Unji + Unsho =

[Naikon]

Doubt giving up all that haste for accuracy is worth it on ninja. Especially because all the damage from ninja comes from DoT.

It might work though, I've tried meat and did horrible. Prove me wrong.

[Ankiseth]

I tried meat and absolutely hated it, the Jins I got when all the hits landed were truly beautiful but it didn't happen all that much, I guess because I needed more acc from the loss of sushi. But I still just use Sole and only O Hat, SH/Haub, Swift Belt for acc and put whatever STR/DEX everywhere else.

[Twolves]

the thing with using meat on jin is you sacrifice so much acc for the attack food that you can't get any consistancy on ws. Even with parsing 93% acc with meat you will have basically no str or dex for ws since you don't want to miss a jin hit and to tell you the truth you hit for the same as you would with sushi when using meat .

[Miruka]

I use meat with capped Katana and can hold my own (I think, maybe they are being nice to me... D=) against decently geared WAR's pretty closely on Uleguerand Range demons. I think it's definitely an alternative, as 700+ attack 60% of the time (402 base attack, food, berserk, and bard cheating) is rather nice, but as Ankiseth said you're giving up a lot of stats for accuracy - most importantly around 10% haste.

I only merit in Range, and I think acc from equip in the range of low-mid 50s is necessary on top of merits to hit the DRKs and WARs up there with any consistancy (80% ._.), which ends up being... well, a lot of gear focusing on acc (and not on STR or whatever). I'm not sure how it would work out against Deco Weapons, mebbe I'll go play there tomorrow and see how at least melee hits seem to match up against the tables people have nicely provided here. =p

GOGO NUMBERS YAY (Wow this got really long.)

[Lockecole]

Like posted in a previous post this is the parser we use.

http://www.frontiernet.net/~Spyle/FFXI/ffxi.html

Hmmm I use that parser but can't get all of those stats you guys get it to keep track of. How do you get it to keep track of things like 'skill high/lows' crit hit % and all the rest?

[netz]

Options->Select reporting fields.

[Raineer]

Options->Select reporting fields.

Yeah, there's a stupid amount of shit in there to select.

On the ninja topic (meat vs sushi), gravity is a beautiful thing...make your RDM cast it since he doesn't have to cure you.

[SiryOp]

I have tested my nins +acc many times as sole hit >100k a stack around xmas thus causing me to think about switching to meat. I came to the conclusion that meat and nin just dont mix so well

With full katana merrits and sole I usually sport around +10acc in gear on VT weapons to keep a 95%ish hit rate. That is approx 340acc. With full katana merrits, matching that acc rate would take about +50acc in gear. The easiest and most obvious spots to give up for that would be o.hat,hauby,n.kotes, snipers, life belt. Granted meat is awesome and destroys shushi's numbers when acc isnt an issue, but giving up panther hat, dusk gloves, speed belt, flame rings for +acc is alot of stripped potential! And thats just on deco weapons, you would need to sacrifice even more slots for Golems and such XD. Ya, A- weapons kinda suck ; ;

[Lockecole]

Options->Select reporting fields.

Wow thanx, too bad I'm near never meriting again with any of my jobs. Oh well, there's always next set of merits.

[aurik]

Ninjas also have to consider the fact they aren't swinging with dmg 45+ weapons like most wars and monks.

Attack is best used when base damage is large, because it is basically a multiplier on that damage. You get a lot more "extra" damage when you're multiplying a big number.

Accuracy is best used when WS damage is a larger portion of overall damage dealt. More accuracy means faster TP, and consistently high WS because all the strikes connect.


You see the first philosophy more in mnk and war setups, since they are swinging big objects. There is more of an emphasis on maximizing damage done during the TP building phase, via pumping attack, because it produces the lion's share of their damage. For monks, it's hardly even worth macroing for asuran fists, as the modifiers are pathetically low and the damage dealt is highly dependant on the number of strikes that connect.

You see the second philosophy in a lot of DD nin setups: an emphasis on haste gear, accuracy food, and then macro to massive stat setups for WS. Basically, they give up extra damage during tp building phase in order to make that phase shorter, and rely on dealing damage through frequent high-damage WS.

[Nny]

Um, wasn't the delay trick giving your weapon 300 delay? After buffs your looking at having around a 250 delay, doing the trick would just lower delay. Plus the only piece of hecatomb that's any good for normal hits is the head. Hands and Feet...STR does almost nothing for normal attacks, hecatomb and dusk would hit for basically the same but dusk and no trick would attack faster. And head...11 STR isn't worth +50 delay. \:

As far as ATK food for NIN goes, although I don't have experience on it as NIN (I retired my NIN for EXP once I got a buffer, haven't EXPed on it in 4-5 months), judging from WAR I would think it's better. ATK food adds a lot of damage per hit. Well, actually, do you do Minuet*2 or Minuet+March? If you do Minuet*2, it might not add much.

But with March+Minuet it helps a shit load. Joyeuse with Berserk up hits 90+ a good amount, break triple digits every now and then. With sushi, 90+ is rare and I never saw Joyeuse hit triple digits with it. And Joyeuse has less DMG then a katana, so image what it does for those. Ridill, a weapon who's DMG is closer to a Katana's, hits for 90-100+ consistantly with berserk up. I'd say it's roughly Joyeuse averages ~70 a hit w/o berserk, Rid ~80, Joyeuse ~80 with berserk, Rid ~90 (Going off the fact that average hit overall is close to 80, might be less considering the whole Ridill attacking more).

If you do do minuet*2, then switching to March/Minuet and ATK food gives better stats. Just example, dropping Panther+1, Speed Belt, and whatever neck and instead equipping Life Belt, Optical Hat, and Peacock Charm, your looking at having a +1% haste increase (lose 9% haste in equipment but gain 10% haste in spell) and 37 ATK increase (lose 53 ATK from Minuet but gain 90 from Pie).

But, NIN also doesn't have Aggressor. Merited, Aggressor is up over 70% of the time, which is a nice +25 ACC. NIN does have the katana skill advantage though. After adding in Suppanomimi, that's a 14 skill point differnece fully merited both ways. You could add N.kote, which would probably give NIN better ACC overall since Aggressor isn't up all the time, but then that's loosing out on 20 ATK from O.kote, reducing the ATK gained by a lot. Without N.kote though, ACC rate should still be in the high 80's.

Something like this setup would give mid-to-high 80% acc (I'd guess around 86-88 ), add ~15+ average per hit, but also gaining about 10 delay compared to having haste. I'd try it myself since a lot of gear is both NIN and WAR equipable but I have 0 katana merits. :\

[Nny]

Double post cuz I'm lazy you and you posted while I started typing.

Ninjas also have to consider the fact they aren't swinging with dmg 45+ weapons like most wars and monks.

Attack is best used when base damage is large, because it is basically a multiplier on that damage. You get a lot more "extra" damage when you're multiplying a big number.

Accuracy is best used when WS damage is a larger portion of overall damage dealt. More accuracy means faster TP, and consistently high WS because all the strikes connect.

Ridill/Joyeuse is worse DMG then Senj/Fudo (40+35 v.s. 38+39), yet ATK food still works better there. ATK food, atleast for WAR, doesn't do much when it comes to +WS damage. The main thing ATK food does for RId/Joy is the added damage per hit, because the concept is to attack really fast and it's a lot of added damage per hit. NIN is basically the same deal, most damage comes from actual normal hits instead of WS damage (Though most NINs only seem to care about :Jin).

The main thing about WAR with ATK food is Aggressor, allowing to pretty easily hit close to the same ACC% as sushi. However, when I only had a 86-88% ACC rate on my WAR before I optimized my ATK food gear, I was still doing +100 more damage a fight when using ATK food compared to using sushi.

[Baltasar]

I tried Yellow Curry (might not be best choice) and same gear setup I've been using on my ninja with sole sushi against Deco/Auras. Normal acc is 92-95% with Sole Sushi on on Yellow Curry it went down to 70% <.<

I have 288Katana Skill and 25acc total daytime when I Tried. However I got yet to try out the Life belt over Warwolfs and a Woodsman/Sniper instead of Flame.If 15acc make that much difference I'm not sure I'll parse it sometime and try Rice Dumplings perhaps instead of Yellow Curry at first this time, since it's 30min and not 3hours.

Is there a meat ninja out there with parsing results I'd like to see those in that case and preferable a list of your gears

[aurik]

Hedgehog pie please, rice dumplings have an absurdly low atk cap.

And yes if you go acc gear + att food, you really need to go acc gear.
I kit out 50 acc now on my mnk, including the 5 from food:
op hat (10)
harness+1 (12)
sting (2)
sniper +1 x2 (14)
shura haidate (7)
food (5)

total: 50

Accuracy in krt approaches 90 on average; if I am diligent with eye drops I usually parse a bit over 90%. With Flame gorget my asurans are almost always 8/8 strikes.

[kisada]

I tried Yellow Curry (might not be best choice) and same gear setup I've been using on my ninja with sole sushi against Deco/Auras. Normal acc is 92-95% with Sole Sushi on on Yellow Curry it went down to 70% <.<

I have 288Katana Skill and 25acc total daytime when I Tried. However I got yet to try out the Life belt over Warwolfs and a Woodsman/Sniper instead of Flame.If 15acc make that much difference I'm not sure I'll parse it sometime and try Rice Dumplings perhaps instead of Yellow Curry at first this time, since it's 30min and not 3hours.

Is there a meat ninja out there with parsing results I'd like to see those in that case and preferable a list of your gears

unfortunately i don't have any saved parses, because the acc was so embarrassing i just deleted it. seriously, to the point where people start sending you tells and tell you to mijin and use sushi

i've messed around with meat a lot (i used coeurl subs) and they typically always produce the same results.

on aura weapons, acc gear i used:

op hat (10)
koga chainmail (12)
n.kote (10)
pcc (10)
maxed katana merits

other junk:
senjuinrikio/fudo
brutal earring
suppanomimi
flame ring
rajas ring
forager's mantle
speed belt
byakko's haidate
fuma sune-ate
bomb core

ws gear:
breeze
minuet earring for suppanomimi
warwolf belt for speed belt
osode for koga
rutter sabatons for fumas

my most recent parse with meat was with 2 ridill/adaman hauberk wars and another nin (who used unji/unsho). while my damage was definitely comparable (i believe i was lowest of all 4, but only by 50-100 points), the accuracy dropoff was something like 15-20% from sushi. i believe i was around 75% for the entire parse.

though the jins were high when they connected, i got more 7's and 11's than i did 12's or 13's on tp return. changing to life belt from speed did help a little, but i don't believe that adding 14 more from HQ snipers on top of life belt, would have made up for the already large 15%+ drop-off from sushi.

also i tried meat on the aura statues, and those were even more worse results than on aura weapons.

i think that for best results in merit parties, sushi is normally the easiest and best way to go. however, if there is a method in which you can reach a 90% acc level AND still eat meat, that would probably be more powerful than the average sushi ninja. one thing i would like to try is dual HQ snipers and hope torque (if that's the katana one), but until i have all 3, or feel like trying something else, i'd rather just stick to sushi.

[Lockecole]

one thing i would like to try is dual HQ snipers and hope torque (if that's the katana one), but until i have all 3, or feel like trying something else, i'd rather just stick to sushi.

I'm sorry but I can't see under any circumstance replacing Rajas Ring. The amount of DoT it adds and TP (lets a NIN break the 5TP cap by giving between 10.5-11 [I think I recall 12 also? maybe that was WAR] TP per set of attacks) will counterbalance the 7 acc of a Snipers anyday.

[_Zoolander_]

Sniper rings and blade:ku make me die inside

Oh I was curious too on your guys' opinion on Osode melee vs hauby vs koga.

I have all three, and honestly I like osode the most so far, It seems like hit for hit, at least with zerk up is harder and crits are alot better. I usually just leave it on all the time now, especially on D. weapons where it seems acc just cant get much better. Koga is meh, pretty much a togi-1. Hauby+1 make any difference for any of you?

[noremorse]

I like Osode best as well, I use it 100%. Imo Osode > Haub +1 > NQ Haub > Shura Or AF body

[Miruka]

Looong post, hope it has sooome substance.

Balthazar: These are a little old (a week or two). Sorry for the weird tables. It's name, total damage, average hit [top/bottom], acc% [connect/total]. I filtered everyone else because... I'm too ADD to count shadows as is, lol. Gogo numbers!

DEX 70+26, Acc+49, Katana Skill +14, Bison Steak (friend skilling up cooking! =p), 40-odd mobs
Miruka__________ __8090 __66.3[_121/__38] _89.1%[_122/_137] (Kindred Black Mage)
Miruka__________ __4661 __56.8[_110/__26] _73.2%[__82/_112] (Kindred Dark Knight)
Miruka__________ __7376 __64.7[_128/__38] _78.6%[_114/_145] (Kindred Summoner) <- just noticed this... huh?! o.o;
Miruka__________ __9323 __60.1[_120/__33] _70.1%[_155/_221] (Kindred Warrior)
Miruka__________ _16350 __62.2[_118/__16] _88.9%[_263/_296] (Molech)
Miruka__________ __7879 __65.1[_121/__37] _80.1%[_121/_151] (Smolenkos)

Same stats, Acc +59, Katana Skill +16, same food (100-odd mobs) - this is what I use now
Miruka__________ _11863 __63.8[_128/__25] _91.2%[_186/_204] (Kindred Black Mage)
Miruka__________ _16868 __58.2[_123/__26] _81.7%[_290/_355] (Kindred Dark Knight)
Miruka__________ _16337 __64.6[_132/__29] _91.0%[_253/_278] (Kindred Summoner)
Miruka__________ _17864 __61.8[_125/__35] _80.7%[_289/_358] (Kindred Warrior)
Miruka__________ _39681 __63.9[_120/___9] _90.8%[_621/_684] (Molech)
Miruka__________ _19140 __67.9[_129/__28] _88.1%[_282/_320] (Smolenkos)
Miruka__________ 121753 __63.4[_132/___9] _87.4%[1921/2199] (Overall)

_Zoolander_: To me, compared to Haubergeon (NQ/+1), Koga is weak (although I might just say that because I can't get one D=), and Osode isn't focused enough. The difference between Koga and Haubergeon (and Togi?) is probably negligible, but compared to an Osode, I would think that even when eating Sushi you would need at least a little bit of acc, and the losses (if you can even call it that) in body slot from switching to Haubergeon is a lot less than if you did similar changes anywhere else.

Lockecole: Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Raja's gives anywhere near 11 TP a swing, I don't even think it's 10.5. And even if it did, it would still take 10 attack rounds to reach 100TP. You can't WS on 99%.

[Rasengan]

Lockecole: Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Raja's gives anywhere near 11 TP a swing, I don't even think it's 10.5. And even if it did, it would still take 10 attack rounds to reach 100TP. You can't WS on 99%.

After a Blade: Jin, you'll usually get at least 12%TP so if it is 11TP/attack round, its one less attack round to do a WS.

(12,23,34,45,56,67,78,89,100 as opposed to 12,22,32,42,52,62,72,82,92,102)