Women, get all the lovin you can now

[Brennon]

Touchy subject. Ultimately, there has to be a choice involved somewhere, but where should the line be drawn. When is it *ok* for a mother to choose to terminate a new life, and where is it not ok?

Personally, I think that line should be drawn at the point when the child reaches 18 years old. Before that, its fair game.

[Lylie]

What if the woman didn't want to have a baby?

BITCH STOP FUCKIN'! PUT THE DICK DOWN!

Remember you have to be two to have sex (except if you are gay). So no sex for her, no sex for you (except if you soro )

[riggy]

Personally, I feel that if a woman were to get pregnant, that they should be the one who is able to decide what they want or need to do, since they would be the one who would be carrying the child if they chose to have it. I don't really think that the man in the relationship or sex should be able to decide for her either, and I don't think that them saying that they should have a say in the matter because it would be their own offspring is reasonable either, because it would be the woman caring for the child, not the man. If a woman wanted to have the child, the guy shouldn't be able to stop her from having it, and if she didn't want to have the child, the guy shouldn't be able to make her have it.

To the people saying something along the lines of that it was her own fault for getting pregnant, so she has to take responsibility and have the child as punishment sort of, don't you think that that is sort of terrible? To the parents, a child should bring happiness or some sort of joy into their lives, a child shouldn't be a punishment.

It's late... no clue what I am really saying, will check tomorrow I suppose.

Though I agree with your 2nd paragraph, ysukie, I don't with the 1st entirely. To say that it is completely a woman's choice when it comes to an abortion is pretty screwed up. I'll take what Lylie said a few posts down. "It takes 2 to have sex" to sum it up. It takes 2 people to make a decision. If I impregnated a girl and I had no say in the matter of aborting or keeping, I'd be pretty pissed off. Just as much as she would if the government gave her no say in the matter. People who want a concrete constitutional stance on abortion; however, will go wanting.

I really don't think a distinct line can be drawn on abortion. There are so many "what/ifs" it's just ridiculous. But thats life Rape, putting the mother in danger, etc IMO should be given the choice to abort because she didnt have the choice/will die from the baby. But as far as a line in the sand...I pray it will never happen, and I basically know it won't because I think this affects enough people where they won't let it happen.

[Not Kuno]

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse....egressive1.gif

I'm against abortion, but for killing babies

[Lasitha]

This argument always seems to pop here and there.

The main part of it being "how can a woman be so cruel to terminate the life she is carrying inside her?". What most people don't see is that the problem is not having or not a child. It's the life that child will have. What happens when a poor woman is raped and left pregnant?

Should she have the baby because it would be a sin not to? Or should it be better to abort and not make the child suffer for the rest of it's life?

The odds of a poor child to climb out of poverty are close to none.

[joft]

http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/6...stocyst0ro.jpg

[Elcura]

I'd say a person os really a person when s/he has their own free will. Call it a flawed PoV but that's what I believe, something without free will or a mind of it's own isn't really alive.

I've seen too many teenage pregnancies and mothers who can't take care of their children so say that pro-life is a good thing. Children who are adopted often have hard lives that end up making them the scum of your society. If you can't raise a child to have a good life and a good future, then don't do it.

[joft]

the concept of "personhood" isn't logically based on emperical observation, and it's different for everyone. personhood is a cognitive construct with evolutionary usefulness, it's a module innate in our brains, like facial recognition and tit-for-tat social morality. it's why so many people become attached to their pets while not giving a thought to all the animals that have died to supply them with various foods and luxuries.

if you want to do this scientifically, it is definitely not clear at all when to draw the line. if a blastocyst is a person, that's pretty weird because sometimes they split apart and become two or more people. and plenty of times they are "aborted" naturally by the female's reproductive system. if you try to base your judgment of when to draw the line on anything other than arbitrary "this much time has passed" then there will always be plenty of exceptions which blur your line completely. and even with just time, if you set it at one day, it may not be possible to pinpoint the exact day it was conceived, and what if she waits till the last minute, or something comes up on the day before and she can't get it done, could it be extended one day? if it can be extended one day, why not two, three? etc. because the fetus hasn't changed much in those few days. this becomes even more ridiculous if your argument is based on having a soul, because when does the fetus become "ensouled?" if it's at the moment of conception that's pretty weird like I said, homozygotic twins are two bodies with the same soul?

you can't fit neat little judicial boxes around life. what about conjoined twins, what about the cases where they will both die unless you separate them but if you separate then one will definitely die? what about if one of them is just an arm, shoulder, and head? what about fetuses who are deformed?

would you reason about the issue differently if you lived in a culture where the family/friends were obligated to give expensive gifts to the newborn child, even if it was a miscarriage?

shit i have to go to class, this post should be like 5x longer but i can't now

[joft]

I'd say a person os really a person when s/he has their own free will. Call it a flawed PoV but that's what I believe, something without free will or a mind of it's own isn't really alive.

holy shit, HOLY shit, lol. you just opened a can of... well, define free will. give evidence for the existence of this free will. specify how to determine whether or not someone has free will. (here's a hint: you won't live long enough to get past step 1, and that's fine because steps 2 and 3 are impossible)

[Aldur]

How ironic. People who weren't aborted waxing poetic about abortion and how its ok to have 'em. If the mother was raped or the child presents a threat to the life of the mother I'm all for abortion. If not then I'm still pro-choice to this extent: You can choose to have sex or not.

[Nirokun!]

STRAIGHT PEOPLE NEED TO BE EDUCATED

[Lordwafik]

For every action, there is a Reaction.

The act of sex is the action, unprotected sex is the action, conception is the reaction.

If the woman had sex, and wasnt forced (i dont count stupid emo girls with no self esteem, forced into sex), I dont see why they dont need to live with their reaction. It was their choice to have sex, now deal with the baby.

The baby is the innocent silent victim here. They didnt chose this life, you gave it to them , weather it be planned or unplanned, now it's your job to make that baby feel safe and happy, even if you arent.

[Avvesione]

For every action, there is a Reaction.

The act of sex is the action, unprotected sex is the action, conception is the reaction.

If the woman had sex, and wasnt forced (i dont count stupid emo girls with no self esteem, forced into sex), I dont see why they dont need to live with their reaction. It was their choice to have sex, now deal with the baby.

The baby is the innocent silent victim here. They didnt chose this life, you gave it to them , weather it be planned or unplanned, now it's your job to make that baby feel safe and happy, even if you arent.

People in Australia are smart. That's pretty much my stance on this issue.

[rahvin]

No heart, no brain, no nervous system, no bloodvessels, no bones


basically just a lump of cells which ammount to nothing more than a hair folicle, is not a child. Therefore, it is ok to abort it at that time. I think after 2 months it starts to develop these things, and then it is not moral to abort it.

[Koyangi]

I swear to god I'm not making this up. Hitler's mother considered aborting him while he was in her womb, but she nigged on that choice, look what happened!

[Lordwafik]

Hitler's mother didnt fail on weather or not to abort him, she failed on his upbringing, causing him to have low self esteem and taking it out the way he did (whee gaschambers). Two totally different situations.

[Lockecole]

Some people are talking about adoption, but do you know how it is to have a new person in your body for 9 months? Baby isn't something you create in 1 day by adding sugar to water. It takes 9 months, its sometimes painfull, the woman changes alot while this time, mentally AND physically. A baby isn't something you just give away to some random people and get over it.

I swear, you men are all asshole. All you do is play with your penis 5min and let the woman do all the job for 9 months. Then, come to teach you what to do with your body.

Get this straight. You're carrying ANOTHER person in your body. This isn't your fucking liver....or one of your kidneys, so stop treating it like that. Nothing you say or do will change that. I'm sick of the excuse that a woman makes that it's her body. It's not her body, its her baby's body thats being torn apart, that's being destroyed. Her baby's future that will never be, her baby who will never see the light of day. When an abortion starts to effect who you are as a person, directly, then this can be a matter of pro-choice on the behalf of a woman's body. (Note: I'm aware in cases that it can effect the health of the mother in anyway, abortion is definately a viable and the ONLY choice in keeping the mother safe.)

What if the woman didn't want to have a baby?

What if the woman is actually poor, and her child is going to have a real bad life, have some diseases because she can't pay for the medicines, doctors and such?

What if the doctors know for sure the child is retarded (don't know the english name for this, trysomy?) and the woman prefer to not have the child, and avoid him to have a f'ing painful life?

Who gives you or anyone the right to assume what type of life a person will have, or should have? That someone will have a horrible life, so you should "rid" them of that pain, by terminating their lives before they ever have a chance of living it? Some of the most amazing people have been born under the least optimal circumstances. To label a childs life as not worthy of being lived is cruel beyond anything else I can imagine.

Or should it be better to abort and not make the child suffer for the rest of it's life?

The odds of a poor child to climb out of poverty are close to none.

I'm glad there was noone around to deem my impending life as being too painful. That my "odds of survival" weren't high enough, so I should just be put to death before I had a chance. What about you Lasitha? Would you want someone to make that decision for you?

Life is full of responsibilites. Fess up to them, because this will be the biggest choice in your life, wether or not any of you want to admit it. If you wanna turn your back on your child, then the trashcans right there...but remember you will have to live with it.

[Meropi]

Making this choice is the hardest thing a woman will ever have to face. It is not something that can be taken lightly, in any sense of the word. Choosing to have a baby means accepting that your body, your mind, your spirit, and your LIFE will be forever changed. Choosing NOT to have a baby means accepting that you are terminating a life. You have to live with that forever.

Many of you are saying that if a woman is stupid enough to have sex, then she should be responsible for her actions. Well, guess what. Two people have to be there for the sex to take place. How many men are big enough to take responsibilty for that type of mistake? I can tell you, it's not many. In fact, it's damn few. Ironically, over half of you on this board advocatoing pro-life are probably men who would flip the fuck out if you got a girl pregnant. Are you prepared for 9 months of medical bills, followed by potentially 20+ years of child care costs (or even the emotional stress of adoption procedures?). Chances are, most of us aren't.

Also, NO form of contraception is 100% effective. The pill, condoms, IUDs, and spermicides can all fail. Even a vasectomy can be done incorrectly and lead to an unplanned pregnancy. My mother got pregnant with me while on the Pill. My cousin's wife did as well (well, not with me, obviously). I've personally had a condom break on more than one occaision.

I am personally Pro-choice. Yes, I see a pregnancy as a new life, but I also see it as something that needs to be carefully considered. Can you guarantee that this child will have a good life and be cared for? Can you guarantee that this child will not end up shuffled around foster care or be abandoned? Are you willing to raise this child? Are you CAPABLE of raising this child? Let's not forget how many millions of children around the world are starving right now because they were born into poverty and third world conditions. How many millions of children die each year because they cannot be fed, vaccinated, or receive basic medical attention? How many of these children are born in the good ole USA? (the number would probably astonish you).

[GraveRobberX]

/derail

CUTE: http://www.metacafe.com/watch/72008/babies_babies/

(Awwwwwwwwwwwww)

/end derail

Back to topic, I'm for abortion, A woman should have the right to choose

As I learned from a young age theres always 2 sides to a story/argument/whatever

Theres always the pro's and con's for every situation

I believe; the fetus in the mothers womb is an orgnanism (multi-celled of course) and it will be that until it takes its first breath in the world

When it gasps for it's first breath that baby has entered and the clock has started ticking down for it's natural life

Sooner or later this will become a religious/politcal issue thread revolving around abortion

Just to let you know the hipocracy of people:

George W.(Dub-Yah) Bush

When he was the Governor of Texas (Yeee-Haw) he had 300 people (convicts) sent to the Electric Chair for crimes that they committed (just or unjust as they can be) (he had the power to save them and excuse them from death)

But he is for Pro-Life and against the death of fetus (an organism) that has yet to gain life

Contradiction I think so

There are people who are Pro-Life but Pro-Death Penalty and vice a versa

Life has it's mistakes, and theres always shortcuts/erasers to get out of situations, why can't abortion be one of them also

I'll say this in such a retarded way and get flamed for it:

"If a pencil can have an eraser, so you can correct any of your mistakes that you make, why can't a woman have an abortion"

Befor you go AWOL and go hey that organism (fetus) is alive, if you are a female and believe that, then you will be cautious at having a baby and will take precautions

STOP fucking thinking what is best for a woman, what she has to go thru; unless you yourself are one

Life is and always will be about CHOICES[/b]

[GraveRobberX]

Can you guarantee that this child will have a good life and be cared for? Can you guarantee that this child will not end up shuffled around foster care or be abandoned? Are you willing to raise this child? Are you CAPABLE of raising this child? Let's not forget how many millions of children around the world are starving right now because they were born into poverty and third world conditions. How many millions of children die each year because they cannot be fed, vaccinated, or receive basic medical attention? How many of these children are born in the good ole USA? (the number would probably astonish you).

Well this is an answer to this (I Think) if abortion is made illegal watch those percentages climb way Higher than they are

http://www.americanadoptions.com/pregna ... tion_stats