For you legal Heads, Class action against SE possible?

[bercus]

buy gil and then see who it's being sent to your delivery box by? ban that account and all accounts with the same cc or same pol id, ban accounts which have interacted with the account, either sending to or recieving from

there you go! no more gil sellers with the added benefit of all you RMT kids being removed as well

I thought the same. It wouldnt cost Square a lot to buy 100k from all the Gilsellers sites for all diffrent servers right at one day. They would get at least 3 BIG mules from Gilsellers to ban. And kaboom do it over and over again. Or Track Ips Back then. But no, they are idiots.

[bercus]

fish botting is what screwed/blessed this game

how many ppl do you think (gillseller or not) got there gil maxed out from this, and other ways like that barone thing (i never knew about this)

Anyone honestly think a LS is gonna be able to farm 1 million gil for a dynamis in 3 days, and i mean legit ways(create new gil), without playing 24/7

gil from those botters, ige banks, eventually trickles down into normal players hands (farmers)

this game would be ALOTdifferent if there weren't like 20+ ppl(player/giillsellers) each server with maxed gil

Do you really think without fish botting game would be better?
Without fishbotting i dont wanna know how high Sushis would be now.

[Lockecole]

I can agree, realistically (and that is the key word)...that complaining here, and about the game, will do absolutely nothing.

To say that we should just accept the game the way it is though...is a horrible thing to say, about anything in your life. Accepting ANYTHING that isn't what it should be in your life, is the mentality that keeps so many of us in a rut. Either do something about FFXI, legitamately try and find a way to influence SE enough to make them change things, or quit. This game, in its present state, just isn't worth playing for so many people if it's seriously causing you so much discorse.

Do I think we CAN make a difference in SE's decision making process. Yes. If enough people make a stand. Do I think this will actually happen? I don't know, I'm not in a position to make that decision. Sadly I don't care enough for FFXI's present lackadaisical state enough to put up a fight. Someone out there might though...and to say its not possible, is to say all of the seemingly impossible things people have achieved in the history of mankind were never possible also.

I think there's a right way of doing it, and I really don't think anyone here is going about that way. My advice to so many people, is this particular metaphor.

FFXI is like life. There's so many horrible aspects of life, and humanity, that if we constantly involve ourselves in those things, and continue to try and strive and live within the constraints of those things, we will never find happiness. To concentrate on the good things in life, and to try and find out what makes us happy, is the key to enjoying both life and FFXI.

[Heian]

So taking the whole "If you don't like it, don't pay for it," I guess that holds true for riding the bus too? Afterall, your paying for the service of getting from point A to point B, and anything that happens imbetween those destinations doesn't matter. If you don't like what happens imbetween there, find a different way of getting to point B from point A.

Tell that to blacks in the 1950's.

Your comparision has no merit, that is a public transit service and this is an entertainment service. You're right about some people not having a choice in bus/transit systems but those are also pulic services that the government on local, state and federal levels help support and promote.

People have a a choice in entertainment services, so yes, if you don't like it don't play it. I choose to play this game for entertainment, you don't have to. If you feel that you are not getting the entertainment service that you are paying for, then stop paying for it.

[shihei]

not better, just alot different, maybe even worse even

[rahvin]

Yeah, Cofee house example is a little bit more in line, but I think point I'm trying to make is still being missed.


Lets say you enter the same coffee And have prepaid for 15 coffee's , and order a large coffe Black with Sugar. You get your Coffee and it come with Cream and Sugar.... and it's Cold!!!!

You aproach the coffee house rep and get the reply ( We will look into this matter, And get no refund and still have 14 prepaid coffee's)

Next Day: You enter the coffee house and order again "Black with Sugar" And you recieve some sort of French Blend mocha crap!!!! And never get your refund, and the same shitty reply ( We will look into this)

And this continues everyday untill all your prepaid coffee's have been used

How is this similar?

We are not getting what we are paying for


When this happend to AOL users years back, their class action resulted in AOL loosing millions, and eventually AOL correcting the issue. What is the difference here? AOL members stood up for themselves, FFXI players just roll over and take it.

People say just quit....

I should havn't too, I should get what I pay for.

It seems that we are paying for a game called "Try and beat the Chinaese botter" not FFXI.

YOU DO GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR!!!!!!!!!!!!!

you get the ability to log on to SE's servers when you choose to. You get the ability to play a game. THATS ALL YOU GET. You cannot sit there and start looking into ppl's account just because you "suspect" them to be gil sellers. SE if they did that, would be setting themselves up for a major lawsuit, bc ppl could say they where targeted and investigated from racial profiling (as in looking at accounts which came from China). If you dont like the game leave. You have the right to log on and play the game. SE DOES NOT have to provide you with an enjoyable experience. If they tried to make everyone happy this game would be so fucked up. Look at what the fucking pussies on alla did with the mpk issue, it got a job nerfed. Get over it, there is nothing which you can do to fix this problem.

Please lock this thread

Actually you don't. Lets take a few exemples:

You have a problem with anything in this game, so you call a GM. But w/e your problem is, all you can get is: "Thanks for your GM call, and have a good day adventurer!".
Hell, you can see some thread here with some people telling a GM told them to delete his Char Lv.75 because there was a bug, and start another Char. Problem is the game has almost no customers service. You have two compagny, and the one that takes care of the customers service know almost nothing of the game.

I remember one day asking a GM about a NM glitch (don't remember, I think the NM just went invisible or something) and the GM told me to check the Forums to know how to kill the NM...

A game is not only "You pay, you play, now shut up". If you have a problem, you should be able to solve it. When people break rules, they should be punish. But I don't see anything of that.

I don't see SE solving all the problems in Sea, or the new Dynamis zones. I don't see them make some new fun Event or anything. All I see is their pathetic attempts to get some more new people to join their game. But their purpose isn't to make you enjoy the game right? You fail.[/quote]

no i believe you fail for making assumptions on what se should and shouldnt be doing. First off who says sea, dynamis and sky are not the way SE intended them to be? Are you a developer? i think not. Matter of fact i remember seeing an interview where someone from SE said that they intended the drop rate and whatnot to be low. I guess you missed that when you are reading these forums spouting wrong information. so therefore you are making assuptions that they are broken, so in that regard you are a failure for making assumptions. Their pathetic attempts to get new ppl to join their game is what any company would do. Just becuase again you see it as a pathetic attempt not everyone else does. That is yet another assumption, so you fail again.

When you make a Gm call the only thing SE HAS to do is take the information down. They are not required to come back to you with a 5 page essay on what they did with your call and how they handled it. Get over yourself in thinking that they have to give you more of a response than what they do. I personnaly have had EVERY gm talk to me to find out what the problem was whenever i had to call them. I have NEVER gotten blown off. So in my experiences the gm's do try to find out what the problem is.

Finally yes their purpose is to make you enjoy the game, but have you thought about how many ppl actually play this game? Millions. How the fuck are they supposed to make each and every person happy? I see no problem with sky but you do. So how are they supposed to make it where each and every person is happy? They cant, so therefore they try to make as many ppl happy as possible, fully knowing it will piss off other ppl. Just becuase you are not happy doesnt mean everyone else isnt happy as well. Congratulations of being a failure, please try to formulate a stronger argument next time. you fail.

[Daahan]

FFXI wouldn't exist without us consumers paying for it and our enjoyment in playing the game wouldn't exist if SE didn't offer it to us.

0/11 on Mysticmaker for the win!

[Raineer]

0/11 on Mysticmaker for the win!

You should sue SE because you aren't paying $12.95/mo to not get drops, at least that's what I've gathered from the thread.

[Not Kuno]

Daahan you don't count how many times you dont claim in your drop record.

[yuriku]

0/11 on Mysticmaker for the win!

You should sue SE because you aren't paying $12.95/mo to not get drops, at least that's what I've gathered from the thread.

Your not abosrbing the point. There certain aspects of the game that we pay for that cannot be done because of gillselling botters.

In the past weeks, I've seen gillsellers move to the exact point of cassie's spawn when she pops. 1 night I could understand them being lucky, but i've seens this happen around 12+ times now. Making these NM's unfightable.

They should put on the ffxi box "Adventure!!! & watch botting gill sellers fight stuff, then try to sell to you items and gil." at least then we would be getting what we are paying for.

[yuriku]

I can agree, realistically (and that is the key word)...that complaining here, and about the game, will do absolutely nothing.

I fully Agree with this. Was just a another suggestion, to get an issue resolved. I'm also a bit tired of hearing about it/ Dealing with it.

I was really hoping to get feedback from some people in lawschool

[Raineer]

0/11 on Mysticmaker for the win!

You should sue SE because you aren't paying $12.95/mo to not get drops, at least that's what I've gathered from the thread.

Your not abosrbing the point. There certain aspects of the game that we pay for that cannot be done because of gillselling botters.

In the past weeks, I've seen gillsellers move to the exact point of cassie's spawn when she pops. 1 night I could understand them being lucky, but i've seens this happen around 12+ times now. Making these NM's unfightable.

They should put on the ffxi box "Adventure!!! & watch botting gill sellers fight stuff, then try to sell to you items and gil." at least then we would be getting what we are paying for.

ehhh, I think you're not exactly absorbing my point either...

I've watched Darklong+co use Mrargus at cassie on Siren too, yes it sucks... You're just trying to make a legal point out of something that isn't. You don't enjoy the game that you're paying for, and you want to sue. The reasons you aren't enjoying have nothing to do with anything, I promise you that SE is not responsible for any of the players in this game.

You're just confusing what is fair or fun with what is legal, and that's my point... The only way to sue SE is to prove they are legally liable here for what players do, which opens a whole can of worms that would never hold up in court.

[rahvin]

0/11 on Mysticmaker for the win!

You should sue SE because you aren't paying $12.95/mo to not get drops, at least that's what I've gathered from the thread.

Your not abosrbing the point. There certain aspects of the game that we pay for that cannot be done because of gillselling botters.

In the past weeks, I've seen gillsellers move to the exact point of cassie's spawn when she pops. 1 night I could understand them being lucky, but i've seens this happen around 12+ times now. Making these NM's unfightable.

They should put on the ffxi box "Adventure!!! & watch botting gill sellers fight stuff, then try to sell to you items and gil." at least then we would be getting what we are paying for.

ehhh, I think you're not exactly absorbing my point either...

I've watched Darklong+co use Mrargus at cassie on Siren too, yes it sucks... You're just trying to make a legal point out of something that isn't. You don't enjoy the game that you're paying for, and you want to sue. The reasons you aren't enjoying have nothing to do with anything, I promise you that SE is not responsible for any of the players in this game.

You're just confusing what is fair or fun with what is legal, and that's my point... The only way to sue SE is to prove they are legally liable here for what players do, which opens a whole can of worms that would never hold up in court.

exactly what everyone has been trying to say. You pay for the ability to

1. log on the SE servers

and

2. play the game

thats it. There is no promise of enjoying the game, or enjoying what other ppl do. That is what we are trying to make you understand.

[NynJa]

0/11 on Mysticmaker for the win!

You should sue SE because you aren't paying $12.95/mo to not get drops, at least that's what I've gathered from the thread.

Your not abosrbing the point. There certain aspects of the game that we pay for that cannot be done because of gillselling botters.

In the past weeks, I've seen gillsellers move to the exact point of cassie's spawn when she pops. 1 night I could understand them being lucky, but i've seens this happen around 12+ times now. Making these NM's unfightable.

They should put on the ffxi box "Adventure!!! & watch botting gill sellers fight stuff, then try to sell to you items and gil." at least then we would be getting what we are paying for.

ehhh, I think you're not exactly absorbing my point either...

I've watched Darklong+co use Mrargus at cassie on Siren too, yes it sucks... You're just trying to make a legal point out of something that isn't. You don't enjoy the game that you're paying for, and you want to sue. The reasons you aren't enjoying have nothing to do with anything, I promise you that SE is not responsible for any of the players in this game.

You're just confusing what is fair or fun with what is legal, and that's my point... The only way to sue SE is to prove they are legally liable here for what players do, which opens a whole can of worms that would never hold up in court.

exactly what everyone has been trying to say. You pay for the ability to

1. log on the SE servers

and

2. play the game

thats it. There is no promise of enjoying the game, or enjoying what other ppl do. That is what we are trying to make you understand.

Maybe SE could make the game playable...instead of having a bunch of chinese gilfarmers running rampant, endgame NM a competition of whos got the best bot, and sea a mind numbing chore of getting drops so rare that calling the drop rate "pathetic" isnt doing justice to it.

Remember when the game was fun ?? I do, I was a little lv30 whm enjoying shit, because I had NEW shit to look forward to. Now, at lv75, its 3 hrs in dragon aery, 3 hrs in behemoths, 3 hrs in VoS...ITS REPETITIVE BORING SHIT.





By your fucked up example, I can retort with this:
You go to a car dealership, and you buy a car.
You sign the papers, and they give you the keys to a broken down piece of shit that doesnt work. You go "WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS SHIT". And they go "SORRY LOL YOU PAID FOR A CAR WE GIVE YOU CAR LOL".

You go to a computer store cause you see an ad for a cheap PC. You inquire about its specs and decide its a hawt deal. They swipe your CC like you swipe your CC at the auction house, and they give you a PC. You take it home, but it doesnt boot up. You look inside, and the mother board has a big hole in it, the processor is fried, and the ram is covered in shit. You bring it back, and the vendor goes "sorry, I cant do anything about this, you paid for a PC, and we gave you a PC", and to make matters worse, they go "no refund because you looked inside the system voiding the warranty".

[Demetrios]

quit the game if you hate it so much

[NynJa]

who said I hate it ??
I said the prime endgame content is lacking...and to be honest, you'd have to either be:
a-naive
b-that LS with the best bot
to believe otherwise.

[Demetrios]

my ls has the best bot, my end game is pretty good

[Sparky]

[quote=NynJa]

0/11 on Mysticmaker for the win!

You should sue SE because you aren't paying $12.95/mo to not get drops, at least that's what I've gathered from the thread.

Your not abosrbing the point. There certain aspects of the game that we pay for that cannot be done because of gillselling botters.

In the past weeks, I've seen gillsellers move to the exact point of cassie's spawn when she pops. 1 night I could understand them being lucky, but i've seens this happen around 12+ times now. Making these NM's unfightable.

They should put on the ffxi box "Adventure!!! & watch botting gill sellers fight stuff, then try to sell to you items and gil." at least then we would be getting what we are paying for.

ehhh, I think you're not exactly absorbing my point either...

I've watched Darklong+co use Mrargus at cassie on Siren too, yes it sucks... You're just trying to make a legal point out of something that isn't. You don't enjoy the game that you're paying for, and you want to sue. The reasons you aren't enjoying have nothing to do with anything, I promise you that SE is not responsible for any of the players in this game.

You're just confusing what is fair or fun with what is legal, and that's my point... The only way to sue SE is to prove they are legally liable here for what players do, which opens a whole can of worms that would never hold up in court.

exactly what everyone has been trying to say. You pay for the ability to

1. log on the SE servers

and

2. play the game

thats it. There is no promise of enjoying the game, or enjoying what other ppl do. That is what we are trying to make you understand.

Maybe SE could make the game playable...instead of having a bunch of chinese gilfarmers running rampant, endgame NM a competition of whos got the best bot, and sea a mind numbing chore of getting drops so rare that calling the drop rate "pathetic" isnt doing justice to it.

Remember when the game was fun ?? I do, I was a little lv30 whm enjoying shit, because I had NEW shit to look forward to. Now, at lv75, its 3 hrs in dragon aery, 3 hrs in behemoths, 3 hrs in VoS...ITS REPETITIVE BORING SHIT.





By your fucked up example, I can retort with this:
You go to a car dealership, and you buy a car.
You sign the papers, and they give you the keys to a broken down piece of shit that doesnt work. You go "WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS SHIT". And they go "SORRY LOL YOU PAID FOR A CAR WE GIVE YOU CAR LOL".

You go to a computer store cause you see an ad for a cheap PC. You inquire about its specs and decide its a hawt deal. They swipe your CC like you swipe your CC at the auction house, and they give you a PC. You take it home, but it doesnt boot up. You look inside, and the mother board has a big hole in it, the processor is fried, and the ram is covered in shit. You bring it back, and the vendor goes "sorry, I cant do anything about this, you paid for a PC, and we gave you a PC", and to make matters worse, they go "no refund because you looked inside the system voiding the warranty".[/quote:cd26e]

Correct Nynja you just made the point of 98% of the posters here. The 2 situations that u made up are both unethical and immoral (sp?), unfortunately both examples are completely legal. if u dont have a written warranty there is no recourse for these types of situations. Many times in life you buy or pay for things " AS IS ". In this specific case u are paying X dollars a month for a broken game. U have to play it AS IS ; ;

[Kenai]

Is it just me, or is complaining about people complaining stupid?

I think that the reason they are complaining is because they DO like the game, and want it to change for the better (or what they believe is better). If you are going to post something stupid like "ENJOY YOURSELF OR GTFO!", you are being kinda lame. When enough people complain about something that can be changed, it more often than not happens. Bitching makes the world go 'round.

But, that being said, you are having a somewhat close-minded opinion about many things. No one is forcing you to camp these end-game NMs, no one is forcing you to fight monsters in Sea, no one is forcing you to do anything in the game. You put too much emphasis on things that aren't necessary at all. SE designed these NMs to be hard to both claim and defeat, to keep you logged in and coming back (although I agree Sea is absolutely god-awful, some people actually like it, I've seen those sick bastaads around these boards even). End-game content is whatever you want it to be. There are way too many things, including ENMs (no competition on those), rarely camped or force pop NMs, other jobs, quests, crafting, skill ups, whatever, for you to say there is "nothing to do". Nothing that you want to do? Do something else in RL, or play another game for a bit, and then come back, and I'm sure something will pop up.

[rahvin]

[quote=NynJa]

0/11 on Mysticmaker for the win!

You should sue SE because you aren't paying $12.95/mo to not get drops, at least that's what I've gathered from the thread.

Your not abosrbing the point. There certain aspects of the game that we pay for that cannot be done because of gillselling botters.

In the past weeks, I've seen gillsellers move to the exact point of cassie's spawn when she pops. 1 night I could understand them being lucky, but i've seens this happen around 12+ times now. Making these NM's unfightable.

They should put on the ffxi box "Adventure!!! & watch botting gill sellers fight stuff, then try to sell to you items and gil." at least then we would be getting what we are paying for.

ehhh, I think you're not exactly absorbing my point either...

I've watched Darklong+co use Mrargus at cassie on Siren too, yes it sucks... You're just trying to make a legal point out of something that isn't. You don't enjoy the game that you're paying for, and you want to sue. The reasons you aren't enjoying have nothing to do with anything, I promise you that SE is not responsible for any of the players in this game.

You're just confusing what is fair or fun with what is legal, and that's my point... The only way to sue SE is to prove they are legally liable here for what players do, which opens a whole can of worms that would never hold up in court.

exactly what everyone has been trying to say. You pay for the ability to

1. log on the SE servers

and

2. play the game

thats it. There is no promise of enjoying the game, or enjoying what other ppl do. That is what we are trying to make you understand.

Maybe SE could make the game playable...instead of having a bunch of chinese gilfarmers running rampant, endgame NM a competition of whos got the best bot, and sea a mind numbing chore of getting drops so rare that calling the drop rate "pathetic" isnt doing justice to it.

Remember when the game was fun ?? I do, I was a little lv30 whm enjoying shit, because I had NEW shit to look forward to. Now, at lv75, its 3 hrs in dragon aery, 3 hrs in behemoths, 3 hrs in VoS...ITS REPETITIVE BORING SHIT.





By your fucked up example, I can retort with this:
You go to a car dealership, and you buy a car.
You sign the papers, and they give you the keys to a broken down piece of shit that doesnt work. You go "WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS SHIT". And they go "SORRY LOL YOU PAID FOR A CAR WE GIVE YOU CAR LOL".

You go to a computer store cause you see an ad for a cheap PC. You inquire about its specs and decide its a hawt deal. They swipe your CC like you swipe your CC at the auction house, and they give you a PC. You take it home, but it doesnt boot up. You look inside, and the mother board has a big hole in it, the processor is fried, and the ram is covered in shit. You bring it back, and the vendor goes "sorry, I cant do anything about this, you paid for a PC, and we gave you a PC", and to make matters worse, they go "no refund because you looked inside the system voiding the warranty".[/quote:b4383]


do you always spout stupid ass shit before you think. Go to a used car dealership and you will see on majority of cars that once it leaves the lot you take it ASSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS IIIISSSSSSSSSSSSS. you dumb fuck think before you make an example. Your computer example is wrong also. when you buy a pc from a store it is expected to be in USEABLE contition.

FFXI IS USEABLE, SE DOES NOT HAVE TO PROMISE YOU A FUN AND ENJOYABLE TIME WHILE YOU PLAY THEIR GAME. ALL THEY HAVE TO DO IS PROVIDE YOU A SERVICE WHICH IS LOGGING ON TO THEIR SERVERS TO PLAY THE FUCKING GAME. Fucking go back to KI and give your nonsense to them.

Remember when the game was fun ?? I do, I was a little lv30 whm enjoying shit, because I had NEW shit to look forward to. Now, at lv75, its 3 hrs in dragon aery, 3 hrs in behemoths, 3 hrs in VoS...ITS REPETITIVE BORING SHIT.

So its SE fault that you are now bored with the game? No where does it state that they have to continue to improve teh game for your enjoyment purposes. They are NOT REQUIRED to put out new content so you can continue to be entertained. If you are bored either find some new shit to do or leave. Before you post again fucking put together a real argument you fucking ass clown.