For you legal Heads, Class action against SE possible?

[yuriku]

I don't think International Class actions suits are possible.

Anyone here in Law school? or graduated? that has info?

[Alleya]

If you were a square-enix board member, what would you do?

Sue IGE.com for violating ToS, and hope the jury awards you all their profits for damages. Of course, ToS has trouble standing up in court, so they may be afraid of losing, or they may appreciate the benefits that've been pointed out earlier. All been covered. But players don't have very shaky ground to bring a class-action suit, because it's up to the company whether they chose to excercises the powers granted there-in.

How does IGE damage SE, exactly.

Oh that's right, it doesn't.

[Zigma]

If you were a square-enix board member, what would you do?

Sue IGE.com for violating ToS, and hope the jury awards you all their profits for damages. Of course, ToS has trouble standing up in court, so they may be afraid of losing, or they may appreciate the benefits that've been pointed out earlier. All been covered. But players don't have very shaky ground to bring a class-action suit, because it's up to the company whether they chose to excercises the powers granted there-in.

How does IGE damage SE, exactly.

Oh that's right, it doesn't.

It offers a 3rd party service that is banned by the companies they are offering it for, and by offering that service they are promoting it (although that is not how they make it out to be!) by allowing you to sell virtual currency. This is where the gilsellers come into the picture and then the ToS along with it hurting us, square-enix customers.

[yuriku]

Who cares if it effect SE?

It effect us as players, And SE lack of response just makes it worse.

[djzombie]

You're going after the wrong issue. If you wanted a class action law suit against SE I'm sure you could get them on racism, or something similar to racism. I'm sure there is enough documented proof between screenshots of GM conversations to prove that FFXI is discriminitory towards the NA population.

A perfect example is the post here, trapped in jail. One japanese player from one of the linkshells was jailed, he was released within minutes, the rest of the NA's sat there for hours.

If you're going after a class-action lawsuit, you have much more of a legal leg to stand on persueing this topic than you do about gil-sellers.

[Sidd]

if you don't like the game, stop playing.

[rahvin]

http://www.allakhazam.com ?

im sure you will find ppl who care there

[deadzee]

Mdn I like you signature.

[dietvanillapepsi]

1) Nobody's forcing you to play.
2) Your fee is to pay for access to a game.
3) SE is not guaranteeing that you will enjoy the game.
4) Even if all gil (or gill) sellers were bagged and tagged, SE is still under no obligation to provide you with uber gear. (see #2)

Are you able to log in? Is the game working properly for you? Then SE's legal responsibility is done. Thank you for your $12.

On a side note, I'm going to sue Ubisoft because my brother keeps kicking my ass in Halo.

[Raineer]

If you were a square-enix board member, what would you do?

Sue IGE.com for violating ToS, and hope the jury awards you all their profits for damages. Of course, ToS has trouble standing up in court, so they may be afraid of losing, or they may appreciate the benefits that've been pointed out earlier. All been covered. But players don't have very shaky ground to bring a class-action suit, because it's up to the company whether they chose to excercises the powers granted there-in.

1) IGE helps SE more than any other single entity... Think how many people are still playing solely because they can RMT their way through the inflation and not farm

2) Is the ToS a legal document at all? It's a bunch of arbitrary rules that they set that you are supposed to follow while you pay for their service.

Example... A taxicab driver has a rule that you can't smoke in his cab.. You light up a cigarette and he kicks you out of the cab and doesn't refund your money. The next person to get in the cab is a hot blonde and he lets her smoke all she wants. Are you allowed to sue the cab driver because he didn't enforce his rules with her?

No

[yuriku]

The Taxi refrence really doesn't apply to this situation.

Why?

1. I'm not breaking any rules.


2. Becuase FFXI is a severvice

In the Terms of this service, it says RMT is not allowed.

This is what we pay for, a service that doesn't allow RMT; Do we get that? No


And on a side not... I'm suprised so many people are against the idea of removing RMT. Kinda interesting.

And the halo refrence is just retarded, Get you head out of a video game

[Flarega]

/cue Nynja's AH picture

[Posterboy]

if you don't like the game, stop playing.

[djzombie]

if you don't like the game, stop playing.

I have.

[Raineer]

The Taxi refrence really doesn't apply to this situation.

Why?

1. I'm not breaking any rules.


2. Becuase FFXI is a severvice

In the Terms of this service, it says RMT is not allowed.

This is what we pay for, a service that doesn't allow RMT; Do we get that? No


And on a side not... I'm suprised so many people are against the idea of removing RMT. Kinda interesting.

And the halo refrence is just retarded, Get you head out of a video game

1) Who said you were breaking any rules? You want to sue SE because gilsellers exist.

2) ToS does not define your gameplay. As said earlier, you are able to connect to the PoL service and properly login to it's service, SE's legal responsility is done. SE is not responsible for the players within. Do they police it? Sure. But they aren't responsible.

If that was true you could sue police departments or the government if a family member got murdered, because they are supposed to prevent it and you pay their salaries via taxes.

As for the gilsellers, I'm not against removing RMT (although that kills my clothcraft profits)...but i'm surprised how many people are naive to the fact that SE has a STRONG reason to keep it around.

[shihei]

fish botting is what screwed/blessed this game

how many ppl do you think (gillseller or not) got there gil maxed out from this, and other ways like that barone thing (i never knew about this)

Anyone honestly think a LS is gonna be able to farm 1 million gil for a dynamis in 3 days, and i mean legit ways(create new gil), without playing 24/7

gil from those botters, ige banks, eventually trickles down into normal players hands (farmers)

this game would be ALOTdifferent if there weren't like 20+ ppl(player/giillsellers) each server with maxed gil

[Chumm]

The taxi example was right on, but confusing since you're not breaking rules. So, the coffee shop:

You go to a coffee shop and pay for your cup of coffee.
Cop comes into the coffee shop and he gets free coffee.
Can't do shit about that, the rule is that you pay for coffee. The clerk can choose to make an exception to the rule, but you are in no way ever entittled to received the same exception, since the written rules are clearly stated (the menu says coffee costs a dollar).

Gilsellers can be an exception to the ToS if GMs and producers decide to, that doesn't give you any recourse. Only if you were punished under these rules despite having done nothing wrong (kicked out of the coffee shop for being an Arab for example) would you have any recourse. The folks who got banned recently can't say shit about JPs not being banned if they themselves commited a bannable offense. If they did not, then they can argue the point.

At the end of the day the law doesn't give a shit because playing FFXI is a choice. A retarded choice these days, but a choice none the less. Want to change the way a company provides it's service? Don't pay them your money. Your dollar means 1000x more than your voice.

[djzombie]

Gilsellers can be an exception to the ToS if GMs and producers decide to, that doesn't give you any recourse. Only if you were punished under these rules despite having done nothing wrong (kicked out of dragon's aery for being american) would you have any recourse. The folks who got banned recently can't say shit about JPs not being banned if they themselves commited a bannable offense. If they did not, then they can argue the point.

Fixed that for ya.

[Raineer]

The taxi example was right on, but confusing since you're not breaking rules. So, the coffee shop:

You go to a coffee shop and pay for your cup of coffee.
Cop comes into the coffee shop and he gets free coffee.
Can't do shit about that, the rule is that you pay for coffee. The clerk can choose to make an exception to the rule, but you are in no way ever entittled to received the same exception, since the written rules are clearly stated (the menu says coffee costs a dollar).

ooook.... I get your point. That's correct, the coffee shop is a better example.

Or, it's like... The guy before you smoked in the cab and didn't get kicked out, and now you're in the cab complaining because it smells like smoke and want to sue because there is a rule against smoking. At the end of the day, you paid for a cab and the driver took you to your destination. He doesn't promise how you get there.

i win!

[Posterboy]

Gilsellers can be an exception to the ToS if GMs and producers decide to, that doesn't give you any recourse. Only if you were punished under these rules despite having done nothing wrong (kicked out of dragon's aery for being american) would you have any recourse. The folks who got banned recently can't say shit about JPs not being banned if they themselves commited a bannable offense. If they did not, then they can argue the point.

Fixed that for ya.

That would be true.........if it wasn't false. If you had read the thread, they (accidentally) mpked the JPs, cause by curaga spam behind Fafnir after the JPs had stolen it. The GM "supposedly" punished the JPs too (slap on the wrist) along with the NAs. So basically, they weren't kicked out of DA for being American, they were jailed for mpking (deliberately or not). Now, I don't agree with what happened of course, and it made me upset too, so don't think I'm a Japophile or whatever.