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  1. #1
    CoP Dynamis
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    Ultima

    Okay, before anyone brings out the cards I thought this comunity would have more solid info on this fight. And id rather get it from here rather than a lv30 mnk on Ala.

    The limbus group im part of started as a pick up group, But now with many many central chips we been playing about with Omega.
    So far we won one and lost one (bleh) and from what I gather Ultima is much harder so id like to do my homework. After all my smn would love those hands.

    If anyone knows of any guides such as TP moves, Ali set ups and/or anything else i may need to know please give me a URL or somthing.

    I tryed to search but found many posts about the airship fight.

    I have no doubt we can win this if the right prep is done, so please any help would be great.

    Thanks!

  2. #2
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    HAY I KNOW YOU!

  3. #3

    Russta's Livejournal had some good info a few months back.
    http://russta.livejournal.com/
    Might have to search back a ways.

  4. #4
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    1. NIN tank x3 + BRD
    2. Make sure only 1 NIN is inside AOE range at a time.
    3. Make sure everyone brings a fully-charged reraise item. No excuses. When Ultima starts doing countdowns (at 20% or so), he'll give everyone about 30 secs to GTFO of the room. Anyone left in range will be one-shotted. The first 80% of the fight is (Too weak).
    4. Make sure everyone expects to lose 10-15k xp so that when they only lose 7k, or less if they're a low aggro job, they're happy. In the end, winning is more important than whether you can still equip your gear when you exit Limbus. =P

    Oh yeah, and there are treasure chests in the rooms leading up to Ultima... don't open them if it's your first time. Just go to Ultima and engage. The chests depop, but you don't want to risk a loss when it's a new fight.

  5. #5
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    Disclaimer: I've never fought him before, and my Japanese isn't very good, so some of the following might be wrong.


    Source: http://www5.plala.or.jp/SQR/ff11/monste ... s-4thFloor

    Draw-in
    HT Discharger - Frontal AoE, Damage & Stun
    Antimatter - Damage, Single Target, Ranged
    Equalizer - Aoe, Damage
    Criojet - Frontal AoE, Damage, Paralyze
    Chemical Bomb - Frontal AoE, Slow & Elegy, no damage.
    Smoky Discharger - Frontal AoE, Damage, Petrify
    Turbo Fan - Frontal AoE, Damage, Silence
    Dispension - No damage, Dispel(Everything) & Terror
    Nuclear Waste - AoE, No Damage, all Resists -50
    Hydro Cannon - Frontal AoE, Damage, Poison
    Flame Thrower - Frontal AoE, Damage, Virus
    Wire Cutter - One Person, Damage.

    Other:
    Holy2
    Armor Buster - AoE from targetted person, Damage, Gravity
    Energy Screen - Physical Barrier
    Citadel Buster - 30 second count, then AoEdamage from targetted person.
    Mana Screen - Magical Barrier

  6. #6

    You can survive Citadel Buster, but you need an obescene amount of HP. I took 1612, and if I had put on a couple more pieces of HP gear (RSE belt, Pigeon Earrings for a 100ish HP buffer), I could've lived. Then again, maybe it was a fluke, I'm guessing it was

  7. #7
    Melee Summoner
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    You "can" resist Citadel Buster also, although I'm pretty sure it's nothing to build a strategy around.

    As RDM/WHM I got drawn-in and was the target for it so I just stood there ready to take the death. Instead of taking 2000+ damage it only broke stoneskin for about 200 damage so either it's incredibly random damage or I pretty much outright resisted it.

    The best thing I can recommend for this fight is to save all of your 2 hours and as much damage as you possibly can for when he's approaching 30% and after he uses Citadel Buster the first time and kills somebody just go all out and kill him before he uses it again. Save TP, have full MP, 2 hours ready, do whatever you can to take him out immediately instead of having to lose member after member to Citadel Buster and waste time running in and out of the room.

  8. #8
    Relic Weapons
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    He has some line attack move that can rape your mages if they are too close, he did it like 2-3 times in a row a few fights back and it was one hell of a fight, just be careful and have good placement.

  9. #9
    Hydra
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    Copy of what I put on my LS boards for quick reference. You can massage the numbers slightly and make corrections, but I'll try to put up what I've got initially.



    BRD and SMN buffs were amazing when tanking him. I'm glad that Pit helped me out and basically said in chat what I was saying over Ventrilo. The Fenrir ACC+EVA BP and Mambos are freaking awesome. They were so strong that you could realistically do Ni --> Ni tanking on regular attacks until you finally get ripped apart by one of his moves. Take a NIN and go hard into evading everything.

    I can give a few estimates in terms of damage I observed, fill in anything that I've got listed as innaccurate or totally wrong. My equipment build was strictly an evasion build and did not incorporate damage reduction gear or any focus on resistances. The damage another player takes may vary depending on equipment.
    • Citadel Buster (~2088 DMG) - 30 Second countdown in /say. Counts in 5 second increments until 5 then counts down to zero. No attacks made while Proto-Ultima is counting down. Blast will be centered on current hate target and perform a short range devastating AoE outward from the target.
    • Armor Buster (~400-600 DMG) - Physical AoE, Blinkable and longer range. This move usually took multiple shadows when performed. This move was probably the worst one he does due to the fact that he usually takes a few people down with it.
    • Equalizer (~400-600 DMG) - Physical AoE, Blinkable and longer range. This move usually took multiple shadows when performed. Did this inflict paralyze?
    • Antimatter (~1500 DMG) - Single Target move that bypasses Utsusemi. No idea if this is a hate reset move or not.
    • Wire Cutter (~1200 DMG) - Single Target move that bypasses Utsusemi. Garret took one and kept going. No idea if this is a hate reset move or not. Did this inflict paralyze?
    • AoE Global Dispel + Terrorize - It took off everything except for Signet and "Level Restriction" (instanced zone) including food. The dispel also left mutltiple people terrorized after use.
    • "Slow" - Chemical Bomb? - The slow move pegged an Utsusemi: Ni recast to 1:30 seconds (Like a Roc Massacre Elegy) but was removed by Erase. No idea if this was single target or AoE.
    • Holy II (~900-1100 DMG) - He seemed to do this to random targets. It is blinkable and very easy to spot when it occurs. Whether effect while fighting him was always double Light.
    • 'Silence" - Turbo Fan? - He performed a silence move in that fight that required an echo drop to clear. I'm not sure if the name remains the same from the Airship BC.
    • Nuclear Waste - No icons visible on icon status bar, CNTL-E will show all elemental resists -50.
    • Physical (Particle) Shield/Magic (Mana) Shield - Cycling Physical and Magical invulnerabilities.
    • "Virus" - Flame Thrower? - What inflicted Virus? I had that on me for a short time and never saw it again. If it matches the Airship BC, it should be Flame Thrower.
    • Average hits were pounding me for ~460 per connect as NIN (Comparable to Fenrir).

    Recovering hate after a death took me over a minute to 1:30 (~3 Provokes, Warcry, Berserk, Defender) after I was unweakened as a NIN. It was very hard to recover a high hate position late in the fight as a NIN.

    Here are several screenshots from the fight.

    Proto-Ultima 1
    Proto-Ultima 2
    Proto-Ultima 3

    Proto-Ultima Drops



    Our first fight went with me as the only NIN, since then we've used several and it's gone much better, especially with experience from the first fight.

    You can compare the damage I take on Citadel Buster to someone with an Aegis.

  10. #10
    /lick
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    Bring Reraise.

    Lots of Reraise.

    Reraisers are a plus too, when you don't want to wait the 30 second equip delay on a gorget/hairpin.

    If mages use the Windower, they should get and load the Distance plugin, it will save you insanely much headache.

    All of Proto-Ultima's AoEs have a range of 20.0 units or less, which gives you a safe buffer of give or take 2 units where you can still reach those in melee range of Ultima and Ultima itself but not have to worry about the Dispelga/Terror from hell.

    Don't think any of Ultima's WSs are hate resets, however starting at around 30% when the Citadel Busters start, hate goes completely wild (due in large part to nearly unavoidable, repeated deaths of the tanks). Mages will start to take hate a lot even if they're being careful, but luckily hate jumps all over so badly that unless you work at it, you won't have hate for long.

    Not sure what else to say other than you'll probably lose the first time, but once you are familiar with the fight the 2nd time around is significantly easier.

    Citadel Buster (~2088 DMG) - 30 Second countdown in /say. Counts in 5 second increments until 5 then counts down to zero. No attacks made while Proto-Ultima is counting down. Blast will be centered on current hate target and perform a short range devastating AoE outward from the target.
    One thing to note, it's not 30 seconds, it's significantly quicker. It's a countdown from 30, but 30 to 0 is more like ~20 seconds. 360 degree AoE, moderate range, does not 100% guarantee death, but more than likely does.

    Best way to handle Busters is to designate multiple people (usually RDMs or other people not regularly dying and staying moderately safe) to use the reverse /assist trick constantly to note who has hate starting at around 35%. Often the target will be obvious, and that person stays to die while everyone else runs back the way you came, up the ramps, and out of the room entirely. He does draw in people with hate during the countdown, but that doesn't necessarily indicate the target. People near the top of the hate list should be careful not to get too close to others in the alliance if they can help it in case you mis-guess the target.

    Armor Buster (~400-600 DMG) - Physical AoE, Blinkable and longer range. This move usually took multiple shadows when performed. This move was probably the worst one he does due to the fact that he usually takes a few people down with it.
    This move is ANNOYING. If a mage takes hate and Ultima uses this WS, it'll more than likely severely hurt or kill all the squishies near the target. When done on melees it's more manageable, but inflicts a lot of damage. 400-600 is conservative, it often did 800+ to us.


    Equalizer (~400-600 DMG) - Physical AoE, Blinkable and longer range. This move usually took multiple shadows when performed. Did this inflict paralyze?
    I don't recall this inflicting paralyze, but he uses it sparingly. It's not as bad, on the average, as Armor Buster, but eats a lot of shadows.


    Antimatter (~1500 DMG) - Single Target move that bypasses Utsusemi. No idea if this is a hate reset move or not.
    No hate reset, just a shitton of damage. This WS is why you keep the tank at 100% HP at all times, and why they need to be eating HP food and wearing +HP gear, even at the expense of some -dmg% gear. Our main tank for both fights so far has been an Elvaan NIN who ends up at a shade over 1600 HP with food + gear for this fight, and he's survived all but 1 Antimatter thrown his way. 1500 is a good average for the WS, all your tanks should have that as a minimum if you want them to survive it reliably.


    Wire Cutter (~1200 DMG) - Single Target move that bypasses Utsusemi. Garret took one and kept going. No idea if this is a hate reset move or not. Did this inflict paralyze?
    This one might have inflicted paralyze, I don't recall. It bypasses shadows but does not wipe them, and does less damage than Antimatter. No hate reset, just annoying. It's not that big of a deal though, we've never had any problems from it.


    AoE Global Dispel + Terrorize - It took off everything except for Signet and "Level Restriction" (instanced zone) including food. The dispel also left mutltiple people terrorized after use.
    Ugh. Terror lasts a long time from this, like upwards of 10 seconds if you get unlucky. As I said above, has a range of exactly 20.0 Windower units, so most of your alliance can avoid it. This move is why you need reraiser items, if he uses this WS and is PMSing, you won't have time to equip and wait off a gorget/hairpin.


    "Slow" - Chemical Bomb? - The slow move pegged an Utsusemi: Ni recast to 1:30 seconds (Like a Roc Massacre Elegy) but was removed by Erase. No idea if this was single target or AoE.
    Chemical Bomb is single target. It's an Elegy efect, and will peg out Utsusemi recasts regardless of Haste gear/songs/spells.


    Holy II (~900-1100 DMG) - He seemed to do this to random targets. It is blinkable and very easy to spot when it occurs. Whether effect while fighting him was always double Light.
    We found that about 80% of the casts were targeted on the tank our last fight, but he tends to toss this at whoever is irking him at the moment (i.e. if you do something to generate a spike of hate, even if it's not enough to move you to the top of the hate list, you might get a Holy II present). Shell 4 decimates Holy 2, as long as you keep buffed it's not a big deal. 900-1100 damage is a little high, in my experience, 400-600 is a more normal number for it.


    'Silence" - Turbo Fan? - He performed a silence move in that fight that required an echo drop to clear. I'm not sure if the name remains the same from the Airship BC.
    That name is correct. Turbo Fan is single target, does damage, and silences.


    Nuclear Waste - No icons visible on icon status bar, CNTL-E will show all elemental resists -50.
    This cannot be dispelled. It's not a major concern, and there's nothing you can do about it anyway.


    Physical (Particle) Shield/Magic (Mana) Shield - Cycling Physical and Magical invulnerabilities.
    Starting at around 40% or so, one of these two will be up at all times. They will never be up simultaneously, however.


    "Virus" - Flame Thrower? - What inflicted Virus? I had that on me for a short time and never saw it again. If it matches the Airship BC, it should be Flame Thrower.
    You're correct, Flame Thrower inflicts Virus. Fairly rarely used, fairly manageable damage. I believe this one is cone based instead of single target, however.

  11. #11
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    Oh I forgot, it's never invincible to Chi Blast. ^^

    (Ninja edit for wording.)

  12. #12
    A. Body
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    can PLD/NIN work?

  13. #13
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    Regarding Nuclear Waste, it was more annoying when Ultima did that in the CoP mission BC, since he'd always use that and follow up with an elemental attack like Turbo Fan, which always did a hell of a lot of damage compared to your HP at level 60. It pretty much reinforces the point of keeping tank HP at 100% at all times, since you surely won't be resisting anything.

    Quote Originally Posted by GRT
    can PLD/NIN work?
    We've done PLD/NIN in tandem with other ninjas and warriors. It works well enough to win.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by GRT
    can PLD/NIN work?
    I'm not sure how well PLD/NIN will work with large fluctuations in hate for many members of the alliance and a limited amount of time in which to kill Ultima. I wouldn't be comfortable going in with PLD/NIN's only for a first shot at the fight, unless there's a relic horn in the tank PT.

  15. #15
    Nidhogg
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    Proto-Ultima is a pretty cool fight, and we were able to pull it off first try with the proper preparation.

    There's some pretty good info on this thread already, so I'll keep this pretty brief...

    About Armor Buster: I really think 400-600 damage is an understatement. It was more like 400-600 through stoneskin. I got killed by it twice with full stoneskin up. This is his most dangerous attack, so watch out for it.

    Citadel Buster: Whoever has hate is going to die. (Our Galka PLD could survive it with Stoneskin up from Titan, but it's rare). Everyone should simply leave the room when this occurs. Dont even stay close and risk it once the countdown reaches 10. Before it gets to 10, you should pound Ultima. This is your best chance to cause damage, so don't waste it. He won't fight back during Citadel Buster, so you're free to do heavy damage.

    Also, if you're a damage class, like BLM, and you're the target for Citadel Buster...unload into it. Who cares about hate, you're going to die anyways.

    Ultima will ALWAYS use Fan attacks after Nuclear Waste. The fans are pretty nasty.

    Theres a fan for most elements, and each sticks you with a nasty effect.
    Water - Poison: This is BAD. Everyone should have antidotes in case he does this when the tanks are dead due to Citadel Buster...Strongest poison I've seen so far.
    Ice - Paralyze: Tough paralyze, on the same level as Ice Spikes...
    Earth - Petrify: Stona ftw
    Fire - Plague: Not a big deal, just viruna it quickly on people who rely on MP...
    Wind - Silence: Keep echo drops in case this hits the mages
    Thunder - ???: Never saw this one


    On earlier posts on this forum, people said he would rotate resists during Citadel Buster...this isn't true. Ultima really doesn't "rotate" resists at all. If he uses Energy Screen, he's immune to phys, if he uses Mana Screen, he's immune to magic. He won't use both at once, and they are just TP attacks. He'll often have neither up.


    About tanks: I think PLD/WAR is the way to go here. We used PLD/WARx2 to tank. NIN/WAR is really no good. All it takes is an Antimatter to end the tank's life, which is pretty sucky. PLD/NIN is really good early on...but once tanks start randomly dying, a PLD/NIN will struggle to gain hate back the instant they unweaken, whereas a PLD/WAR wont have much difficulty.

  16. #16
    A. Body
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    thx for the good info

    and i'm assuming thunder screen would be stun?

    another question: how long do the screens last? can you tell when the physical/magical immunity wears off?

  17. #17
    Nidhogg
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    They seemed to last 45s-1min. Just cast a cheap spell like Stone to see when they wear.

  18. #18
    Very Sexy Nerd
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    PLD/NIN has been very effective for me. My LS uses NIN+PLD/NIN duo tanks (double taru ftw) with a PLD/WAR in reserve for when he starts blowing people up.

    People already covered the rest of the fight, so no need to repeat it. It's not hard, you might wipe 1st run but don't let it discourage you, it's really simple when you have a good understanding of how the battle goes.

  19. #19
    CoP Dynamis
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    Thanks for the info <3

  20. #20
    Sea Torques
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    AoE Terror+Dispel move is called Disseverment or something like that, he doesnt use it much but its definetly a pain in the ass at lower health

    Citadel Buster is a magic attack, with enough -% magic armor, stoneskin, and phalanx...you can survive it. I took 2166 damage from one i ate with Shell III up and nothing else, no -% magic armor on. It only draws in the person who has hate, but it can CHANGE whoever it's drawing in while he's doing the countdown...this means whenever you see the countdown you run the fuck away and dont do anything that will grab hate.

    He goes through 3 phases, first one he just uses "weak" TP moves like Wirecutter, Nuclear Waste, Flamethrower...etc. Second phase he uses his "strong" TP moves from the BC battle...Antimatter + Equalizer, he starts using Holy II frequently here, along with that AoE terror move. Third stage he stops using his "strong" TP moves and starts using Armor Buster, a few others and Citadel Buster.

    You cant pull him out of that square area he appears in, he'll draw in any mage outside of his "zone" if they grab hate and he shoots Holy II at random people kinda like Amaltheia does....fight it with 3 tanks, a balanced DD with melee/BLM, and like 3 WHMs...he gets really nasty at low health.

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