Prudence Torque

[Krandor]

If you need enmity gear for Fafnir, your tanks suck. I know when I'm going to steal hate and unless a tank fucks up it's not hard to control yourself. Personally, I keep af2 hat at all time but I swap my neck/hands/pants depending on if therenedy is on or if its a weak one etc.

They dont suck, I just prefer this setup of Safety + DMG at the same time.

Personally after watching/talking with Wafik about this I got a few of the BLMs in my LS to use Errant Body to MB on Fafnir. I think of myself as a pretty good tank but when Melees are doing back to back Skillchains and BLMs are pushing upwards for 3000 damage over the course of a minute or two (I don't know exact numbers, I filter all that shit) I'd rather they have a tad bit of enmity- so they don't get ripped apart -_-;

I'm a PLD btw (or at least I've only tanked Fafnir as PLD, we haven't claimed Fafnir since my NIN was high enough to really tank him).

[Xavier]

I have to believe theres an actual reason for things like evasion torque saying +7 evasion skill and elusive earrings saying +5 evasion.

[Havocdemon]

My HNM gear :

AF1 hat
Errant body
Zmitts
Snow/Tamas ring
Abyssal/Moldavite
Phantom Tathlum
Mahatma slops
Sorceror's Sabots
Obi/Rope depending on weather
Merciful Cape

I MB fine. I dont resist, and I have a nice chunk of -enmity.

I dont see a need to rid myself of 4enmity to add 2int for a hat, when the damage spike gained from it is hardly beneficial enough for the sacrifice.

Errant vs Weskit, personal choice, I am a -enm whore, only on slots that give me 2 stats (int and -enm, etc), not just a -enm item. I never end up Kiting KB off the PLD's from my nuke spam, I hardly get drawn in by turtle, and my numbers remain high.

BLM should be kiting KB. Gaiters ftw. Ends up being a much faster battle if you let the BLMs take hate and kite because it'll just bounce off of them from one to the other.

Faffy MB gear:
Demon +1/Republic Circlet
Genie Weskit
AF2 Gloves
Moldavite, Abyssal;;;
Prism Cape
AF2 Pants/Mahatma
Rostrum
Sorc Ring/Snow/Tamas
Phantom Tath
Ugg Pendant/Ele Troque
Obi/Penitent's

[aurik]

I've heard a few people claim that past 200 weapon skill, 1 skill = .9 accuracy. If that's true then this torque is a down grade for club WHMs or DRKs who have the means to get a Peacock charm. You attack doesn't matter all that much when you're using souleater Kraken club, but your accuracy sure does. 10>7*.9

+INT might help with GS WS damage, but so does +STR... so overall you're losing 3 str for 5 int... which probably results in close to if not the same damage. People overestimate the effect of non-str stat modifiers in WSes.

You do have to consider spreading drops out among many jobs... giving DRKs this over BLMs and WHMs makes a lot of sense if you have JoL on farm or near farm status. Both of those mage classes are already making out like bandits on with the newest priceless items in this game that you know they're going to sell for 250,000,000G when they quit. This point itself becomes null once AV is on farm status... but that's to be determined.

Torque is 7 accuracy 7 attack, even at 290+ weaponskill, recently confirmed on KI monk forums.

[Xavier]

REAL MEN USE RNG ON KB

[Demetrios]

RNG should get priority on Hope Torque!!

[Nny]

I'm mostly going on what NNY says on the warrior forums at KI. He's pretty respected there, so I'm assuming he isn't just talking out of his ass about it. He heard of this from some JP tests... who knows really. So Accuracy > Skill ?

Just to clear it up, Apple Pie (Really smart JP player that used to post on NA forums and shared a lot of JP test with us, including the WS formulas) posted about it a long time ago (Like 2 years by now) on FFXI Online forums.

And Aurik, I just checked the MNK forums for that test and what I came across was a test showing that one skill = less then 1 ACC. Although the test I just read (By Parzival in the FAQ thread) showed +7 skill to be +5 ACC, so the authenticity of that test is probably off.

Either way though, the only torque that I see that's actually really good is Faith Torque since it adds to DMG. PCC for TP (Since either the mob is low enough to a point where meat is better [EXP, Limbus, non-Xarc Dynamis], or since it's on a mob that you need all the ACC you can get) and Gorget for WS are generally better (Except possibly Justice Torque for SAM|DRK and Love Torque for THF). Ofcoarse, Torque=free, and only reason I have a PCC is because the market crashed and I'm waiting to sell it for twice the price I bought it for. 8)

[Sigmakan]

RNG should get priority on Hope Torque AND Faith Torque!!

Fixed. >.>;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

[aurik]

I'm mostly going on what NNY says on the warrior forums at KI. He's pretty respected there, so I'm assuming he isn't just talking out of his ass about it. He heard of this from some JP tests... who knows really. So Accuracy > Skill ?

Just to clear it up, Apple Pie (Really smart JP player that used to post on NA forums and shared a lot of JP test with us, including the WS formulas) posted about it a long time ago (Like 2 years by now) on FFXI Online forums.

And Aurik, I just checked the MNK forums for that test and what I came across was a test showing that one skill = less then 1 ACC. Although the test I just read (By Parzival in the FAQ thread) showed +7 skill to be +5 ACC, so the authenticity of that test is probably off.

Either way though, the only torque that I see that's actually really good is Faith Torque since it adds to DMG. PCC for TP (Since either the mob is low enough to a point where meat is better [EXP, Limbus, non-Xarc Dynamis], or since it's on a mob that you need all the ACC you can get) and Gorget for WS are generally better (Except possibly Justice Torque for SAM|DRK and Love Torque for THF). Ofcoarse, Torque=free, and only reason I have a PCC is because the market crashed and I'm waiting to sell it for twice the price I bought it for. 8)

Hmm, just a few days ago someone (I think it was Parzival) showed that with 292 skill, sniper ring +1 = torque for evasion check on mobs. I haven't read the forum yet today, maybe someone did more tests. If not, I'll quote the post here and we can hash it out. Maybe I misread.

BTW, apparently with max h2h (292) faith torque doesn't bump up your damage at all, because the extra 7 skill gets floor'd out. I <3 my +att items though, so I'd use it if I had it.

PCC down to 20m here, that's pretty remarkable, SH+1 is currently 30m.

[Futrid]

BTW, apparently with max h2h (292) faith torque doesn't bump up your damage at all, because the extra 7 skill gets floor'd out. I <3 my +att items though, so I'd use it if I had it.

It's pretty straight forward that the 7 skill on the torque is 7 atk when your equipment menu shows it, and although I havn't parsed my acc I'm fairly convinced that it's been bumped up since faith torque.

[aurik]

Parzival's original post:

Has anyone verified that 1 skill is equal to 1 acc? Or are we on the .9 kick? Or what? But haven't NINs (real NINs, not me) verified that evasion skill is better than evasion? I'm trying to test it right now but I'm kinda drunk and I don't have all the equipment I would like. Having to deal with DEX is fucking with me.

EDIT:

IT Aw'aerns in the Garden, with 292 H2H and 71 Dex they're neutral evasion when naked. Add an Emp pin, a Rajas Ring, Melee Gaiters, Sniper's +1 and Tiphia Sting (+9 acc +12 Dex) is still neutral evasion. Add a Shura and it's low evasion. Take off an Emp pin and it's neutral. Put the pin back on, take off the Shura, put on a Faith Torque: again low. Take off the Emp Pin and it's neutral again.

I can assume the Emp pin is only giving me 1 acc because we know that the game floors decimals in many instances, and DEX is one of these according to many people. As in, 71+12=83 DEX, but you only get the bonus for having 82, ie without another +1DEX from somewhere, the Emp Pin may well as be 2 DEX to get us to 82. And 2DEX=1ACC.

Which would mean the difference between 1 ACC and 1 weapon skill is less than 1 acc.

Also I inadvertently found out CP items relying on a zone being outside of your nation's control don't work in Sea, even though that would be...outside of your nation's control. Take away a Sniper +1 and Shura legs (-14 acc) and put on an O hat and a GTK Collar (+15 acc, right?) and it cons neutral even though the first combination made the mob con low eva.

Did everyone know this? Doesn't evasion skill work differently than flat evasion, then? Because it seems to be the concensus on the NIN forum that evasion skill is better but...weapon skill is better in that it adds attack, nothing regarding accuracy, and I don't see what would be equivalent in evasion.

Summary

Naked:
292 H2H skill, 71 dex = neutral

Partially Geared:
292 skill, 83 dex + 9 acc = neutral

Add Shura Haid.:
292 skill, 83 dex + 16 acc = low

Remove Emp:
292 skill, 80 dex + 16 acc = neutral

Add Emp and Torque; remove Shura:
299 skill, 83 dex + 9 acc = low

Remove Emp:
299 skill, 80 dex + 9 acc = neutral

If accuracy is an integer value and dex-based accuracy is something like floor(dex/2), this test proves that 1 skill = 1 acc and no less. However, those are unproven assumptions, which must be flawed if there is solid evidence that 1 skill is a fractional amount of accuracy.

So it doesn't exactly prove that 7 skill = 7 acc; it shows that 7 acc is within 3 dex (1.5 acc) of 7 skill; both the simplistic "7 acc" and the previously suggested value of "6.3 acc" falls within this range. It would be nice if someone could test it to a precision of 1 dex, using dex rings or something.

Is there any concrete data showing accuracy is or is not an integer? Or that the accuracy bonus due to dex is a simple function like floor(dex/2) or whether, like fSTR, it is a much more complicated calculation?

[aurik]

BTW, apparently with max h2h (292) faith torque doesn't bump up your damage at all, because the extra 7 skill gets floor'd out. I <3 my +att items though, so I'd use it if I had it.

It's pretty straight forward that the 7 skill on the torque is 7 atk when your equipment menu shows it, and although I havn't parsed my acc I'm fairly convinced that it's been bumped up since faith torque.

A clarification on what I meant, it doesn't bump up your base damage. The effect of 7 skill -> 7 attack will indeed bump up your overall damage by elevating your average PDIF result.

[Razz]

Good job on adding DRK to the poll 3 days later.

[Not Kuno]

Good job on adding DRK to the poll 3 days later.

Except this wasnt a 'who deserves this item the most' thread but rather 'out of these two jobs, who should get it'. We don't have any drk.

[aurik]

Maybe you should invite random drks from jeuno to lot

[Nirokun!]

(its gonna be mine anyway, dont have to think this hard guys :3)

[Razz]

Good job on adding DRK to the poll 3 days later.

Except this wasnt a 'who deserves this item the most' thread but rather 'out of these two jobs, who should get it'. We don't have any drk.

Then why bother putting whm? Its like me putting up a poll for Ridill with WAR and RNG being the two jobs in question. Saying that, prudence torque is just as useless for BLM as it is for whm...so...gg

[Not Kuno]

Good job on adding DRK to the poll 3 days later.

Except this wasnt a 'who deserves this item the most' thread but rather 'out of these two jobs, who should get it'. We don't have any drk.

Then why bother putting whm? Its like me putting up a poll for Ridill with WAR and RNG being the two jobs in question. Saying that, prudence torque is just as useless for BLM as it is for whm...so...gg

Cause which is better? club skill that doesnt matter or a bit of an improvment to nukes. Niro's just an item whore.

[aurik]

Cause which is better? club skill that doesnt matter or a bit of an improvment to nukes that doesn't matter.

Fixed.

[Nirokun!]

im an item whore? rofl

last time i checked, club skill was important to me, Healed/DD(WELL I MIGHT ADD) on the last ZM mission, and its not like im a whm that doesnt melee...

compare this to a torque that adds 7MAB/7MACC, 8mnd (2 more than ajari bead necklace!) and also adds 10-12 dmg (that i could make into 40~ish in the time it takes you to nuke once) to club swings...

if i tried to take that from you with Exclusive lotting rights i'd be an item whore

but an item that adds 7atk/7acc (all this being disputed by silly melees, club skill caps at 256 [higher? i think its 256] for whm, i dont reach this 290 something cap you mnks have lol) to any melee damage is awesome, but you're acting like i should never, and will never again, melee, so i should be denied this torque. This is the best thing i can get to TP up with, and gorget for WS. Its the best INT neckpiece you can get, a whopping 2 int more than you have access to on philomanth stole, which you use situationally... before 50% mp, and only if the mob isnt one of the ones that resist...

Who really is the item whore here? (this is fun lol, more will drop, it doesnt matter, but i want the first one because you made this thread~ :D)