So let's take for instance...

[Ichthyos]

Locke... You should see this bard on Unicorn.. *Only* wears a Scorpion Harness... I don't think she has any other body armor.

Who is that, sheilorb? She's downgraded to Cardinal Vest now I think.

Hey, that's not as bad as a bard I partied with almost two years ago in Ro'Maeve who would only wear his Assault Jerkin, melee (not sing) while we were fighting a mob, and only sing when people were resting. He couldn't comprehend the idea that any time we weren't fighting a mob was time wasted.

I swear, bards get away with such crap lol.

[Elemmire]

I still don't get why a BRD wants an Osode.. you get your CHR+10 from Errant and Enmity- and a good bard tends to pull some hate since they are constantly singing.

Anyways.. about the Dalmatica... I only really see it being useful to a RDM who main cures. The more MP and Refresh will come in handy if the RDM needs to main cure (which is usually what we do in merit parties or sometimes in HNM fights). Other than that it's just a toy. SMN has YYR, WHM has its AF2 body and its Nobles Tunic. BLM has the Iq gear that I can't spell or even other pieces that are better. BRD has Errant which is better for them and Sha'ire Manteel too. However.. a BRD in a merit party would make good use of a dalmatica too being that it has the Magic Def+ which will help their stoneskin (and since they pull the longer they can take hits the better) and the more MP and Refresh would allow them to help cure with the RDM. But, if your LS is point based than those points must account up to how much they help the LS out as a whole, I'd assume, and deservedly so should get to spend them on what they want. If they want a Dalmatica, I might be annoyed as a RDM, but I wouldn't mind as they earned it.

[Hirronimus]

If LS has point system for item distribution, job priority goes out the window.

[mdn]

Any white mage or black mage that lots dalmatica before a rdm or brd deserves to be shot in the face, honestly.

i speak as a blm with a dalmatica who got it only after all of the linkshells red mages (and trust me, i really didn't care), even ones in the linkshell a much shorter time than me, when i say that honestly, a dalmatica is replacable by a different body piece on every job that can use it. smn->jujitsu gi thing, whm->noble's tunic, blm->black cloak, brd->verm, rdm->verm

for any spell you're swapping out body pieces for anything serious anyway, so for the major benefit: refresh, each piece does exactly the same thing.

what benefit do you get on your bard wearing a dalmatica that someone on their blm doesn't? it should go to whoever has helped the linkshell the most, whoever is the most active, and whoever [holyshit]deserves it.

Yet you seem to be missing the point. Dalmatica benefits a BRD and an RDM a lot more than it does any of those other jobs. BRD and RDM have no other Refresh body(except the shitty BRD JSE harness) that allows them to wear headgear at the same time. Are you saying an RDM with a vermillion cloak is more useful than an RDM with a Dalmatica+AF/AF2 hat? Or a BRD with Dalmatica+Opo Crown/AF2 head/Whatever? RDM and BRD benefit from Dalmatica a lot more than SMN BLM and WHM Do.

the same can be said about black mages wearing a dalmatica instead of a black cloak, not to mention how rare af2 hat actually is for rdm and the simple ability to macro out that verm for a body+head piece with real stats at every spell cast. like i said, we gave it to the red mages first, but i'm still a strong supporter of the idea that whoever helps the linkshell the most should get the items they want before others, job-by-job priority leads to some pretty crazy stuff

[Demosthenes11]

The point is, there is no situation where a blm would be wearing a dalmatica besides resting.

Red Mages have a bunch of different uses for it, so it only makes sense

[Izzy]

Any white mage or black mage that lots dalmatica before a rdm or brd deserves to be shot in the face, honestly.

i speak as a blm with a dalmatica who got it only after all of the linkshells red mages (and trust me, i really didn't care), even ones in the linkshell a much shorter time than me, when i say that honestly, a dalmatica is replacable by a different body piece on every job that can use it. smn->jujitsu gi thing, whm->noble's tunic, blm->black cloak, brd->verm, rdm->verm

for any spell you're swapping out body pieces for anything serious anyway, so for the major benefit: refresh, each piece does exactly the same thing.

what benefit do you get on your bard wearing a dalmatica that someone on their blm doesn't? it should go to whoever has helped the linkshell the most, whoever is the most active, and whoever [holyshit]deserves it.

Yet you seem to be missing the point. Dalmatica benefits a BRD and an RDM a lot more than it does any of those other jobs. BRD and RDM have no other Refresh body(except the shitty BRD JSE harness) that allows them to wear headgear at the same time. Are you saying an RDM with a vermillion cloak is more useful than an RDM with a Dalmatica+AF/AF2 hat? Or a BRD with Dalmatica+Opo Crown/AF2 head/Whatever? RDM and BRD benefit from Dalmatica a lot more than SMN BLM and WHM Do.

the same can be said about black mages wearing a dalmatica instead of a black cloak, not to mention how rare af2 hat actually is for rdm and the simple ability to macro out that verm for a body+head piece with real stats at every spell cast. like i said, we gave it to the red mages first, but i'm still a strong supporter of the idea that whoever helps the linkshell the most should get the items they want before others, job-by-job priority leads to some pretty crazy stuff

If there aren't job-priorities then we'll just see stupid shit like WAR lotting Koenig before PLD and SAM lotting Ridills before WAR. Only selfish dickheads lot shit for e-peen when other jobs can get much better use out of it.

[½pint]

Whilst personally I do think that it should go in the order BRD > RDM > SMN > WHM > BLM, I do not think that

The point is, there is no situation where a blm would be wearing a dalmatica besides resting.

Red Mages have a bunch of different uses for it, so it only makes sense

is good reasoning. Anybody playing a job well will macro in different equipment for almost every action they take; and therefore if you say that the only time BLM will be wearing it is when resting / idle, then you have to accept that the only time that a RDM will be wearing it is when resting / idle also. Unless the BLM or RDM are lazy. Bard, on the other hand, does not need to macro in other equipment when playing songs or curing, and will benefit from the refresh from Dalmatica almost 100% of the time.

[Lordwafik]

and therefore if you say that the only time BLM will be wearing it is when resting / idle, then you have to accept that the only time that a RDM will be wearing it is when resting / idle also. Unless the BLM or RDM are lazy.

I dont know if i read this correct, but I disagree. I wear this while curing/refreshing/hasting etc, nice peice. I wouldnt wear a dalm resting, i'd wear errant.

[½pint]

and therefore if you say that the only time BLM will be wearing it is when resting / idle, then you have to accept that the only time that a RDM will be wearing it is when resting / idle also. Unless the BLM or RDM are lazy.

I dont know if i read this correct, but I disagree. I wear this while curing/refreshing/hasting etc, nice peice. I wouldnt wear a dalm resting, i'd wear errant.

And a BLM would wear it while curing / using non-nuke spells. And a BLM would wear errant while resting. If the RDM wanted, he could put in +fast cast or +healing/enhancing skill in those slots instead.

[Eternus]

BLM has Black Cloak and AF2 body for refresh body pieces. They should be last on the priority list for Dalmatica. SMN used to be high on priority until Ying Yang Robe came out.

[Taku]

If LS has point system for item distribution, job priority goes out the window.

There's ways of implementing point systems that accommodate job priority...

How come people keep saying +Magic Def makes Stoneskin last longer? Stoneskin is effected by MND and Enhance skill... unless you're referring to damage reduction by wyrm wing's, but I don't see how that would be beneficial in places like KRT exp PT's.

Also, a BRD get that much more with Dalmatica than they do with Verm... not because of the reasons that geno listed, but because you would just macro it off when using elegy/lullaby anyways. The +MP is nice, but the -HP sucks, and my BRD gets to less than 600 HP with full MP gear(meaning if you need the MP for certain fights, you can get enough conversion gear in other slots to make using any more a hazard).

As mentioned before, I don't know a WHM or BLM would even want it... as even if the abjuration is free, it wouldn't even be worth it to pay to uncurse it for those jobs.

[Lordwafik]

[quote=½pint]

and therefore if you say that the only time BLM will be wearing it is when resting / idle, then you have to accept that the only time that a RDM will be wearing it is when resting / idle also. Unless the BLM or RDM are lazy.

I dont know if i read this correct, but I disagree. I wear this while curing/refreshing/hasting etc, nice peice. I wouldnt wear a dalm resting, i'd wear errant.

And a BLM would wear it while curing / using non-nuke spells. And a BLM would wear errant while resting. If the RDM wanted, he could put in +fast cast or +healing/enhancing skill in those slots instead.[/quote:f1571]

Why would you put +enhancing or +healing skill in the slots where they dont affect the spells at all? You wont be faster from +enhancing and haste, nor will I heal you more for curing you with something that had healing skill once the caps have been reached. And being 75 for months, makes sure all the caps (healing magic, enhancing, etc) that matter have been reached.

[Taku]

[quote=½pint]

and therefore if you say that the only time BLM will be wearing it is when resting / idle, then you have to accept that the only time that a RDM will be wearing it is when resting / idle also. Unless the BLM or RDM are lazy.

I dont know if i read this correct, but I disagree. I wear this while curing/refreshing/hasting etc, nice peice. I wouldnt wear a dalm resting, i'd wear errant.

And a BLM would wear it while curing / using non-nuke spells. And a BLM would wear errant while resting. If the RDM wanted, he could put in +fast cast or +healing/enhancing skill in those slots instead.[/quote:7e237]

RDM would use this anytime they're not enfeebling/nuking... which is quite often especially cause there's usually multiple RDM in the alliance. It's nice with RDM AF1 hat for fastcast during refresh/haste/heals, and nice with AF2 for the stacking refresh.

I don't think there's +healing/enhancing gear for that slot, and even if there was it wouldn't help at all.

[Xavier]

How come people keep saying +Magic Def makes Stoneskin last longer? Stoneskin is effected by MND and Enhance skill... unless you're referring to damage reduction by wyrm wing's, but I don't see how that would be beneficial in places like KRT exp PT's.

I don't see the reason to kill Nidhogg being to make your KRT exp pt better.

It last longers because you take less base dmg from wing. Its quite good. Stacking magic defense when possible is a nice bonus on mobs that spam magic attacks. I think RDM get to sport dalmatica for +5, af2 hands for +2, and I guess they could use the new earring for another +2, +9 magic defense bonus + whatever the base job trait gives. It adds up. Toss on a shadow ring and prepare to never take dmg again from Fafnir.

the same can be said about black mages wearing a dalmatica instead of a black cloak

I know, its not like blms get this. Oh wait, they do. They already have a body piece with refresh that frees up a head slot.

[Taku]

How come people keep saying +Magic Def makes Stoneskin last longer? Stoneskin is effected by MND and Enhance skill... unless you're referring to damage reduction by wyrm wing's, but I don't see how that would be beneficial in places like KRT exp PT's.

I don't see the reason to kill Nidhogg being to make your KRT exp pt better.

It last longers because you take less base dmg from wing. Its quite good. Stacking magic defense when possible is a nice bonus on mobs that spam magic attacks. I think RDM get to sport dalmatica for +5, af2 hands for +2, and I guess they could use the new earring for another +2, +9 magic defense bonus + whatever the base job trait gives. It adds up. Toss on a shadow ring and prepare to never take dmg again from Fafnir.

Ah, I didn't say it like that, you probably misinterpreted what I meant.

I was replying to:

However.. a BRD in a merit party would make good use of a dalmatica too being that it has the Magic Def+ which will help their stoneskin (and since they pull the longer they can take hits the better) and the more MP and Refresh would allow them to help cure with the RDM.

[Nirokun!]

rdm with af2 hat should have priority on dalm --- to a point (that point being their attendance and dedication to the LS)

everyone else can macro switch for an even refresh effect

[Xavier]

Ah, I didn't say it like that, you probably misinterpreted what I meant.

I was replying to:

However.. a BRD in a merit party would make good use of a dalmatica too being that it has the Magic Def+ which will help their stoneskin (and since they pull the longer they can take hits the better) and the more MP and Refresh would allow them to help cure with the RDM.

Now that I see what you were actually quoting, I agree with you.

The argument that magic defense will help stoneskin while pulling XP mobs is weak.

[Not Kuno]

Any blm who wants dalm is a loot whore unless your capped on dalm. And if you're capped on dalm you must have a really nice bot.

[Genosync]

Ah, someone in my LS found the thread here. Amazing. Whatever, I don't care, honestly, I'd rather not be in an LS that acts like this anyway.

Any BLM or WHM that lots a Dalmatica over a BRD+RDM should be shot in the face.

[mdn]

the same can be said about black mages wearing a dalmatica instead of a black cloak

I know, its not like blms get this. Oh wait, they do. They already have a body piece with refresh that frees up a head slot.

and a black mage with af2 body should probably pass the dalmatica to someone else; just like if af2 body dropped, i'd pass that because i already have a dalmatica.

peole act like every black mage and red mage already own af2, but the fact is that only a small minority have those pieces; blms, for example, have to lot against 5 or 6 (minimum) other blms every time a piece drops (and then they get outlotted by people who have been in the linkshell 2 weeks )