Light Gorget

[Russta]

Light Gorget will work for any weapon skills that are Transfixion (any WS that starts Distortion, such as Power Slash), Liquification (any WS that starts a Fusion, such as Red Lotus), Detonation (and WS that starts Gravition, such as Jinpu), Impaction (and WS that ends Fusion, such as Combo) or the pure level 2 Fusion (Mistral, Decimation, Heavy, Arching, Detonator, Empyrial, Kasha, Wheeling Thrust, Hexa) and Fragmentation (Savage Blade, Dragon Kick, Sharkbite, Spin Slash, Ground Strike, Black Halo) weapon skills. I could probably have laid this out better but it should make it easy for you to figure out on your own with the examples I've given.

Does this mean that, say, dark gorget would work with Rampage since Rampage is Scission (earth) which is one of the 'darkness' elements? I was under the impresson that this is false, but that impression came from second-hand information only.

As I'm under the impression this is true I will say yes.

[NynJa]

Light Gorget will work for any weapon skills that are Transfixion (any WS that starts Distortion, such as Power Slash), Liquification (any WS that starts a Fusion, such as Red Lotus), Detonation (and WS that starts Gravition, such as Jinpu), Impaction (and WS that ends Fusion, such as Combo) or the pure level 2 Fusion (Mistral, Decimation, Heavy, Arching, Detonator, Empyrial, Kasha, Wheeling Thrust, Hexa) and Fragmentation (Savage Blade, Dragon Kick, Sharkbite, Spin Slash, Ground Strike, Black Halo) weapon skills. I could probably have laid this out better but it should make it easy for you to figure out on your own with the examples I've given.

Does this mean that, say, dark gorget would work with Rampage since Rampage is Scission (earth) which is one of the 'darkness' elements? I was under the impresson that this is false, but that impression came from second-hand information only.

As I'm under the impression this is true I will say yes.

To be honest, I'm not sure. It begs the question as to why light/dark gorget require 2 yovras. Light, I understand, every fuckin WS opens distortion...but dark ??

Then again, why werent there 2 special obi's like that

[Russta]

Light Gorget will work for any weapon skills that are Transfixion (any WS that starts Distortion, such as Power Slash), Liquification (any WS that starts a Fusion, such as Red Lotus), Detonation (and WS that starts Gravition, such as Jinpu), Impaction (and WS that ends Fusion, such as Combo) or the pure level 2 Fusion (Mistral, Decimation, Heavy, Arching, Detonator, Empyrial, Kasha, Wheeling Thrust, Hexa) and Fragmentation (Savage Blade, Dragon Kick, Sharkbite, Spin Slash, Ground Strike, Black Halo) weapon skills. I could probably have laid this out better but it should make it easy for you to figure out on your own with the examples I've given.

Does this mean that, say, dark gorget would work with Rampage since Rampage is Scission (earth) which is one of the 'darkness' elements? I was under the impresson that this is false, but that impression came from second-hand information only.

As I'm under the impression this is true I will say yes.

To be honest, I'm not sure. It begs the question as to why light/dark gorget require 2 yovras. Light, I understand, every fuckin WS opens distortion...but dark ??

Then again, why werent there 2 special obi's like that

There's no definitive proof of them doing anything and questions just lead to more questions and bemusement. I understand Square like us to find things out for ourselves but this is fucking rediculous...

[Lordwafik]

The gorgets DO a noticable improvement. When we got Aurik his, his asuran fists damage while mnk/nin was doing near the equivelant of what he does as /war, which doest normally happen. If your damage remains the same after you get gorget, either you got the wrong one, or you're awesome.

[DrObvious]

There's no definitive proof of them doing anything and questions just lead to more questions and bemusement. I understand Square like us to find things out for ourselves but this is fucking rediculous...

You can easily test whether they do something. Go out and clobber Too Weaks with sa and you'll see that your damage has increased, or use a ranged ws. The damage increase is very much inline with .1 being added to the ws multiplier on the first hit.

You can pretty much confirm that .1 isn't being added to every hit, because if it was, your ws damage would far outdamage other people who didn't use the gorget on multi-hit ws which doesn't seem to be the case at all.

[Quicklet]

My guess for why light gorget doesn't show any difference for Shark Bite (if it even works for it) is that the damage mods don't affect the DEX or AGI bonuses which make up such a large chunk of THF WS damage. It might have a bigger effect for THF/WAR and with Dancing Edge, but after going through the trouble of farming for light gorget and seeing such bad results I never had the inclination to try any others.

[aurik]

My KRT Asuran Fists damage is much more reliably top-end with flame gorget. That is, whereas before I may have ranged 800-1300 with spike necklace, I now see 1000-1250 a whole lot more often. This is probably the effect of higher accuracy, plus I use meats and never get the brd to sing madrigal.

I can see why, with SATA DE, gorget would be unnoticeable. Most of your damage comes from the SATA strike which is autohit and autocrit already. When your weaponskill damage is very dependant on the number of strikes you land, Gorgets shine.

As for the enhanced damage
http://rukenshin.livejournal.com/11067.html#cutid1
Read that post.

[Eromenos-Ifrit]

From my understanding how they work, Light and Dark Gorgets only work on the weapon skills of Light or Dark element. Ignoring what the WS makes but looking at the WS's actual Element. If you look at the Renkei chart:

http://www.killingifrit.com/images/r...3a62496a3707e4

Light Gorget would only work on :

Power Slash

Vorpal Slash

Double Thrust
Thunder Thrust
Raiden Thrust
Vorpal Thrust
Skewer

Tachi: Enpi
Tachi: Goten

Blade: Rin
Blade: Chi
Blade: Ku

Howling Fist

Evisceration

and Ranger WSs.


Dark Gorget working on:

Starburst
Sunburst

Blade: Ei

One Inch Punch

Black Halo

Keen Edge

Tachi: Kasha

Pentathrust

Nightmare Scythe



Looking at the Renkei chart you can see the exact element of the WSs by looking at the lists towards the bottom, ignoring the top quick links of the last 2 ws's for each weapon.

[Not Kuno]

Sunburst/Starburst lol.

Those WS are unique because their element in a SC changes depending on if it does light element or dark element damage. The element damage it does is random so trying to make a WS or talking about it this way is kinda useless.

[Eromenos-Ifrit]

Was just being complete in the list. And they even though they can do either, they are listed as Dark on the Renkei.

[Not Kuno]

They also do Light on the renkei so to be technical it would be on both lists ;o

Ps. Those 2 WS suck ass so it doesn't matter anyway and I'm gonna stop this discussion now

[nivlakian]

Evisceration should be under the Dark category.

[wop]

http://www.koolaid-ffxi.org/linkshell/s ... of+Science

To the OP, if you are going for Savage blade, get the Breeze Gorget or Thunder Gorget.
Both works fine.


As for gorgets doesn't really work for multihit WS? I don't think so.


My Hexa Strike is consistently stronger when i'm wearing Flame Gorget.

Tested it out comparing Peacock Charm Vs Flame Gorget.

Flame Gorget wins hands down when doing Hexa WS.

[Nagamaki]

Why do people never post parser data and just "it works" or "its better"?

I made 5 out of the 8 gorgets (mainly during the first month after Al'Taieu was made) and have been trying them in various situations since. I still intend to finish the set.

Here's the part where I'm not convinced by rukenshin's post (I read that a long time ago, rukenshin is also on Seraph and started making gorgets awhile after I started trying them) : actually go out to Western Ronfaure and try always using the same WS on the same lv0 Wild Rabbits right by the entrance. With the same gear, same weapon, exact same TP (100%) without using either SA or TA since they're external factors, here's my results with Shark Bite (taken just now with this post window open):

Breeze Gorget
#1 267
#2 306
#3 274
#4 361
#5 350
311.6 average

No neckpiece
#1 286
#2 356
#3 341
#4 284
#5 327
318.8 average

So I don't see the perfectly steady damage and clear observable difference that others say they've seen. I see that with Breeze the top damage was slightly higher, but the low was also slightly lower and on average both setups did pretty much the same, with no neckpiece actually leading by a little bit.

Every WS returned 6% (using a cheap h.harpe since it has no hidden/special stats on WS, just plain dmg 27 and that's it) with SAM sub so there's no issues of TripleA or missing. Also for the record, I did the same tests on the same rabbits and on Xarc giants many months ago using Dragon Kick, and got the same type of result (ie no statistical difference).

If you see a flaw with my tests of have extensive documented test results to the contrary, go right ahead and post, I would seriously love to see all the crap about these gorgets proven.



And a separate point about Shark Bite and Savage Blade, why are people even talking about Light Gorget? If we assume the gorgets that work are the ones associated to the main SC element (Fragmentation) then both of those WS work with Breeze or Thunder, NOT Light. Fragmentation isn't Wind+Light, its Wind+Lightning.

*edit* little extra detail here, I also tried SA SB a bit, but damage variation (without gear changes, same TP and all) was even more, so it doesn't make the damage any more consistent. The same was true as MNK with SA DK. DK and SB are both 2hits so next time I test I'll use Wasp Sting or Viper Bite with a Soil Gorget in case that makes anything more consistent.

[wop]

I don't have parses, but the results below are from Guen.


Did 30 hexas with a DS+1 both with the flame gorget, and without (using a p. charm instead). These were all on the Ul'phauabo (all level 76) just by the entrance to sea (was helping others get their organs). Here's the results sorted from lowest damage to highest.


P. Charm Flame Gorget
204 386
218 402
236 412
238 452
284 455
284 497
285 509
342 512
346 549
381 553
381 553
383 554
420 562
421 568
421 581
468 592
469 598
473 601
474 603
503 642
512 644
567 647
569 647
593 676
598 679
601 703
608 712
622 746
624 749
631 781
Avg: 439 Avg: 586

[Raineer]

I don't have parses, but the results below are from Guen.


Did 30 hexas with a DS+1 both with the flame gorget, and without (using a p. charm instead). These were all on the Ul'phauabo (all level 76) just by the entrance to sea (was helping others get their organs). Here's the results sorted from lowest damage to highest.


P. Charm Flame Gorget
204 386
218 402
236 412
238 452
284 455
284 497
285 509
342 512
346 549
381 553
381 553
383 554
420 562
421 568
421 581
468 592
469 598
473 601
474 603
503 642
512 644
567 647
569 647
593 676
598 679
601 703
608 712
622 746
624 749
631 781
Avg: 439 Avg: 586

obviously the gorgets make no difference

[Nagamaki]

If that data is accurate then pretty clearly there's a difference, assumes conditions were the same in both tests though (food, TP%, gear, dia/def down and so on). The post mentions all the test mobs were lv76 so going to go and accept that variable as verified, phuabo levels vary but its pretty easy to tell if the one you're fighting is/was 76 based on check and the xp given.

Extensive test data is exactly what is needed to really demonstrate an effect, a handful of WSs by one person with results contradicting firsthand tests isn't proof of anything.

[layoneil]

Every WS returned 6%

i thought the Gorgets were meant to be used in situations when every WS doesn't return the same amount of TP. that they are suppose to make multi-hit WS more accurate in landing more hits. which in turn would result in high damage by minimizing the lower damage WS.

your "test" seems to do everything to make that a non-factor.

[Nagamaki]

My test was a reproduction of the rukenshin test that was being quoted. I also did tests in KRT xp, Dynamis and organ farming with Asuran Fists and Dragon Kick, but those tests can't really be done solo and conditions aren't quite as controlled because the mob level will vary and so will the presence of debuffs and other factors. My results in those tests were just as inconclusive, but they were done months ago and I didn't save all the damage records so I don't have data to post, I'll take some new records when I have an opportunity.

The point of the bunny test isn't really about the gorget, clearly you can't observe an accuracy bonus on lv0 mobs. However according to rukenshin's post, every WS using the same gear on the lv0 wild rabbits should do the exact same damage, and damage using the same gear but with the appropriate gorget should always do the slightly higher damage. In my experience, that is not the case. Is it because Steel Cyclone and Rampage produce less damage variation? Is it because some sort of stat cap (that I don't hit already as THF74) is needed and once you hit that you'll always do the same damage? As far as I know that isn't the case. I also added in the edit about using SA to try and make the damage steadier, but it doesn't work. DK and SB are just as inconsistent with Sneak Attack as they are without.

The gorget effect states that it increases accuracy AND damage, so if you can find a situation in which your WS does perfectly reliable damage and compare it with and without the gorget, you'd get a clear indication of whether or not the gorget effect is active based on the modification applied to damage. The problem is finding a situation where this perfectly reliable damage occurs. If WS worked like nukes (damage directly based on stats, no random variation beside resist and day/weather, which are both very obvious and easy to control) this would be stupidly easy to test, but they simply don't.

*edit* some spelling, and added the ()s about the stat cap

[DrObvious]

Sub ranger, use ranger main, or find a ranger somewhere and use slugshot, it's an obvious difference. Or, you can waste time getting all 8 gorgets if it makes you feel better.

Whether or not rukenshin is right about the sneak attack thing making damage consistent or not, ranged weapon skills ARE consistent against those lowbie mobs, at least on a ranger main. I saw the same damage increase as rukenshin did regarding sidewinder/slugshot.