Women, get all the lovin you can now

[Hirronimus]

I heard Nikkei was thrown down the stairs few times to prevent pregnancy.

[joft]

I want a straw dog

[edgarfigaro]

nm

[Erebus]

This law will do nothing.

Women who don't want a child will either sell the baby, give to adoption, pay for a now illegal and expensive procedure which will make alot of shady people even richer or grab a hanger out the closet and do it themselves.

Just like any law, there is always point where you decide if it's something you can do or something you can't do. I guarantee this won't stop any woman from doing something she feels she has to do.

[Remembrance]

Just make everyone get all their semen removed and Voila NO MORE FUCKING PROBLEMS >)

You don't consider the extinction of the human race a problem?

Also, how do you remove semen? lol

With a straw bitch!

or a knife.. :D

[Eternus]

You know they could drive to the closest border and do it in another state. Did that occur to anyone? But that would be too much of a inconvenience. Yes this could be the start of a trend and it makes pro-choice people worried.

[Quicklet]

You can come up with big words like "Ethics" and "Morality" but in the end they are just feelings.

To equate morality to emotional feelings is to deny any logic or pragmatism that's involved in any moral judgment. It's much easier to make an argument that abortion is immoral than it is to make the argument that it should be illegal. In the one case, you're making a statement about what should or should not be done. In the other, you're trying to argue whether or not the freedom to do it should be available.

As far as the debate about its legality goes, morality certainly plays a role in the discussion but by no means is the central battlefield between the two sides. It has become much more of a Constitutional interpretation issue, and the real debate is if it's Constitutionally protected or if it should be decided on a state by state basis.

[Sparky]

It has become much more of a Constitutional interpretation issue, and the real debate is if it's Constitutionally protected or if it should be decided on a state by state basis.

I agree with you here. i think most of us who have actually read Roe vs. Wade (Which i have) can agree that this is bad law. Abortion should be handled state to state, and not by the Supreme Court. Everyone is freaking out that abortion is going to be made illegal. That is a possibility unfortunately that probably wont happen anytime soon. More than likely the Supreme Court will overturn Roe vs. Wade and make abortion a state issue meaning that we (Americans) will vote to make it illegal or legal. If you want an abortion all u will have to do is go to a state where it is legal (prolly states like California, Hawaii, New York etc) Simular to gay marriage.

[Elcura]

It has become much more of a Constitutional interpretation issue, and the real debate is if it's Constitutionally protected or if it should be decided on a state by state basis.

I agree with you here. i think most of us who have actually read Roe vs. Wade (Which i have) can agree that this is bad law. Abortion should be handled state to state, and not by the Supreme Court. Everyone is freaking out that abortion is going to be made illegal. That is a possibility unfortunately that probably wont happen anytime soon. More than likely the Supreme Court will overturn Roe vs. Wade and make abortion a state issue meaning that we (Americans) will vote to make it illegal or legal. If you want an abortion all u will have to do is go to a state where it is legal (prolly states like California, Hawaii, New York etc) Simular to gay marriage.

That kinda doesn't change anything though does it? Seems like if they wanted to make abortion illegal they'd do it across the US...

[Sekkite]

It has become much more of a Constitutional interpretation issue, and the real debate is if it's Constitutionally protected or if it should be decided on a state by state basis.

I agree with you here. i think most of us who have actually read Roe vs. Wade (Which i have) can agree that this is bad law. Abortion should be handled state to state, and not by the Supreme Court. Everyone is freaking out that abortion is going to be made illegal. That is a possibility unfortunately that probably wont happen anytime soon. More than likely the Supreme Court will overturn Roe vs. Wade and make abortion a state issue meaning that we (Americans) will vote to make it illegal or legal. If you want an abortion all u will have to do is go to a state where it is legal (prolly states like California, Hawaii, New York etc) Simular to gay marriage.

That kinda doesn't change anything though does it? Seems like if they wanted to make abortion illegal they'd do it across the US...

But do they have the legal authority to do this (please don't make a comment about how the decisions Bush makes goes beyond legal authority)?

[rahvin]

lol is the quote button broken?

[Lasitha]

I'm a woman, and I don't think differently. I've had pregnancy scares myself, but there's no way that I could abort a baby. JUST BASED ON MY PERSONAL FEELINGS - a baby is a baby from the moment it has a heartbeat. How do we define if a human out of the womb is alive? We check for a pulse. No pulse, no life.

Technically, there is no pulse till the heart develops... so for the first few weeks, in your definition of life, the baby is not alive.

Condoms have a 3% failure rate. That's what it reads in the back of the packet, and you know by health regulations, it cannot be a lie.

Oh, and who in their right mind would believe that in the year when the lightbulb was invented there were no abortions? It's been around for hundreds of years.

Are you dense???? Did i SAY there were no abortions that year? I wasn't even talking about THAT year. GG read something please.

Maybe you are dense. Or need reading lessons. It is implicit in my post that even then abortion has happened and nothing has stopped it until now. Since there is no valid reason to why it should not be an open choice for the mother. Did I say "OMG you didn't know there was abortion in that year?"?. I basically meant that the baby who invented light bulb might have been aborted or not and we still got light. Not only 1 intelligent person is born every generation.

Surely maybe not of the talent of Mozart or the mind power of Einstein, but the light bulb wasn't exactly the atom bomb or Symphony 41, in C Major. K551.

Just because your embedded morals dictate you and your family that abortion is wrong it doesn't mean your opinion is necessarily right.

Why won't anyone understand this? Debating whether it is right or not is a matter of opinion but the choice should remain to the parents, or in majority of UNPLANNED births, up the mother alone.

Get one thing, saying that you may have killed the next great scientist or the next serial killer IS TOO HYPOTHETHICAL. The odds are too great to consider it a possibility, it's not 1 in 1,000, hell even 1 in 100,000, it's 1 in 1,000,000+ possibility. That is not a solid argument.

Anecdotes do not prove points.
http://www.familycare.org/network/im...nl_05-3_05.jpg <--- Outside Mexico Cities and other important cities.
http://www.banderasnews.com/0506/images/benefits.jpg <-- 20% of population in Mexico City (Only the poorest of the poor are 20% and then it percentages vary per income but basically 80% mexican people are poor).
http://www.familycare.org/network/images/m06/tara3.jpg <-- more kids that couldn't be aborted because of ideas like yours.

This is reality, this is my reason to say abortion should be legal. Do you not feel pity for the children? 99% of the children like the ones in the picture will die the same way.

Why suffer so much because the mother had no idea what a condom was? Why suffer because her mother was raped? Why suffer because the mother couldn't get to the emergency pill in time or was faced with classist bastards who made her wait too long?

Why suffer because the mother had no right to abort them? Because Mexico is dominated by males and maybe her husband didn't want to use protection against her will. WHY?

[thestalkmore]

Pro-Choice

For every action, there is a Reaction.

The baby is the innocent silent victim here. They didnt chose this life, you gave it to them , weather it be planned or unplanned, now it's your job to make that baby feel safe and happy, even if you arent.

Mothers that are stupid enough to have a baby they didn't want cannot or will not do this 99% of the time. Don't have so much idealistic faith in a species that is so fucking stupid.

(plus there's the fact that sentencing someone to death costs so much more than sentencing them to life without parole)

are you serious?

[edgarfigaro]

It has become much more of a Constitutional interpretation issue, and the real debate is if it's Constitutionally protected or if it should be decided on a state by state basis.

I agree with you here. i think most of us who have actually read Roe vs. Wade (Which i have) can agree that this is bad law. Abortion should be handled state to state, and not by the Supreme Court. Everyone is freaking out that abortion is going to be made illegal. That is a possibility unfortunately that probably wont happen anytime soon. More than likely the Supreme Court will overturn Roe vs. Wade and make abortion a state issue meaning that we (Americans) will vote to make it illegal or legal. If you want an abortion all u will have to do is go to a state where it is legal (prolly states like California, Hawaii, New York etc) Simular to gay marriage.

except if a state outlaws abortion, they can also define life as starting at conception and use that definition to prevent pregant women from leaving the state. It's a whole can of worms that shouldn't be opened, plus I still believe the right to privacy is tantamount, especially with something that isn't a danger to society.

I love how the "conservative" party is trying to increase the government's role in our personal lives...why can't the libertarians come into power.

[Sparky]

except if a state outlaws abortion, they can also define life as starting at conception and use that definition to prevent pregant women from leaving the state. It's a whole can of worms that shouldn't be opened, plus I still believe the right to privacy is tantamount, especially with something that isn't a danger to society.

States cant prevent citizens from interstate commerce so i dont think legally a state could do what u think they can do.

I love how the "conservative" party is trying to increase the government's role in our personal lives...why can't the libertarians come into power.

Actually that is an incorrect statement. Conservatives are for smaller government and less role in our personal lives. I.E. Why most Conservatives want to make Abortion a State issue or in other words the peoples decision. When the Supreme Court (a liberal court at the time) rendered their decision in Roe v Wade they took the decision away from the people thus giving the governement more power. I hope that clarifies it for yah

[Ricardon]

@ Lasitha
Are you fucking seriously going to show me a picture of some poor children with an arrow pointing at the picture and say "more kids that couldnt be aborted..." and expect that is going to win people over to your train of thought? WTF is wrong with you? I suspect that it was just a really...really bad choice in the way you presented your train of thought, but it's still rather offensive.

There is a lot of grey area for me personally on the issue. I can find myself on either side of the fence depending upon the circumstances. People make very good arguments both for abortion and against.

Your argument, and showing poor kids as a reason for legalized abortion fucking fails in every sense of the word!

[Lasitha]

You must be really dense, the reason why I said it should be allowed is because people will end up living like that. Get the topic, there's nothing wrong with me, there's something wrong with you thinking people should have children so they live like that.

I am not trying to win people to my side, I could care less, I'll still think the same. This is just to further explain what I've been trying to explain since page 6. It's not all peachy outside of USA and Europe. Get it? That's the harsh reality, that's how 80% of the people in my country live and which is why I am all for abortion. Don't bring a kid into the world if they are going to have such a shitty life.

Explain to me why is the fact that a child going to have a shitty life not reason enough to not be brought into this world? If they are going to have to stand this, they are better off going straight to heaven if you believe in one.

[rahvin]

Pro-Choice

For every action, there is a Reaction.

The baby is the innocent silent victim here. They didnt chose this life, you gave it to them , weather it be planned or unplanned, now it's your job to make that baby feel safe and happy, even if you arent.

Mothers that are stupid enough to have a baby they didn't want cannot or will not do this 99% of the time. Don't have so much idealistic faith in a species that is so fucking stupid.

(plus there's the fact that sentencing someone to death costs so much more than sentencing them to life without parole)

are you serious?

Yes he is serious, due to the fact that when you are placed on death row you are "most" times put in a max security prison, instead of medium or low for life without parole. Obviously not all cases are like that but to be on death row you did a pretty awful crime. Not to mention ppl put on death row really never actually get executed, but rather die in their cell of old age. some numbers for ya

about 2 years ago when i took my prison course, it cost upwards of about 75 thousand/year for an inmate in deathrow and 30-40 thousand/year for standard prisoning. that price coupled with the fact that majority of the deathrow inmates will not be executed, due to appeals, that is why it costs more.

if we put drug offenders in an effective rehabilitation program and get them out of the prison, we would save 6 Billion dollars a year on the national budget.

Before you fuckers flame me, you better have a degree in criminal justice before you say im wrong, bc i do. Also i know that was 2 years ago and number could have changed. Also i understand that case by case, state by state, prison by prison the numbers change, those where averages.

[Sparky]

Yes he is serious, due to the fact that when you are placed on death row you are "most" times put in a max security prison, instead of medium or low for life without parole. Obviously not all cases are like that but to be on death row you did a pretty awful crime. Not to mention ppl put on death row really never actually get executed, but rather die in their cell of old age. some numbers for ya

about 2 years ago when i took my prison course, it cost upwards of about 75 thousand/year for an inmate in deathrow and 30-40 thousand/year for standard prisoning. that price coupled with the fact that majority of the deathrow inmates will not be executed, due to appeals, that is why it costs more.

if we put drug offenders in an effective rehabilitation program and get them out of the prison, we would save 6 Billion dollars a year on the national budget.

Before you fuckers flame me, you better have a degree in criminal justice before you say im wrong, bc i do. Also i know that was 2 years ago and number could have changed. Also i understand that case by case, state by state, prison by prison the numbers change, those where averages.

The problem is finding a program that can reliablly rehabilitate 99% of those drug offenders. Up until now i dont think that there is one yet.

Also while we would save X billion dollars you know we would never see a dime of that money in tax cuts ^-^. The Government is the 800lb 11yr old that is always "Starving" because he "Hasnt eaten anything all day"

[Parshias]

So should we make abortions mandatory for poor families? Having no life isn't necessarily better than having a shitty one. You don't even know that the child's life will be shitty, even if their family is incredibly poor. Poor people can do good things too, you know. I'm not talking about some poor kid growing up to be the next President. I'm talking about some poor kid who grows up and has a positive effect on someone. He doesn't need to grow up to be Superman, just do something good.

Saying "their life will be crap, lol abort plz" is stupid. How do you know their life will be crappy? Maybe that person will persevere and get himself out of the cycle of poverty? I'm not saying he's gonna become rich, but maybe this child of poor people will get a halfway-decent job, and start his own family. Humanity's end is the pursuit of happiness, in whatever form it might take. Hard to pursue happiness when some guy decides that your life is worthless before it begins and ends it for you.