbind chain hasn't been explored yet.

we know AV isn't stunnable. however he is shadowbindable. when poeple fought DL for the first time, they said, this isBS, you see oblivion smash? its impossible to beat. then people started chainspell stunning to counter it. now you can DL in 2 minutes.

the goal here is to figure out how to neutralize AV's offense. besides shadowbind chain, teh only other thing i could think of is using Al'teau landscape to kite. find some building that causes AV to not be able to catch up to the tank. anyways time ispassing too fast. we got our pop set in november but we decided to wait. now its almost febuary and soon summer will come. i hope all LS across all servers can stop arguing whose E penis is bigger, who kill jol first, who kill AV first etc. As long as we all discuss strategy together it doesn't matter who wins first, we all win cuz all our strategies were built over one another.

[Chubbs]

Hate was a major issue on Absolute Virtue, it is hard for a tank to keep hate. A tank can voke it and it completely ignore him if a BLM or anyone else does to much damage.

[masag0]

with shadowbind maybe a tank isn't even necessary. as long as AV is binded and the blm with hate is outside hte perimeter. anyways we'll have to see after the attempt.

[Sigmakan]

You're assuming that since the tank is out of range that AV wont attack. This is incorrect. If the person with the most hate is out of range the mob will look for the next person on the hate list who IS in range.

This can be seen when you bind a mob or when fighting worms. Even if the tank vokes a bound mob, if a whm or whatever is standing by the mob, it will attack them.

However, going by your strat, it is still possible to pull this off. Everytime a RNG bind or a BLM nukes they will need to log off and reset hate so that AV doesnt attack them as soon as they get in range.

Biggest issue I see is, what happens to the BLMs right after they nuke? Both BLMs and RNG might have to sub ninja so that they can absorb any spells that are casted on them as they run away. If its an -aga or meteor . . . well . . . they are fucked and hopefully they don't drag it onto anyone else.

Also, shadowbind is 30secs with AF gloves.

[Chreman]

They did change the bind thing in the last update, perhaps the rules for hate were changed as well?

[Raineh]

Part of me thinks people are over thinking this.
While i understand wyrms/cop wyrms need eveyrthing planing down to the last detail, im not sure this does....

Personaly i think this is more of a KV/DL fight, while i understand they are very diff mobs fact is you have to go in fast and hard planing means nothing aside from sc's.

http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/5777/win5yc.jpg
(taken from a LJ ive read)
Id have thought this impossable without manaburning, but its not and quite insane. It is possable to do the stupid amounts of damage that downing AV is going to need to.

I just wonder if all this swaping in and out of rangers and binding and stuff is wasting time and damage, and from what i see in a AV fight you just dont have time to waste.

Im not saying that i know how to kill him, i dont i wasnt there....
But i do think people should realise this isnt about staying alive you simply cant, its about killing him asap (much like DL)

Think outside the box people.
Dont waste your pop items with things that wont work, wait for a nerf.

[othellojr]

One possibility if you have people go in and out to damage and you want them to /shutdown for hate, it would take just as much time to have everyone bind their HP in Safehold, at least for the Blms, they could warp out immediately after doing dmg, then go back (assuming you have enough people to let them come right back up and rest before their turn, or just have them hit moogles on way back to restore hp/mp). Same thing could be done for the rngs.

[Raineer]

One possibility if you have people go in and out to damage and you want them to /shutdown for hate, it would take just as much time to have everyone bind their HP in Safehold, at least for the Blms, they could warp out immediately after doing dmg, then go back (assuming you have enough people to let them come right back up and rest before their turn, or just have them hit moogles on way back to restore hp/mp). Same thing could be done for the rngs.

I would wager /shutdown does not work on hate reset for AV, similar to other certain NM's^^

[Pleroma]

I just wonder if all this swaping in and out of rangers and binding and stuff is wasting time and damage, and from what i see in a AV fight you just dont have time to waste.

Im not saying that i know how to kill him, i dont i wasnt there....
But i do think people should realise this isnt about staying alive you simply cant, its about killing him asap (much like DL)

The problem is not time, the problem is finding something to nullify his offense. As nasty as DL is he can and has been killed without chain-stun, in other words his damage output comes in devastating bursts but can be managed in between. AV is like an avalanche of pain, he never stops and keeps the damage output at stupidly high levels all the time.

The OP makes a very good point about "finding the next thing to exploit" and while I think AV has a trick to him, this is certainly the most viable "traditional" approach thus far suggested. I would advice that you use your melee add PT to clear a path to the palace and keep the wynav kiters near AV's pop area while the big guy is taken to the Auroral Updraft area. As far as party setups, odds are you WILL get hit with nukes and its gonna suck, so get a BRD and WHM into the BLM and tank PT to keep Wind Carol and Baraero up at all times.

Someone suggested BLMs subbing NIN, I'd advice instead to have them eat witchkabobs and wear some -enmity gear instead of the all offense used for JoL since ultimately Stoneskin+phlanx from /RDM would provide more of a defense taht utsusemi considering how the bastard loves to AoE. From what I saw he did not resist nukes as badly as could be expected so a well merited BLM should have no trouble. Tanks will have to go all HP so you cannot count on gear to help you keep hate. (Reviler helm aside)

One more note, Meteor has a hell of a range as we all know, so while the positioning you are suggesting would protect the non-tanks from -Aga a Meteor may just hit your RNG and BLM unless you move them at a sharper angle away from the tanks, a triangle formation here might work better.

Also, does anyone know if shadowbind stops Jump?

[Septimus]

One possibility if you have people go in and out to damage and you want them to /shutdown for hate, it would take just as much time to have everyone bind their HP in Safehold, at least for the Blms, they could warp out immediately after doing dmg, then go back (assuming you have enough people to let them come right back up and rest before their turn, or just have them hit moogles on way back to restore hp/mp). Same thing could be done for the rngs.

I would wager /shutdown does not work on hate reset for AV, similar to other certain NM's^^

Shutdown probably will make AV follow you into real life and MPK your friends and family.

[masag0]

One possibility if you have people go in and out to damage and you want them to /shutdown for hate, it would take just as much time to have everyone bind their HP in Safehold, at least for the Blms, they could warp out immediately after doing dmg, then go back (assuming you have enough people to let them come right back up and rest before their turn, or just have them hit moogles on way back to restore hp/mp). Same thing could be done for the rngs.

I would wager /shutdown does not work on hate reset for AV, similar to other certain NM's^^

Shutdown probably will make AV follow you into real life and MPK your friends and family.

you stole that from chuck norris

[Suiram]

As I understood it to work, a bound mob will only attack the person with hate, unless he is out of range, in which case he won't attack anyone. The exception to this being if someone stands within melee range of it, in which case he will continue to have hate until such time as either A. Someone else stands within melee range or B. the mob becomes unbound. So if a person is within melee range of the bound mob, he'll have spells cast on him as long as neither A nor B occur, even if he runs outside of melee range but stays in casting range.

So, if nobody stands too close when the tank is out of range, it shouldn't be a problem, unless AV's hate-mechanics don't work in this way (which is highly possible, but nothing in our attempts showed us one way or another for this particular strategy).

Also, Meteor and Comet only follow manafont, and while the AoE spread is very wide, the casting range is presumably the same. So you could probably just keep him bound and have everyone stay away until font wears.

I don't have an opinion as to whether the overall strategy will work or not.

[Geither]

As stupid as this sounds...CFH when AV pops and see if he's even possible to take down?

[Pleroma]

They did CFH on it eventually, melee zerg is pointless. VgCats explanation:



http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a2...eenShot001.jpg

[Iku]

Dont you know that if you stand next to AV , you will get less dmg from his rapega?

I wonder if AV gonna RR after you defeat him...


Iku deafeated Absolute Virtue

LS>> WOOT
MS>> YAY, DIE BITCH DIE!!!!

Absolute Virtue reraised.

Absolute Virtue: hai gaiz, im bak. LAWLZ!!!

[Kuponut]

Waiting for someone to make a post telling them to try Jailer Weapons

[GRT]

if this plan fails, then the only method left seems to be having 5 or 6 full alliances all TP300 melees or ready-to-nuke blms and just throw themselves at him, no swapping members or anything, just attack > wipe > attack > wipe > attack and hope the last surviving alliance kills it


now... how likely is this the way SE planned for anyone to kill AV? is this the reason why AV isn't aggressive? would you be surprised? lol

[Khamsin]

if this plan fails, then the only method left seems to be having 5 or 6 full alliances all TP300 melees or ready-to-nuke blms and just throw themselves at him, no swapping members or anything, just attack > wipe > attack > wipe > attack and hope the last surviving alliance kills it


now... how likely is this the way SE planned for anyone to kill AV? is this the reason why AV isn't aggressive? would you be surprised? lol

From what it looked like, watching Kupo, they did try getting TP, having mages at the ready, to blast it as much as possible before wiping.

Between the time they aggroed AV off the dedicated keep-it-from-depopping guy, to the time they wiped, they took it down to 99%.

5-6 alliances doing the same, one after another, would take it to 94% at most.

As for testing theories, a surprising number of things were tested. From the time AV popped, until they finally let him depop, the evening pretty much went like this:

Kupo gets ready for whatever tactic they're going to try, then engage
Wipe
Someone from the spectators tries something while Kupo raises up
Wipe
Kupo tries something else
Wipe
The JP team that beat JoL last time tries something while Kupo raises up
Wipe
Kupo tries something else
Wipe
Someone else from the spectators tries something while Kupo raises up
Wipe
Repeat 100x until people finally give up and CFH
Everyone rushes in to attack AV
Wipe
People start warping out, giving up, though a few remain to poke AV
Wipe
Those people finally let AV depop
Warp

[GRT]

that's just crazy, considering 99% can be anywhere from 99.0% to 99.9%...

i know this must have been asked before, but i don't have time to read very carefully of that gigantic thread but... XD

what was done when AV's hp drop to 98%? if not {Full Attack!} mode and carefully shedding its HP, approximately how long did it take from 100% to 98%?