So yeah I been having this discussion on KI

[Vinen]

Question...(mostly for Wafik, but curious how others do it too)...How do you encourage people to keep coming to Dynamis? You mentioned you let people lot 2 AF2 but doesn't it get to a point where some people stop coming because they don't need anything from a specific zone? Or is your LS a tightly knit group of people who just love doing dynamis? In my LS, we've incorperated Dynamis into a linkshell activity and offer guild points to anyone who comes so people feel they are walking away with something at least even if they don't get/don't need AF2 from the zone. However I know if we didn't offer points then the chances of getting more than a few dedicated people are slim to none.

Or they stop coming because Dynamis is boring as hell. I'd rather slit my wrists then go on RDM.

[epigram]

The only dynamis I do as rdm is Xarc, and that is only if we are going to kill DL.

Dynamis is only fun when you try new things, or go with only a hand full of people.

[Septimus]

Must level WAR faster so I can have fun in Dynamis...

[Muze]

Question...(mostly for Wafik, but curious how others do it too)...How do you encourage people to keep coming to Dynamis? You mentioned you let people lot 2 AF2 but doesn't it get to a point where some people stop coming because they don't need anything from a specific zone? Or is your LS a tightly knit group of people who just love doing dynamis? In my LS, we've incorperated Dynamis into a linkshell activity and offer guild points to anyone who comes so people feel they are walking away with something at least even if they don't get/don't need AF2 from the zone. However I know if we didn't offer points then the chances of getting more than a few dedicated people are slim to none.

Or they stop coming because Dynamis is boring as hell. I'd rather slit my wrists then go on RDM.

Bring your rdm and knife tomorrow Vinen, we might go touch DL's tra la la again

[CaladbolgSiren]

In any case, at my current rate of income, and with the way inflation is on Remora, if I spent gil on nothing else I could work up 200 mill in about 3-4 months time to simply outright buy my way to be on stage 3. Which, well, that's not an out of the question goal for myself. I want it that bad, and I'm completely capable of making that kind of gil if I put forth the effort. Is there a problem with that?

Im not trying to offend you, but i dont think you know how much all 4 stages of upgrading cost.

If we go by remoran currency :

First Upgrade :
4x 100 byne : 40,000,000 gil

Second Upgrade :
16 x L.Jadeshell : 160,000,000 gil

Third Upgrade :
61 x M.Silverpeice : 610,000,000 gil

Fourth Upgrade :
100 x 100 byne : 1,000,000,000 gil


It's a much longer process than you think it is, sure you can farm up 160m over a few months, but after you do that stage, you'll be overwhelmed. upgrade2 is 4x upgrade1, upgrade 3 is almost 4x upgrade2.

In addition to the currencies, your Dynamis LS also has to then defeat some of the most challenging NM's in FFXI, to get the attestation rare/ex items , to combine with your weapon when talking to the goblin. The attestation mobs (used for third upgrade) are very annoying, you can kill them and sometimes they wont drop the attestation for your weapon.

That there is something that mystery tour doesn't exactly let you know about. And honestly I didn't know about till you said it. One word to describe that amount of money is...absurd.

[amlaruil]

The latest info on MysteryTour lists 10,000 Byne Bill, R. Goldpiece, or R. Stripeshell for the last upgrade. These are all made by combining 100 x 100 pieces, and it's become pretty common knowledge that to get any full relic requires around 17-18,000 dynamis currency. So if you're fine with getting 200 coins a year, welcome to spending the next 90 years upgrading.

[Muze]

In any case, at my current rate of income, and with the way inflation is on Remora, if I spent gil on nothing else I could work up 200 mill in about 3-4 months time to simply outright buy my way to be on stage 3. Which, well, that's not an out of the question goal for myself. I want it that bad, and I'm completely capable of making that kind of gil if I put forth the effort. Is there a problem with that?

Im not trying to offend you, but i dont think you know how much all 4 stages of upgrading cost.

If we go by remoran currency :

First Upgrade :
4x 100 byne : 40,000,000 gil

Second Upgrade :
16 x L.Jadeshell : 160,000,000 gil

Third Upgrade :
61 x M.Silverpeice : 610,000,000 gil

Fourth Upgrade :
100 x 100 byne : 1,000,000,000 gil


It's a much longer process than you think it is, sure you can farm up 160m over a few months, but after you do that stage, you'll be overwhelmed. upgrade2 is 4x upgrade1, upgrade 3 is almost 4x upgrade2.

In addition to the currencies, your Dynamis LS also has to then defeat some of the most challenging NM's in FFXI, to get the attestation rare/ex items , to combine with your weapon when talking to the goblin. The attestation mobs (used for third upgrade) are very annoying, you can kill them and sometimes they wont drop the attestation for your weapon.

That there is something that mystery tour doesn't exactly let you know about. And honestly I didn't know about till you said it. One word to describe that amount of money is...absurd.

Ofcourse you can always try to burrow the last 3000 currency from some friend. However, don't always rely on mystery tour or website, especially on relic upgrades. When relic was firs introduced, there was no information on commission cost for stage 2->3 upgrade, after that there was no stage 3->4 or 4->5 upgrade neither since you need to turn in the attestation to know what currency you need for the next upgrade (I could've saved so much more currency if I know I need T.whiteshell for stage 3 upgrade, which later I confirmed with Graident through PM). Morever, even if someone did manage to upgrade, they don't always turn in their infromation to mysterytour. I have talked to many people who never know you need currency for stage 3->4 upgrade, They just though they need the attestation and they're all set ( It wasnt too uncommon to see people suddenly hored a buch of currency, get to stage 3, then quit back then).

[Vinen]

The only dynamis I do as rdm is Xarc, and that is only if we are going to kill DL.

Dynamis is only fun when you try new things, or go with only a hand full of people.

Bingo.

[Muze]

The only dynamis I do as rdm is Xarc, and that is only if we are going to kill DL.

Dynamis is only fun when you try new things, or go with only a hand full of people.

Bingo.

vinen remember that time we didn Windurst with 18 people?

[Lordwafik]

Question...(mostly for Wafik, but curious how others do it too)...How do you encourage people to keep coming to Dynamis? You mentioned you let people lot 2 AF2 but doesn't it get to a point where some people stop coming because they don't need anything from a specific zone? Or is your LS a tightly knit group of people who just love doing dynamis?

Hm well, to be honest im surprised that we have such high attendance each week. There are about 20-25 people who've been here right from the start and freaking LOVE dynamis, and there's other people who get AF2's then float out again, or like recently one of our members who obtained over 11 AF2's from various jobs, got dissapointed that someone who delevelled won lot over him and left the LS because "All this LS's af2 goes to waste". Nice meeting you.

Anyway, Our rules pretty much are , how do i put it "hook in the mouth". I kind of trap my members

Miss 2 runs in a row of dynamis > cant lot next week, have to come 1 week of no lotting, then week after that you can lot.

Miss 3 runs in a row of dynamis > cant lot for next 2 runs, have to come 2 weeks of no lotting, then week after that you can lot.

Even though some people might abuse it and come 1 week > miss 1 week, they're still coming to dynamis, and I dont mind. This system has been the best system for me so far. It prevents the whole stocking up on points, then leaving dynamis for 2 months, then coming back and having someone lot on something else and then leaving the LS again. Shadow Mantle are handed out by my point system (i point at you, and you may cast lots) as are the TH+1 thf af2 in dyna-Xarca. Shadow rings are free lot

Also the reason people want to come every week, my dynamis LS is one of the most Powerful dynamis LS's on asura (maybe the most even). We've killed DL like he's nothing more than once , killed animated weapons, killed Hydra NM's without sac pulling (we just killed everything on the way to the Nue eye and then came back for the NM). All this however done with no tanks, and no melee (unless you count 2x THF for TH3 melee), and no WHM. My LS's roster is entirley BLM RDM SMN BRD, and most people have fun, rdm might refresh, but in beauc/xarc, they're kiters of NM. SMN dont party buff, unless it's a SJ free zone, they're using their avatars to tank hydras till we're ready. BLM are spamming their biggest spells they have and not worrying about consequences, as opposed to normal dynamis where your 3 spells are Sleepga2, sleepga1 and stun.
Alot of our blm are people with multi-jobs, but come to my dynamis on BLM since it's fun. Some even levelled a mage just to join my shell :D

[Sidd]

you could do what aurac has been promoting to the LS that virgil is sponsoring

See, no more evil than Wafik; and everyone loves Wafik ^.~

difference is virgil is sponsoring A 2ND dynamis shell when edi aleady has one.

i don't care too much about it - just funny how aurac, others are acting about it.

[Arokh]

And why is it only those that have or are steadily working towards their on stage 5 that say such things?


My annoyance wasn't directed at you Lordwafik, I asked a simple question and you gave me a simple to the point answer. Thank you.


So are these big numbers supposed to scare me? And what makes Nynja so presumptuous that I'll be ready to quit just because it looks hard. My issue isn't that you're saying it's difficult. But difficult or not, it can't be impossible. There's plenty of people on multiple servers making steady progress in Stage 3 and Stage 4 onto 5 already, Muze obviously owns Spharai.

So um... everyone who has as much drive and want to have one as these people is supposed to just quit now because some Emo punk on a forum says it's hard? If that's enough to stop someone, yah, it isn't for them. But regardless of your misdirected aggression people are going to still try and still waste currency no matter what. Without hope humans have little to nothing to drive them forward.

[Eaglestrike]

I don't know anyone who has a relic 5 without either massive LS support (full sponsorship of runs or something) and/or generous friends that give them money.

It's a lot more work than you think and you have to start spending a lot of time in game working for it, if you even try to be a 'casual' player I'd say this is an impossible task for you.

[aurik]

To be blunt, I think it's pretty fucking stupid to upgrade "casually". If you upgrade casually, what does that mean? 200 coins a month? If 200, then you're going to get your final relic after upgrading casually after 75 months, assuming you borrow the last 3k.

75 months. That's a long time. That's longer than just "a long time", that's a real fucking long time. That's over 6 years. If you started "casually upgrading" on Dynamis launch you'd finish in summer 2010. No offense, are you even going to be playing this game in 2010?

Ok, let's bump it up to 400 coins a month. That's (at current prices) 25-40 mil per month, varying by server. It's a decent amount of work to pull in that kind of money. Not only is it a decent amount of work, you're going to have to do that kind of work and see no character improvement for it for 3 years.

But let's say you are going to put in that effort and get your relic weapon in 3 years....do you even know that your weapon is going to still be relevant at that time? For example, I know that the spharai are only a bit better than Destroyers. That means if SE ever adds a weapon that is better than Destroyers, either 1) it will be so difficult to obtain that it might as well not be in the game or 2) all the work you spent upgrading just went to waste.

Do you even know that you'll be playing the same job in 3 years? Do you even know that you'll be playing the same GAME in 3 years? There's so much uncertainty in 3 years, you might as well buy other equipment now and figure the differential in power over the next 3 years will outweigh the amount of benefit you ever get from having relic before you quit.

Personally I think if you can't fund the weapon in 18 months, you shouldn't bother.

[rahskala]

do you even know that your weapon is going to still be relevant at that time?

Given the rate of gear progression over the last two years since Zilart was released... yes, it probably will.

To the rest of the post: Agree 100%.

[netz]

you could do what aurac has been promoting to the LS that virgil is sponsoring

See, no more evil than Wafik; and everyone loves Wafik ^.~

difference is virgil is sponsoring A 2ND dynamis shell when edi aleady has one.

i don't care too much about it - just funny how aurac, others are acting about it.

Gorgarath sure loves it. He even moved up his Wednesday start time so our LS only dynamis can never do Xarcabard again on that day. He feels it's entirely greedy of us to run 2 dynamis on the same day in parallel.

Kirianna's on the path to Kikoku. He wants it done, and with the current market prices and his income, it isn't going to happen anytime soon, so Virgil came up with a solution, albeit with blatant disregard to everyone else scheduling dynamis on a Wednesday or Saturday evening. A few other people are kinda floating around the stage 3 phase, so more cheap currency would be a good boost to them as well.

I can see part of their complaint, though -- the people who go on those runs are in no way allowed to purchase any of that dynamis currency. For EDI members, that's standard practice. Only a few serious upgraders are allowed to touch the currency after each run, like Kirianna. I guess it's a shock to the rest of the Garuda player base because they're all used to getting their whopping 5-10 autolot coins from the other shitty runs in which they have participated in the past and feel cheated that if they were to go on those runs they would no longer be able to make a significant profit for the entry fee they paid to obtain them. To me, that's greedy. I don't see how we're greedy when the people who willingly go along with our 2nd LS know this and understand what the conditions are.

Oh well, life goes on. They'll always bitch about how we're making progress at the expense or blatant disregard of others, and our lack of fairness.

[Lordwafik]

The problem with relic weapons is, these werent designed with "everyone in mind" , as in, not everyone will have one if they want. Muze said it best in another thread, "Not everyone was meant to have relic weapons". The bad thing to that is, people take offence to that, and people think he's being arrogant when he says it. No, not every bard who comes once per 3 weeks to dynamis is gonna get it. No, miss lvl73 blm might never get her staff, especially considering she's been 73 for 2 years. Etc etc.

Now us in the western world dont like to be intimidated by anything, it's out culture that has trained us into equal-rights and political correctness crap, and when you tell people "You will NOT get ____" they dont like that. Heck I bet this game would be sued if it was US based. Actully it wouldnt get sued, because relic weapons would probably be acheivable

[Sidd]

you could do what aurac has been promoting to the LS that virgil is sponsoring

See, no more evil than Wafik; and everyone loves Wafik ^.~

difference is virgil is sponsoring A 2ND dynamis shell when edi aleady has one.

i don't care too much about it - just funny how aurac, others are acting about it.

Gorgarath sure loves it. He even moved up his Wednesday start time so our LS only dynamis can never do Xarcabard again on that day. He feels it's entirely greedy of us to run 2 dynamis on the same day in parallel.

Kirianna's on the path to Kikoku. He wants it done, and with the current market prices and his income, it isn't going to happen anytime soon, so Virgil came up with a solution, albeit with blatant disregard to everyone else scheduling dynamis on a Wednesday or Saturday evening. A few other people are kinda floating around the stage 3 phase, so more cheap currency would be a good boost to them as well.

I can see part of their complaint, though -- the people who go on those runs are in no way allowed to purchase any of that dynamis currency. For EDI members, that's standard practice. Only a few serious upgraders are allowed to touch the currency after each run, like Kirianna. I guess it's a shock to the rest of the Garuda player base because they're all used to getting their whopping 5-10 autolot coins from the other shitty runs in which they have participated in the past and feel cheated that if they were to go on those runs they would no longer be able to make a significant profit for the entry fee they paid to obtain them. To me, that's greedy. I don't see how we're greedy when the people who willingly go along with our 2nd LS know this and understand what the conditions are.

Oh well, life goes on. They'll always bitch about how we're making progress at the expense or blatant disregard of others, and our lack of fairness.

who are you netz?

but other than that - yea, life goes on. i don't care about kiri getting a relic katana, or anyone getting a relic anything on our server. There are people out there that want to make a bit of money on an entry fee, and thats fine. There are ls's that hoard currency. thats fine.

Gorg will be gorg. and thats fine too, i guess.

i don't think his wanting to run dynamis -xarc earlier on wed. is totally related to your ls' sponsering another shells' runs. Part of it is that unagipower is almost only after xarc, and we/they ( i can't make most runs but i still go at times) go on wed. night. More a fault of SE for not making dynamis a true instance than on gorg for wanting to go to xarc.

idk - unless i'm totally wrong and gorg just hates you guys (which is a possibility) then meh. rambling now, gonna stop.

[Muze]

This thread need:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v647/muze/1933.gifhttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v647/muze/1933.gifhttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v647/muze/1933.gifhttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v647/muze/1933.gif
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v647/muze/1933.gifhttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v647/muze/1933.gifhttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v647/muze/1933.gifhttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v647/muze/1933.gif
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v647/muze/1933.gifhttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v647/muze/1933.gifhttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v647/muze/1933.gifhttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v647/muze/1933.gif
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v647/muze/1933.gifhttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v647/muze/1933.gifhttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v647/muze/1933.gifhttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v647/muze/1933.gif

[Septimus]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v647/muze/d.jpg

Muze, it looks like someone is holding that dog hostage for ransom.