Please stop

[layoneil]

actually, i say "organized" religion all the time and have never actually put any thought into what an "unorganzied" religion is.

so if my beliefs make me a believer of an unorganized religion and therefore that makes me religious than so be it.

if that's the case, anyone with coherenet, intelligent thought and has any kind of beliefs is religious than the word might as well not exist.

since the word does exist and since it's suppose to be mean something, i equate religion = organized religion, and unorganized religion as simply having beliefs of your own, which are more or less independent of what other people believe.

A deist is a person who believes in a deity. If you do not believe in one, or are unsure, then you might not be a deist.

the thing is, i do believe in one. i'm unsure on what it is but who says a deist can't be unsure? what deist scripture did you get that from?

Unless you can give me scientific evidence to support these beliefs, I'd be tempted to call you religious.

i don't believe so many coincidences can exist, there are way too many religions for all of them to be complete BS. therefore the likelihood of most organized religions being based on something that actually exists is greater than that they are all based on something that doesn't exist.

odds are they can't all be totally wrong. is that scientific? i don't know. why does it have to be scientific anyway?

I'm beginning to wonder if you know what deism is.

my definition of deism is the belief that there exists something greater than us. if there's a better word for that, let me know. and that's really the extent of what i believe, i have other little minute details which i can list but i don't think a phrase exists to describe that unless someone wants to name an unorganized religion after me or something weird like that.

So you're saying that an Athiest does not actively pursue a cause, princible, or activity with zeal or devotion?

what exactly does an Atheist actively pursue in the cause or devotion to Atheism?

It sounds like it takes a significant amount of faith to specifically believe something does not exist without any evidence one way or the other. The pursuit of this faith, as I would see it, is rather zealous. Also, it might take a sort of devotion to put into practice.

it sounds like that to me too if you can tell me exactly how one pursues Atheism or Deism.

i know how people pursue forms of organized religion but i don't know how one goes about pursuing forms of unorganized religion.

dictionary.com isn't my bible. i believe the things in dictionary.com is written by humans and it can be wrong just like every other source of information compiled by humans.

Then don't use it to attempt to disprove me.

the definition of most words are pretty accurate. you should also look at the source that lists Atheist as a form of religion.

Jargon File 4.2.0

oh and believing parts of it is wrong doesn't mean you have to believe all of it is wrong. that's the problem with religious folks imo.

Then why call it deism? It only confuses people.

it's the closest word i know.

quick question which so far no one has been able to answer

If god was an all loving entity, why would he allow children to be born with defects?

I just want to stir the pot a bit

the only logical explanation to me is that God isn't an all loving entity.

[Warudo Ecksu]

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[Shaede]

the thing is, i do believe in one. i'm unsure on what it is but who says a deist can't be unsure? what deist scripture did you get that from?

There is no deist "scripture". I found the Wikipedia entry to be a nice reference for it. It's noteworthy that America was founded by Deists, not Christians, as is the common belief. Many popular deists of the 18th century held the teachings of Jesus in high regards, though I know a few were very cynical about Paul (and understandably so).

i don't believe so many coincidences can exist, there are way too many religions for all of them to be complete BS. therefore the likelihood of most organized religions being based on something that actually exists is greater than that they are all based on something that doesn't exist.

odds are they can't all be totally wrong. is that scientific? i don't know. why does it have to be scientific anyway?

This is exactly why mythology and theology is a fascination of mine. It becomes even more interesting when you start discovering that the world religions share the same common core elements.

It certainly doesn't have to be scientific, but unless you use a logical manmade approach to backing up your previous statements, we'd have to assume they're based on something else. What else is there beyond human logic and reason? I think religion tries to answer that.

what exactly does an Atheist actively pursue in the cause or devotion to Atheism?

How much does anyone pursue their devotion?

i know how people pursue forms of organized religion but i don't know how one goes about pursuing forms of unorganized religion.

I think that's for you to figure out. I think you'll find that ultimately, everyone has their own beliefs, even if they are part of a larger cult.

[Shaede]

Oh, and about Deism:

Imagine programming a virtual world filled with little virtual people that all have a seperate AI. They can do anything humans can, only within the computer. You could sit there and watch as they try to figure out what they are for ages.

Could you climb into the computer and say "Hello!" in person? No. You exist in the material plane, seperate from the virtual one.

Maybe you'd have an interface to interact with it. Maybe you could control a virtual person and interact with them, but ultimatly how would prove your existance to them?

I believe that's the mindset of the deist.

[Sparky]

quick question which so far no one has been able to answer :D


If god was an all loving entity, why would he allow children to be born with defects?


I just want to stir the pot a bit

First let me say that i do believe God to be an "All loving Entity". Many "Non-believers" will throw questions at Religious people, like myself, in an attempt to foul us up. Here is my personal points of view on this subject.

When my Grandfather was a young man attending school he was constantly beaten for using his left hand to write his work in class. To most people these days this may seem ridiculous but it did in fact happen. When my brother was born he had a ruptured (sp?) aorta and almost died. 2 times a year he goes in to the doctor to make sure that his heart his working correctly. My brother has difficulty with prolonged physical activities. I love my brother and i love my grandfatherr. Do they have problems.. Yes .... Why?

I believe that Satan (the devil) puts obstacles (example: Defects) in our lives to test our faith. I believe that God puts people in our life to help us grow in our faith and to assist us with our personal relationship with Him. So by allowing Satan to test us (Giving Birth defects to children in this case) God can take a negative and turn it into a positive contribution to our life. Again this is just my opinion

[Banigaru]

Or it's a convienent story to trick yourself into ignoring the cruel incalcuable chaos of the world. It's more comforting to know that there is someone greater then ones self looking out for them then to realize the fact that life comes down to nothing but chemical intereactions and statistics. However, on the other hand a person of faith simply responds that despite all the knowledge a person may possess about the universe, they lack the simple passion and humility to accept something as greater as themselves, ultimatley creating the paradox that exists between science and religion.

I think this sums it up the best really http://www.venzanga.org

ok not really but it's funny as hell

[Andarvi]

To me the basis of religion derives from people's preoccupancy with the thoughts of death and the afterlife. human nature makes people become intimate with one another and the thought of a loved one vanishing forever, the thought of that happening to oneself, caused people to construct religion.

The best part of religion in general is how people hold is almighty and close to their heart yet many fail to even know the basic principles of its foundations. i went to a catholic high school (unfortunately) and have come to the realization that MOST catholics dont even know the basics of their own religion or their religions history (catholocism has been a political tool more than a religion for the majority of its institution). they go to mass on sunday (occasionally) and recieve their communion when they dont even understand the significance it holds in the religion they claim to be a part of. guess what? that is serious sin in catholocism, but many who routinely do it will also be quick to use religion as a basis for their opinions on things like gay rights and abortion. i use catholocism as an example from personal experience, although considering it is human nature that this behavior comes from im sure i know its observed in other religions as well.

to those who are so convicted in their beliefs, if it makes you happy to be so, then fine. i have a problem when politicians and evangelists try to take that belief and impose it on others.

remember this, you are the religion you are because your parents are that religion. this is the case with 99% of people claiming to be part of a particular religion. if you are a "devout" catholic or jew or whatever just think that if your parents or family were hindu, you would be too, and your opinions on other religions would be entirely different.

AND religions are extremely self centered, thinking that god created the universe for just earth and humanity. there are 10,000,000,000 stars per galaxy and roughly 100,000,000,000 galaxies out there, theres a better chance of intelligent life somewhere in the universe than of any religious figure in history's creed being true.

if god is perfect in everyway, why create anything? that defies the very definition of perfection. the only other options is that there is either no god or that if there is he isnt perfect, and an imperfect god challenges the route of all religions.

[rooster]

Oh, and about Deism:

Imagine programming a virtual world filled with little virtual people that all have a seperate AI. They can do anything humans can, only within the computer. You could sit there and watch as they try to figure out what they are for ages.

Could you climb into the computer and say "Hello!" in person? No. You exist in the material plane, seperate from the virtual one.

Maybe you'd have an interface to interact with it. Maybe you could control a virtual person and interact with them, but ultimatly how would prove your existance to them?

I believe that's the mindset of the deist.

holy fking shit... Listening to shaede and sendoh argue about what is or isn't a religous belief has actually shed light on who god is...

This is god.

http://www.meatspin.com



...


Follow me children to the path of pure enlightenment.

[Sparky]

remember this, you are the religion you are because your parents are that religion. this is the case with 99% of people claiming to be part of a particular religion. if you are a "devout" catholic or jew or whatever just think that if your parents or family were hindu, you would be too, and your opinions on other religions would be entirely different.

Religion is not soley based on your parenst upbringing. If it was "Evangelical" Christians, Mormons who go on missions, JW who ride around on bikes would be all for not. Clearly 3 major faiths have better things to do then try and convert the uncovertable.

Making blanket statements on either side of this debate can kill any credibility you might have.. Just giving you a heads up ^^

[Paralyzed]

I think this forum has the highest count of links to gay porn. ;_;

I can understand why people would want to believe in something, hell no one wants to feel like this is all pointless crap. But when Wars, or when people kill others because their God wants them too, I can not look at religion in a positive light.

[Andarvi]

remember this, you are the religion you are because your parents are that religion. this is the case with 99% of people claiming to be part of a particular religion. if you are a "devout" catholic or jew or whatever just think that if your parents or family were hindu, you would be too, and your opinions on other religions would be entirely different.

Religion is not soley based on your parenst upbringing. If it was "Evangelical" Christians, Mormons who go on missions, JW who ride around on bikes would be all for not. Clearly 3 major faiths have better things to do then try and convert the uncovertable.

Making blanket statements on either side of this debate can kill any credibility you might have.. Just giving you a heads up ^^

i didnt say solely