lol cops in cali

[merper]

ALL troops do love their country tho and will fight and possibly die to protect the freedoms many people take for granted. Give respect where it is so deserved. There are people thousands of miles away protecting you (Americans) from impending terror. They do so because they love the US and not because they love Bush.

I really realllllllly hope that was sarcasm.

[Sparky]

ALL troops do love their country tho and will fight and possibly die to protect the freedoms many people take for granted. Give respect where it is so deserved. There are people thousands of miles away protecting you (Americans) from impending terror. They do so because they love the US and not because they love Bush.

I really realllllllly hope that was sarcasm.

It wasnt sarcasim.... Troops deserve our prayers and respect. They do the job that matters most. Protect and Serve FTW

[merper]

Ok, so what are they protecting us from by being in Iraq? Even if you want to call terrorism a grave national threat(lol), how many terrorist attacks on the US were perpetrated by Iraqi nationals?

If you are trying to make the slightly more intelligent argument(which I doubt considering your apparent brainwashing) and say troops were sent to maintain stability of the region in favor of providing energy security:

True or false. Iraq now produces more oil than it did pre-invasion.

I dare you to stop spewing jingoistic rhetoric for a second and think. If Bush ordered troops to perform a genocide would the troops still deserve respect, because it's the administration's decision not theirs? Well if you said no(which I'm hoping you're sane enough to do) then the same applies for oh say perpuating a war started on false pretenses or with no apparent goal, and signing up knowing that this is exactly what you are doing.

[Sparky]

Ok, so what are they protecting us from by being in Iraq? Even if you want to call terrorism a grave national threat(lol), how many terrorist attacks on the US were perpetrated by Iraqi nationals?

If you are trying to make the slightly more intelligent argument(which I doubt considering your apparent brainwashing) and say troops were sent to maintain stability of the region in favor of providing energy security:

True or false. Iraq now produces more oil than it did pre-invasion.

I dare you to stop spewing jingoistic rhetoric for a second and think. If Bush ordered troops to perform a genocide would the troops still deserve respect, because it's the administration's decision not theirs? Well if you said no(which I'm hoping you're sane enough to do) then the same applies for oh say perpuating a war started on false pretenses or with no apparent goal, and signing up knowing that this is exactly what you are doing.

It is not the Soldiers job to agree or disagree with the position of this administration. They made an oath under God to obey the Commander in Chief and to protect the United States of America. This oath is not taken because they want more oil for the US, or because they want Sadam in, or out, of power, they take the oath to SERVE AND PROTECT the United States. It is not the military's right nor their job to question the decisions of the President. It is the job of Congress and the Supreme Court to make sure that the President is leading in a way that follows the laws of this country. The Troops are to be respected because they fight the fight that most americans wont. They perform a job that others would shy away from in fear. That is why they deserve respect.


You bring up 2 different subjects..... The War on Terror.... and Respect for the Military... In my view these are 2 very different subjects. My comments to you were based solely on your comment that the soldiers dont deserve respect. That is a very sad comment to make imo

[merper]

The Troops are to be respected because they fight the fight that no americans should.

Fixed.

If you sign up for the military today, where do you think you are going to be sent? You CAN'T FEIGN IGNORANCE AT THIS POINT!! You know exactly what is going to happen to you, you know exactly what decisions the administration has made. You know exactly what you are supporting at this point. They are not protecting anyone by being there, they are just dying needlessly.

Dying for no reason does not merit anyone respect, and it certainly doesn't mean they should get more respect than anyone back home. Doctors save lives; they deserve respect. Scientists cure diseases; they deserve respect. Teachers inspire students to do great things; they deserve respect. American soldiers currently die, not to prevent the creation of WMDs, not to stop terrorists numbers from growing, not for any clear reason at all. And this merits respect beyond the first three groups of people? I call BS.

Soldiers in WW2 had a clear reason to fight, had a clear goal and were drafted, forced into services. Yet, they gave their lives to stop the forces of fascism from spreading. They deserve respect.

Yet the soldiers who sign up now are volunteering their lives for what? If there was a draft, I can see some sort of excuse, but they are willingly volunteering to participate in a useless occupation.

If all these soldiers came home right now, we would have every single freedom we still have today, and our country would be in as good or more likely better shape with much of the $650B military budget being spent on more useful things.

I've said it before, but again, I don't want them to die, but I have 0 support for what they do and there is no reason that they merit any special respect above the average person at this point.

[Sparky]

They do not know where they are going. Yes there is a good chance after basic that they might end up in iraq, but that isnt for certain. News Flash ..... We do have Military Forces in other parts of the world.

[Okan]

American soldiers currently die, not to prevent the creation of WMDs, not to stop terrorists numbers from growing, not for any clear reason at all. And this merits respect beyond the first three groups of people? I call BS.

Soldiers in WW2 had a clear reason to fight, had a clear goal and were drafted, forced into services. Yet, they gave their lives to stop the forces of fascism from spreading. They deserve respect.

Yet the soldiers who sign up now are volunteering their lives for what? If there was a draft, I can see some sort of excuse, but they are willingly volunteering to participate in a useless occupation.

If all these soldiers came home right now, we would have every single freedom we still have today, and our country would be in as good or more likely better shape with much of the $650B military budget being spent on more useful things.

I've said it before, but again, I don't want them to die, but I have 0 support for what they do and there is no reason that they merit any special respect above the average person at this point.

I'm sorry, but I must have missed the part when I signed up that said "You can chose if you go to Iraq or not."

American soldiers sign up to defend the country, but they're not given a choice as to where or what they defend.

The SOLDIERS deserve respect. They don't get a fucking choice in what they're doing. In the "Uniform Code of Military Justice" (The laws of the military)it is written that, in a time of war, if you disobey a command, you *can* be shot by your superior. Just to make you think about it.

Officer> Hey Private, take off your mask and see if it's safe.
Private> Well, shit. I don't got a choice. Take off my mask and see if I die or stand around and get shot and die... Tough decision.

[djzombie]

It is not my job to question why, only to do and die. Semper Fidelis.

[BRP]

I find it extremely pathetic if someone can't show respect for soldiers. You can hate Presidents and politicians all you want, but soldiers, no matter how they differ and how unperfect they are, deserve respect. That, that.

[merper]

Yes there is a good chance after basic that they might end up in iraq, but that isnt for certain

Good chance = overwhelming majority. Does anyone sign up now, thinking you're not going to be sent to Iraq?

American soldiers sign up to defend the country, but they're not given a choice as to where or what they defend

See above.

if you disobey a command, you *can* be shot by your superior. Just to make you think about it.

If someone or some people had the courage to just sit down in the middle of camp and say he wasn't going to take part in a war that had no purpose, and he got shot or sent to guantanomo, what do you think that would do to already dismal recruitment quotas?

This country hasn't remotely needed external defense since WW2. The mccarthy witchhunt posed a much greater threat to our liberties than vietnam ever did. If someone(oh let's say canada) decided to invade tomorrow, I would be the first to sign up, but as it stands now, there is no military threat to the US whatsoever. So whatever people are dying for it's certainly not for our freedoms or security.

It is not my job to question why, only to do and die. Semper Fidelis.

Are you a robot or a human? You should never go against what you believe, even if obeying orders is easier. If you truly think you are fighting for "freedom" then I suggest you open your eyes.

I find it extremely pathetic if someone can't show respect for soldiers

I find it extremely pathetic that someone would carry out orders that they know are wrong, and know don't help the country that they wanted to defend. So basically you are saying we should respect people who are either too ignorant to know what they are doing does little for their countrymen or who know what they are doing is wrong, yet do it anyway?

Let me sum this up:
If you join now, you join knowing that you will almost certainly go to Iraq or some other place where we're fighting the "war on terror", thus you are CHOOSING to acknowledge that there is such a war, that fighting it actually serves some purpose and that you are willing to take part in this fight. Don't play around. That is what you are buying into if you sign up today.

The people who signed up before 9/11 not knowing the mess they were getting into, and the people who signed up to the couple months after Iraq when everyone was worked up into this patriotic frenzy, deserve no criticism. It's hard to disagree when you're surrounded by people carrying big guns, I agree. I have respect for these people(but not above anyone helping people back home); they thought their nation needed them and they answered the call without hesitation. BUT if you signed up after you were doing it knowing full well what was going on, and you think you can just say, "It's cause I want to defend my country" when you are fully aware that it is doing no such thing, then no, I don't see why you should merit any special respect. Blind faith is nothing to be proud of.

[Siatdiat]

I joined the Marine Corps April 2001, about 5 months before September 11th. Do i think i deserve respect for that? Not really. Have i gotten any respect since i got out for it? Not really. When your getting out they make a deal about having a copy of your dd214 and say that when you apply for a job people will want to see it and look at the reenlistment code, in truth i always had it handy at interviews but they'd never ask, and if someone saw it and asked they'd be like "Oh... nah we dont need to see that." Honestly i think if anything my military history has hurt me when trying to get a job. Either they think you must be good at following orders and dealing with bullshit so they ride your ass from day one, or they have some personal hostility towards anyone who was in the military so they dont hire me in the first place. Also, ill tell you right now that in the Marines as a white guy, i wasnt in the majority, the Marines is made up of black, hispanic, asian, and white americans, sometimes they arent actually naturalized citizens yet, and are joining so that about a year before they get out they can become american citizens. I personally was lucky, missed a 7 month float to the middle east by about 5 days. I have an irl friend who was a legal specialist, he got sent over there with his unit and since they dont really need to have alot of legal shit done he was sent to work as a MP for most of it. He has the same response as me, noone gives a shit, and if people ever do seem to give a shit its all talk, b/c really in a country where everything is easy to get, surviving is easy, and people are so comfortable that all they can think of to create some excitement in their dull and complacent life is to talk drama on forums, who really has a grasp of what anything is really worth? Now that im out and back home i regret joining, and i can promise you though i may have been willing to do it when i first signed up, the fuck if id die for any of you right now.

P.S. The current wars we are participating in are clearly bullshit its amazing to me that alot of people dont seem to realize this glaring reality... But theres alot of young guys over there in a rough spot, and all they wanted was some money for college or to follow in a family tradition of military service, wether you agree with them being there or not, pray for them.

[BRP]

You are an idiot. You fail to realize that not every soldier is Iraq, but there are hundreds of thousands of soldiers around the world from Rome to Japan.

You also don't know what the hell you are talking about. Iraq can be considered an unworthy war, but it is not immoral. They are not being ordered to kill children or rape women like the Japanese were in World War II. A soldier doesn't always believes in what his country is doing, but he will always believe in his country. There is a pride one gets from doing so, its not 'blind faith' or otherwise. And believe it or not, the Middle East will come back to haunt us if it is just ignored. Everyday it seems they are getting worst, getting access to nuclear missles and burning down embassies(that don't even involve us). They are uneducated and being oppressed in several situations. The last time the US wanted to remain out of world matters, Hitler almost took over Europe. As the hyper-power of the world, its our job to watch over it.

The fact is soldiers are people, no matter who they are leading under. Your dislike of the current admistration should have nothing to do with that. They are fighting a tough war(without raping people or killing children), being caught in the middle of a foolish president and a group of people who are self-inflicting.

Of course, like making fun of black people, anything is acceptable over the internet because they can't kick your ass.

[merper]

You are an idiot. You fail to realize that not every soldier is Iraq, but there are hundreds of thousands of soldiers around the world from Rome to Japan.

Does anyone sign up now, thinking you're not going to be sent to Iraq?

And believe it or not, the Middle East will come back to haunt us if it is just ignored. Everyday it seems they are getting worst, getting access to nuclear missles and burning down embassies(that don't even involve us).

God, you still don't get it do you? Sending an army in to deal with domestic issues has done little good. It's being shown every day that the so called "nation building" we were supposed to do is being done poorly and is accomplishing very little, while good plans that are being recommended by historians and cultural experts are rejected. HOW HAS ANYTHING THAT THE ARMY DONE HELPED MATTERS???? Question for you. Which middle eastern country did most of the terrorists of 9/11 come from? 2nd question. Which oppresive monarchical country do we support and have a base in?

A soldier doesn't always believes in what his country is doing, but he will always believe in his country. There is a pride one gets from doing so, its not 'blind faith' or otherwise

That's the exact definition of blind faith, believing in something when it's actions say otherwise. Just because it's a mentality that people buy into doesn't mean that is a good thing. Yeah sure you can take pride in that if you are a nationalistic closed minded idiot such as yourself.

They are fighting a tough war(without raping people or killing children) being caught in the middle of a foolish president and a group of people who are self-inflicting

So they should be proud that they manage to get through the day without raping anyone just because they are in a situation that they don't want to be in? Great argument. There is 0 pride in fighting for something you know to be accomplishing nothing.

Of course, like making fun of black people, anything is acceptable over the internet because they can't kick your ass.

Physical threats. Nice.

[BRP]

Let me reword that whole 'blind faith' thing then.

Some soldiers don't agree with the motives of the leader or the way the country is being run exactly, but they still respect the fact that they are indeed helping a cause that is not favorable, and do it for the greater good. The way you said "following orders that they believe is wrong" made it seem like it was Nagking(spelling might be off), where soldiers were told to rape every woman(and kill them and everyone else).

Americans are helping. You can't just free a nation and then let them be to fall into chaos. President Bush, as obvious as this is, horrible with foreign policy(and I don't recall good in any other kind of policies either). Most importantly don't forget: Soldiers =/= Bush. They are not doing it for that man at all. They are doing it for their country, because someday, democracy in the Middle East, no matter how distant, will spread world peace. Soldiers, even if they do something you don't believe in, are risking their lives for something they believe in(or at least a few of them are). That demands respect.

Lastly, that wasn't so much a physical threat, as I'm neither black or a soldier, but its true about people posting very offensive topics. I'm sure a soldier who had a rough time would be more than just a little upset from hearing that. I know I was sourly disgusted by it, even if it was just from a computer screen.

[merper]

They are doing it for their country, because someday, democracy in the Middle East, no matter how distant, will spread world peace.

And the proof of this happening is where exactly? If anything the US troops in Iraq have radicalized nearby nations into even more radical fundamentalism. Take Iran or perhaps you want to look at the election of Hamas in Palestine. You can't make bs propaganda statements like this when all the evidence points to the contrary. There are many good plans for nation building. I've read several that would work that actually take into account the culture and history of the region, but none of them are being applied, so even if you want to ignore the fact we entered the war under false pretenses you can't even say we are building a strong nation now that we're there.

Soldiers, even if they do something you don't believe in, are risking their lives for something they believe in(or at least a few of them are). That demands respect.

Doing something you believe in doesn't automtically net you respect....
I bet the unibomber thought he was doing something good. Am I saying that US troops are bombing innocent people for fun? No, I'm just saying the argument that doing something that you believe is right means that the action merits respect doesn't hold up to testing. Sure you've heard the saying "The road to hell is paved with good intentions." (And no, that doesn't mean I believe they're going to hell.... I'm not even christian)

And if the truth offends you well, the truth is often very hard to accept. Is it the effort that counts or the end result? I find it very hard to just say "Oh they just meant well" in a matter as important as global stability.

[Gafgarionn]

I don't really understand how anyone can say the war is pointless when we've just liberated an entire country from a dictator. I mean, I'm not informed enough about the subject to make a safe conclusion on whether it has made America safer, but people seem to forget that we actually helped that country.

[Anyway]

The problem I have with it is this. It's not that the war is pointless. It's that we make these soldiers over there out to be heros. They're heros alright, but not to me, not to us, not to our country, but to Iraqis. They're not there saving us, they're not there defending our freedom so how does it make them heros to me?

Call me a dick, call me callous, call me what you want but I just refuse to worship these people fighting for other people, not us. Let the Iraqis idolize them.

[Gafgarionn]

The problem I have with it is this. It's not that the war is pointless. It's that we make these soldiers over there out to be heros. They're heros alright, but not to me, not to us, not to our country, but to Iraqis. They're not there saving us, they're not there defending our freedom so how does it make them heros to me?

Call me a dick, call me callous, call me what you want but I just refuse to worship these people fighting for other people, not us. Let the Iraqis idolize them.

Aren't you the one that was trying to convince me that America wasn't part of a "group", but we're instead all united as humans? Shouldn't this be a victory for everyone, then?

Edit: Or are you trying to say that as long as the results don't have some sort of direct impact on you, you don't care?

[Anyway]

They're killing people are they not? We're killing people to stop other people from killing people. Nobody is winning in my eyes.

[Gafgarionn]

Isn't that the entire idea behind the death penalty?