Women, get all the lovin you can now

[merper]

You people are way too fatalistic.

[Sparky]

I am glad that Stevie Wonder, Ray Charles, and Beethovens parents didnt have the same opinion and beliefs you do. Just because a child might be imperfect doesnt mean that we can say that they cant contribute to society.

Ray Charles wasn't born blind, Beethoven wasn't born deaf. Nobody is suggesting we should've taken a shotgun to Ray Charles face when he started to lose his vision.

I looked up Stevie Wonder cause I didn't know, he lost his eyes by being born prematurely and "premature development of his eye, causing the blood vessels to detach from the retina". I think Stevie Wonder might be the best example for your case.

But I think he meant more like extreme retardation or extreme disability like lack of limbs as a cause for abortion.

I guess i read into his rant differently. I was thinking he was referencing pre birth screenings. I.E. where doctors can tell u the problems your kid can have. Regardless of my poor choice of examples i stil believe the point is made. I dont see justification in killing a baby because there is a chance raising them might be difficult. That path leads to the Dark side.

[DeusNoctis]

Pro-RU-486 Pill, Anti-Abortion Operation.

I doubt many of you have seen pictures of what the corpse of an undeveloped baby looks like, hence my stance on this.

RU-486 has caused a total of 4 deaths since 1996, whereas there are an estimated 200 deaths per year via the Abortion Operation.

RU-486 is also cheaper and avoids the "killing of the baby" arguement seeing as you must take the pill within 24(48?) hours after having sex.

Meh.

[Alleya]

Personally, first trimester,fine. Second trimester, you're indecisive and you should consider going through with it and put the baby up for adoption (there are waiting lists miles long to adopt babies) if you have no health concearns. Third trimester, unless there's major health risks, no. Partial birth, never, unless the mother is in mortal danger and driving a spike through the baby's skull and vaccuming out its brains is going to help somehow.

[rahvin]

2 years ago when i was getting ready to graduate college, i took a course in my criminal justice studies on sex and crime. One of the topics which came up was prostitution and how it has changed over the years. some time around the 20's prostitution was a flourishing business practice. One group of ppl emerged stating their opinions on a woman giving up her body for money as "immoral" and incorrect. After many years of arguing (much like this abortion issue), prostitution was made illegal. It went into the shadows, so to speak, and slowly decayed into what it is today. Back then prostitutes where clean and took very good care of their bodies. Now, they are disease ridden vessels, who do drugs on top of everything else. Instead of being in buildings behind closed doors, they are out on the streets performing their acts in cars, alleys, hotel rooms you name it. It is extremely unsafe for the woman, where as if it was in a controlled envirnment like in the past, they where relativly more safe.

For those of you not smart enough to understand my point, ill say it for you. If we deem that abortion is "immoral" and "incorrect", it will go underground. Women will still have abortions, but it will happen in less clean and safe environments. they will resort to doing it themselves, or by someone other than a practicing doctor. Just like prostitution, abortion no matter which way you are looking at it is not hurting you. It does not affect you in a negative way. All the arguments i seem to hear is "its horrible for the unborn child", not anything on how it affects your life. Prostitution did not hurt anyone in the past. People saw it as immoral in their eyes and forced their opinions on other ppl. People really need to stop forcing opinions on society becuase they feel it is wrong. Until i see someone show me a valid response on how one mother aborting a child is affecting their life in a negative way, ill stick to my opinion of stay out of others ppl's business. Btw saying that you could be aborting the next Einstein or Hitler really are silly excuses and hold no merit.

Like i said before until the mass of cells growing inside the mothers body, develop a brain, nervous system, heart, liver, kidneys and blood vessels, i do not see a bunch of cells as a living person. Sorry if my example might be a little hard to follow, but the 2 fit if you look at them. Id rather have a government run institution to safely preform abortions, than an undergroud clinic. Again until someone provides concrete examples of how a mother across the country aborting a 1 month old mass of cells is hurting their livelyhood, my opinion still stands that you pro-lifers need to mind your own business.

Oh and to the clown who said california isnt anywhere close to being over crowded, look around you. It is past the point of being crowded.

one more thing lol, for those of you racing to find examples, someone getting drunk and getting in a car and driving is a threat to your safety. Someone committing murder is a threat to your livelyhood, someone doing drugs then operating a motor vehicle is a threat to your safety. i dont wanna see those examples. I want to hear how aborting a child is a DIRECT impact on your life, and why it is any of your business (protecting an unborn child is overused because we can debate on the "rights" of an unborn child for hours, find another example).

[Parshias]

Not allowing abortion contributes to nature killing us faster, and I'd like my children and blood line to live as long as it can.

Bullshit, more people is not going to horribly fuck us all in the ass with polution. Do you know what will really save us from our own damn mistakes? Not abortion. I call it getting our shit together and creating systems to decrease pollution and un-fuck up our world. For all we know, abortion has killed the person who will design these helpful systems.

Yes, the man is just as responsible for the pregnancy as the woman is. Equally responsible. But guess what? That doesn't make it a non-issue. Many people have said that contraceptions are not 100% effective. There is one contraceptive that is: chastity. Don't want a baby? Don't have sex. Sex is designed to create that life, don't come bitching when your actions fulfill their original purpose. This goes for you too, guys.

Abortion is ok because the fetus can't form complex thoughts? neither can newborns. I'll bet you all the newborn will be thinking is, "Food is good, Pain is bad, I poo a lot." By your logic it should be completely ok to kill all the newborns in a hospital, its not like they can form complex thought or anything.

Here's food for thought: a doctor can perform an abortion with no hassles, yet is a murderer kills a pregnant mother, he is charged with the murder of two lives. Something doesn't add up here.

[Sparky]

Again until someone provides concrete examples of how a mother across the country aborting a 1 month old mass of cells is hurting their livelyhood, my opinion still stands that you pro-lifers need to mind your own business.

I will add to this. Until someone provides concrete examples of how a murder accross the county murdering a 10 yr old mass of cells is hurting their livelyhood, My opinion still stands that you pro-lifers need to mind your own business.
While u have some nice arguments and comparisons this specfic one completely fails and cant hold any water.

[Lasitha]

Not allowing abortion contributes to nature killing us faster, and I'd like my children and blood line to live as long as it can.

Bullshit, more people is not going to horribly fuck us all in the ass with polution. Do you know what will really save us from our own damn mistakes? Not abortion. I call it getting our shit together and creating systems to decrease pollution and un-fuck up our world. For all we know, abortion has killed the person who will design these helpful systems.

Yes, the man is just as responsible for the pregnancy as the woman is. Equally responsible. But guess what? That doesn't make it a non-issue. Many people have said that contraceptions are not 100% effective. There is one contraceptive that is: chastity. Don't want a baby? Don't have sex. Sex is designed to create that life, don't come bitching when your actions fulfill their original purpose. This goes for you too, guys.

Abortion is ok because the fetus can't form complex thoughts? neither can newborns. I'll bet you all the newborn will be thinking is, "Food is good, Pain is bad, I poo a lot." By your logic it should be completely ok to kill all the newborns in a hospital, its not like they can form complex thought or anything.

Here's food for thought: a doctor can perform an abortion with no hassles, yet is a murderer kills a pregnant mother, he is charged with the murder of two lives. Something doesn't add up here.

I never said a fetus can't think, though science hasn't been able to prove they do, however I do NOT see that as a reason to abort. I already specified the reasons why I believe abortion is right and should be allowed. Go back to page 8, I made a summary of it.

I never said abortion is right because it's less people to deal with.

Secondly, it's stupid to be as hypothetical as to say that you may have aborted the next Einstein, or the next Bach. Because the odds of that being true are the same odds of having aborted the next serial killer, the next Hitler, the next Franco, the next dictator.

Start reading, at least my posts. My reason to say abortion is right is not that our world is dying. People deserve the right to abort, but with that right comes also the obligation to protect yourself if you don't wish for a child.

[Remembrance]

Yeah fuck you, california isn't crowded, tons and tons of UNUSED fields (big fuck you to the people that say its used for food ect ect, not talking about those fields)

Something just came to mind.

Ok, since Las' arguement is now on the topic of population control how bout this.

If we ban abortion, then women will start doing back alley abortion, and killing both themselves AND the baby, 2 problems fixed in one fucking bang, glorious. A stupid slut and an unwanted child both gone.

Yeah, there are 3 year long adoption lines, people will pay you for your kids. I can understand not wanting them, give them the fuck away for money? Somebody else is not as much a fuckup as you and appriciates human life a lil bit.

[edgarfigaro]

Pro-RU-486 Pill, Anti-Abortion Operation.

I doubt many of you have seen pictures of what the corpse of an undeveloped baby looks like, hence my stance on this.

RU-486 has caused a total of 4 deaths since 1996, whereas there are an estimated 200 deaths per year via the Abortion Operation.

RU-486 is also cheaper and avoids the "killing of the baby" arguement seeing as you must take the pill within 24(48?) hours after having sex.

Meh.

If you're going to lecture people, you should get your facts straight >.>

RU-486 ("the abortion pill") is 92% effective in ending pregencies through 7 weeks.

The Morning-after pill, which is what you are referring to, is effective usually for 72 hours (3 days).

[BRP]

I think every woman should get a 'freebie'. This freebie is not spent when the woman is raped or such. However, she can only have one abortion in her entire life. But, I also believe people who can't name all the states and more than 8 presidents should have their reproductive organs removed at age 15. Also idiots.

[Lasitha]

Yeah fuck you, california isn't crowded, tons and tons of UNUSED fields (big fuck you to the people that say its used for food ect ect, not talking about those fields)

Something just came to mind.

Ok, since Las' arguement is now on the topic of population control how bout this.

If we ban abortion, then women will start doing back alley abortion, and killing both themselves AND the baby, 2 problems fixed in one fucking bang, glorious. A stupid slut and an unwanted child both gone.

Yeah, there are 3 year long adoption lines, people will pay you for your kids. I can understand not wanting them, give them the fuck away for money? Somebody else is not as much a fuckup as you and appriciates human life a lil bit.

For the love of god. You need reading skills, my topic is not population control. I posted for you on page 8 all the reasons why I'm pro-abortion. Read them please. You sure must not know much about how nature works in order to believe California is not crowded. All that empty space you say does work for something. It's not just there to look pretty.

Again, read on page 8. You are just rambling now with no basis just to avoid being "wrong"*.


*Wrong as in a point proven to make more sense, not as in wrong in the way your way of thought is incorrect.

[Remembrance]

It just pisses me off the stupidity of even SAYING that, I read all your fucking posts of why you think it should be allowed, but that one takes the fucking cake ass far as bullshit goes.

Please god explain to me why a bunch of dirt fields in the california valley (the best produce land in the fucking country) helps the environment, I really must have missed something =(

No plants, no homes, dirt. Understand?

k go.

*maybe I focused more on that reason, thus being freshly upset by it more, becuase I had never heard that reason, please forgive me for being uncultured.*

[Lasitha]

Fields are rotated every harvest. To avoid soil deteriorization. Sooner than later, those fields will get used to give you the best produce.

Plants produce Oxygen, all those big fields are possible grounds for plants that will keep our ozone layer in existence.

I never said "LEAVE THOSE FIELDS ALONE!!!!!" I said they serve a purpose. And that purpose is future possible harvesting fields, future possible oxygen sources, future possible reserves of land useable.

Whether the USA government will one day choose to build on them is not a concern. Right now, they aren't used to cram people in. When they tell you China is a greatly overpopulated country, do you picture people crammed in every square meter of land? No. There has to be land for other uses than just people living on it.

You have totally derailed the whole thread now. Please stop your silly argument of using the world because it's going to end anyways and believing the world is not crowded and attend to the OP.

[Remembrance]

Uh.. hows no sound..

You made a point, I DIDN'T like it, suck it up or don't say shit.

I really could give half a shit about the rest of the world. I am pretty sure South Dakota is in the united states, so this would be a USA matter from my perspective.

My state, in the united states, has plenty of unused land was my point, I been here in california my entire damned life and those fields haven't been used

And I would bet anything they won't be before I die.

The whole drop the subject becuase you don't like what you said is pretty moot..

[Okan]

Sort of off topic, but still sort of on topic. The biggest issue I see in all of abortion is "religion." "God" made you get pregnant for "reason." Well... There's supposed to be a clause that seperates CHURCH and STATE. I have yet to see this. Even in the military, and those of you that are in can attest to this, there was always a chaplain that would pray for particular events. Promotion ceremonies, etc. "Dear God, let today be a blessed day."

That's great for those that believe in your religion because I don't. Don't plan to start any time soon either. Haven't for the last 10 years of my life. Now it comes to abortion again. As stated above "God made you have this child." You know what? Fuck God and his opinions in this matter (By the way, no offense to you that believe in God. I'm just saying that we should actually honor our "Seperation of Church and State"). God should not be influencing our laws that dictate that women can or can not have a child or how it should be raised.

So all I'm saying is that anything related to religion in this matter should be completely dropped and not used to influence the laws that dictate a persons life.

I personally am Pro-Choice. The woman should decide what she should do with her body. If it was listed like it was by one member ( Mixing water and sugar and a baby pops out in 24 hours).. Fine. I'd be for adoption, but it's not an 9 months is a fairly long time to let some thing grow in you when you'd need to be supporting them for 18 years. Think of your pets. You had them for 9 months... You really want to let them go after that? After a few weeks, it wouldn't be so bad.

[Lasitha]

Uh.. hows no sound..

You made a point, I DIDN'T like it, suck it up or don't say shit.

I really could give half a shit about the rest of the world. I am pretty sure South Dakota is in the united states, so this would be a USA matter from my perspective.

My state, in the united states, has plenty of unused land was my point, I been here in california my entire damned life and those fields haven't been used

And I would bet anything they won't be before I die.

The whole drop the subject becuase you don't like what you said is pretty moot..

You keep bringing unrelated affairs into the OP, which is why people answer you. If you could give a shit about half or even all of the world then you wouldn't be here arguing if abortion is right or wrong or if Californa is crowded or not

It's like you said. If you don't like it suck it up.

[Parshias]

Not allowing abortion contributes to nature killing us faster, and I'd like my children and blood line to live as long as it can.

Bullshit, more people is not going to horribly fuck us all in the ass with polution. Do you know what will really save us from our own damn mistakes? Not abortion. I call it getting our shit together and creating systems to decrease pollution and un-fuck up our world. For all we know, abortion has killed the person who will design these helpful systems.

Yes, the man is just as responsible for the pregnancy as the woman is. Equally responsible. But guess what? That doesn't make it a non-issue. Many people have said that contraceptions are not 100% effective. There is one contraceptive that is: chastity. Don't want a baby? Don't have sex. Sex is designed to create that life, don't come bitching when your actions fulfill their original purpose. This goes for you too, guys.

Abortion is ok because the fetus can't form complex thoughts? neither can newborns. I'll bet you all the newborn will be thinking is, "Food is good, Pain is bad, I poo a lot." By your logic it should be completely ok to kill all the newborns in a hospital, its not like they can form complex thought or anything.

Here's food for thought: a doctor can perform an abortion with no hassles, yet is a murderer kills a pregnant mother, he is charged with the murder of two lives. Something doesn't add up here.

I never said a fetus can't think, though science hasn't been able to prove they do, however I do NOT see that as a reason to abort. I already specified the reasons why I believe abortion is right and should be allowed. Go back to page 8, I made a summary of it.

I never said abortion is right because it's less people to deal with.

Secondly, it's stupid to be as hypothetical as to say that you may have aborted the next Einstein, or the next Bach. Because the odds of that being true are the same odds of having aborted the next serial killer, the next Hitler, the next Franco, the next dictator.

Start reading, at least my posts. My reason to say abortion is right is not that our world is dying. People deserve the right to abort, but with that right comes also the obligation to protect yourself if you don't wish for a child.

You say you never stated population control as a benefit to keeping abortion legal, despite me quoting the line where you did from your own post?

I know you didn't say that fetus' can't think. You're not the only person arguing for abortion, sorry if I need to get individual quotes from each person in this topic not to confuse you over who I'm speaking to.

"We may have killed the next Einstein, but we may have killed the next Hitler," bullshit again? The slight chance of one baby being a genocidal maniac warrants the deaths of thousands of them? Sound reasoning, there.

[rahvin]

Again until someone provides concrete examples of how a mother across the country aborting a 1 month old mass of cells is hurting their livelyhood, my opinion still stands that you pro-lifers need to mind your own business.

I will add to this. Until someone provides concrete examples of how a murder accross the county murdering a 10 yr old mass of cells is hurting their livelyhood, My opinion still stands that you pro-lifers need to mind your own business.
While u have some nice arguments and comparisons this specfic one completely fails and cant hold any water.

Becuase again if you read what i said, the "rights" of an unborn child is not a reason i want to hear (which we can debate on if an unborn child being aborted is really murder). One is someone murdering a child who is already alive. One is up for debate, on how alive a fetus is when its inside its mother, on the mother's life support system. Some would argue that a fetus isnt alive inside the mother, but rather supported by the mothers systems in the womb, until it is born and its system takes over IE breathing etc.

That murderer killing a child across the country can easily fly to your side and murder your child or even you, therefore putting your life at risk. A mother aborting her child doesnt affect you in the same way, your life isnt at risk. Little more clear? Sry sparky you know me and should know that your argument wouldnt hold with me. Lol we can discuss this snowboarding saturday if you want.

[Lasitha]

The whole population control argument came from a branch of other arguments. I was arguing how abortion is good for population control, but I didn't say my reason for supporting abortion is that.

I didn't make the Einstein-Hitler argument, I said it was stupid to be as hypothetical like that. My reasons have been stated as to why I'm pro-abortion. They haven't changed, and they are based solely on the fact of knowing what kind of life most unplanned children have here.

No population control schemes or possible Einstein-Hitler murders are in play.

I didn't say that you thought I said I didn't believe fetus think. I was merely agreeing with you on that we cannot base the fairness of abortion on the fact a baby can't or can think.