So let's take for instance...

[aurik]

Maybe he needs the accuracy to help him land his songs?

[Lordwafik]

what the fuck is a bard going to do with a dalmatica? that's about as useful as a ridill samurai

Naw it's not a bad choice for them. In many HNM , bards are doing healing (like @ faf, they're usually throwing out a curaga to help healers out), and they dont always have ballad on themselves.

It's the same reason why many bards have vermillion cloaks.

They reach a point where CHR isnt everything and MP is something. Most likley in smaller groups (like 12 man faf) or things like Aspid/Dynamis where you're dealing with many mobs at once.

[inafume]

I don't get the BRD Osode rage here. If you have all 4 available, they all become situational.

Errant - -enmity is the big stat on this, mainly for longer fights
Osode - lack of -STR/-VIT compared to errant make this a better choice if you are being hit (IE, pulling in an xp party)
Manteel - all about the haste and song recast
Dalmatica - for BRD/SMN or in general when you have a lot of healing to do

[Ankiseth]

Osode is better than Errant to a lot of bards because of the big MP+ on Osode, so I will give them that. I did want one for my bard because of that.

Of course, I ended up getting a Dalmatica on my bard and it is DEFINITELY useful. Hell, when you're fighting end-game crap CHR doesn't mean a thing, so I'd definitely go for more MP and that is something an Osode or Dalmatica definitely gives you.

As for the looting situation, the WHM has Noble's, so find him and beat the living hell out of him for wanting a Dalm.

[aurik]

Osode is better than Errant to a lot of bards because of the big MP+ on Osode, so I will give them that. I did want one for my bard because of that.

In general this argument is silly, because the true governing factor of how much mp you can burn over long periods of time is not max mp but rather mp recovery rate.

Osode is useful on bards, but their use out of it is largely overstated, generally by vocal bards who want osodes.

[Ankiseth]

Well I do agree that a Dalm or Vermy is better than an Osode, but Osodes come easier for most Bards because of the price of a Vermy and the rarity of a Dalm.

[Genosync]

First of all Geno, what kind of LS are you in that this has to be discussed on a public forum?

One that never wants me to post about anything anywhere public and I don't care about the clause anymore if one of the leaders is going to be a greedy bastard lootwhore.

As an officer he should be understanding of what you can bring to the discussion and how the system in your LS works.

He wouldn't care, I already tried to talk to him about it.

[Demosthenes11]

Any white mage or black mage that lots dalmatica before a rdm or brd deserves to be shot in the face, honestly.

[tiberion02]

Any white mage or black mage that lots dalmatica before a rdm or brd deserves to be shot in the face, honestly.

[mdn]

Any white mage or black mage that lots dalmatica before a rdm or brd deserves to be shot in the face, honestly.

i speak as a blm with a dalmatica who got it only after all of the linkshells red mages (and trust me, i really didn't care), even ones in the linkshell a much shorter time than me, when i say that honestly, a dalmatica is replacable by a different body piece on every job that can use it. smn->jujitsu gi thing, whm->noble's tunic, blm->black cloak, brd->verm, rdm->verm

for any spell you're swapping out body pieces for anything serious anyway, so for the major benefit: refresh, each piece does exactly the same thing.

what benefit do you get on your bard wearing a dalmatica that someone on their blm doesn't? it should go to whoever has helped the linkshell the most, whoever is the most active, and whoever [holyshit]deserves it.

[aurik]

Well I do agree that a Dalm or Vermy is better than an Osode, but Osodes come easier for most Bards because of the price of a Vermy and the rarity of a Dalm.

On my server, Osode is worth the same as about 4-6 Verms depending on market fluctuation. It's rather inefficient that HNMLS don't simply sell 1 osode and outfit all their bards with verms -- and hey that armor can also be used to xp other mage jobs, which a lot of bards have.

[aurik]

Any white mage or black mage that lots dalmatica before a rdm or brd deserves to be shot in the face, honestly.

i speak as a blm with a dalmatica who got it only after all of the linkshells red mages (and trust me, i really didn't care), even ones in the linkshell a much shorter time than me, when i say that honestly, a dalmatica is replacable by a different body piece on every job that can use it. smn->jujitsu gi thing, whm->noble's tunic, blm->black cloak, brd->verm, rdm->verm

for any spell you're swapping out body pieces for anything serious anyway, so for the major benefit: refresh, each piece does exactly the same thing.

what benefit do you get on your bard wearing a dalmatica that someone on their blm doesn't? it should go to whoever has helped the linkshell the most, whoever is the most active, and whoever [holyshit]deserves it.

Dalmatica is awesome for rdms because it can be paired with af2 hat for double-refresh between spells; verm cannot.

[Lockecole]

when i say that honestly, a dalmatica is replacable by a different body piece on every job that can use it. smn->jujitsu gi thing, whm->noble's tunic, blm->black cloak, brd->verm, rdm->verm
for any spell you're swapping out body pieces for anything serious anyway, so for the major benefit: refresh, each piece does exactly the same thing.

http://ffxi.somepage.com/itemdb/4327

[Izzy]

Any white mage or black mage that lots dalmatica before a rdm or brd deserves to be shot in the face, honestly.

i speak as a blm with a dalmatica who got it only after all of the linkshells red mages (and trust me, i really didn't care), even ones in the linkshell a much shorter time than me, when i say that honestly, a dalmatica is replacable by a different body piece on every job that can use it. smn->jujitsu gi thing, whm->noble's tunic, blm->black cloak, brd->verm, rdm->verm

for any spell you're swapping out body pieces for anything serious anyway, so for the major benefit: refresh, each piece does exactly the same thing.

what benefit do you get on your bard wearing a dalmatica that someone on their blm doesn't? it should go to whoever has helped the linkshell the most, whoever is the most active, and whoever [holyshit]deserves it.

Yet you seem to be missing the point. Dalmatica benefits a BRD and an RDM a lot more than it does any of those other jobs. BRD and RDM have no other Refresh body(except the shitty BRD JSE harness) that allows them to wear headgear at the same time. Are you saying an RDM with a vermillion cloak is more useful than an RDM with a Dalmatica+AF/AF2 hat? Or a BRD with Dalmatica+Opo Crown/AF2 head/Whatever? RDM and BRD benefit from Dalmatica a lot more than SMN BLM and WHM Do.

[Eternus]

You do know the refresh from Dalmatica stacks with RDM AF2 hat? Fuck wearing Verm on RDM if you have AF2 hat then. BRD isn't bad for Dalm.. but it is situational.. like pulling in xp parties I do not want that -HP.... Osode is nice because it has NO negative stats.. like you get 30 MP.. and do not lose any HP omg. The -3 enmity is nice on errant, but I wear AF2 hat (yeah yeah lose out on crown, but can eat salad) and Tamas ring.. which gives me -6 enmity total already (it does the trick). MP while resting on errant is worthless on BRD of course and the negative VIT sucks ass for pulling in xp pts, as well as the lower DEF. I was going to upgrade AF1 BRD body, but that damn Musical Earring came out. I just need coiled yarn and I can get AF1+1 body, but the shit never drops when I am there lol.

[Demosthenes11]

when i say that honestly, a dalmatica is replacable by a different body piece on every job that can use it. smn->jujitsu gi thing, whm->noble's tunic, blm->black cloak, brd->verm, rdm->verm
for any spell you're swapping out body pieces for anything serious anyway, so for the major benefit: refresh, each piece does exactly the same thing.

http://ffxi.somepage.com/itemdb/4327

I did not write that

[Lockecole]

when i say that honestly, a dalmatica is replacable by a different body piece on every job that can use it. smn->jujitsu gi thing, whm->noble's tunic, blm->black cloak, brd->verm, rdm->verm
for any spell you're swapping out body pieces for anything serious anyway, so for the major benefit: refresh, each piece does exactly the same thing.

http://ffxi.somepage.com/itemdb/4327

I did not write that

Sorry it's late, deleted the wrong "quote" beginning.

[Heian]

There is no discussion if your LS' rules are clearly stated, if you don't have enough points that's tough shit. If you don't like the system you can leave your ls, or decide to stop crying about not being next for dalmatica. Poor geno WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW

That bold part is where you lost all crediblity.

[geno]

what benefit do you get on your bard wearing a dalmatica that someone on their blm doesn't?

.

I'd say one major difference is, at least when comparing BLM vrs RDM or BRD: The spells most BRDs cast offensively (Elegy / Requiem / Lullaby / Threnody) are all hit or miss. There is no difference in potency no matter which body piece we wear (at least nothing noticeable if you count minstrels coat). Keeping that in mind, most of the things BRDs cast on are either rediculously easy to land on, or impossibly hard to land on, and there is very little middle ground. So CHR doesnt really matter .. at all. You could just wear a refresh piece during debuffs. Also, debuffing is a small part of the job since most times are on buffs. BLMs on the other hand will suffer a damage loss on every nuke (no weskit), and will probably even notice a change in enfeeble rate. Potency and resist rate become a concern, thus you can't wear it as often. On top of all this, even if they did choose to wear a refresh piece during those things, there is an existent piece of attainable gear (AF2/black cloak) which provides an advantage during those spells (ele skill) as well as allows hat (in the case of AF2). Same goes for comparing BLM to RDM. Its even more obvious comparing it to RDM.

The one point I would concede on the issue though, is that BRDs dont often cure that much. Even when they have the MP and willingness to cure, usually people already have full HP. So BRDs often end up with full MP because they don't have enough buffs to cast to waste all their MP without wasting their time. BRD with Dalm is most useful for doing things with small numbers and where BRD is going to NEED to be curing.

[Dezzimal]

Locke... You should see this bard on Unicorn.. *Only* wears a Scorpion Harness... I don't think she has any other body armor.

Who is that, sheilorb? She's downgraded to Cardinal Vest now I think.