Fanfest Dev Panel #2: Jobs: PUPPETMASTER

[Not Kuno]

They didnt say they're nerfing the dmg; just giving people a reason to use something else more. It sounds to me they're fixing 2h weapons.

[Kaylia]

Deakka. I know how MNK rely on WAR sub to deal damage, there is no question here. However, /nin is still a decent sub in many solo situation, or situation where mnk/war would be stuck with hate.

A MNK/WAR is some sort of mp sponge, and subbing nin can fix that by losing some attack power to make them really good at survival. There is many monsters you can't tank efficiently on War/nin, unless you've elegy and haste, and that's why I'm saying mnk/nin is a better tank on small stuff since they can recast blink a lot more easily.

You give monk way too much credit...

The only monks that WANT to sub nin are the ones who know they are fighting shit with brutal AOE that can be absorbed by Utsu (where the extra security outweighs the offensive loss), or are fuckin retards.

It depend what is your setup and what tank you have. Is DD important? Is hate management important? Do you have enough healer?

Obviously, in the perfect setup, I would rather have a Mnk come as mnk/war to DD, but when I played the game, I found myself doing stuff with unconventional setup more often than not (ie: not enough healer).


Also, imagine any party situation where there is 1 war/nin and 1 mnk/war. What will happen when you start the fight? War/nin will deal average damage since he is constantly recasting utsusemi, and mnk/war will get hate, take a few hit and drain mp. If the fight is short, than good for the party, it didn't matter. If the fight has a difficulty level above average, it might have been a lot more efficient to simply have both sub nin and trade hate

[Kaylia]

What are they really going to do? Give warriors a job trait that negates the dual wield trait? Prevent warriors from casting utsusemi? Anything they could do that would ruin /nin for war, but not for any other job, would need something retarded to happen.

Isn't warrior the only job that sub ninja efficiently anyway?

Thf? They are better with war sub 90% of the time
Rng? They still get their off hand bonus, and war is probably a better sub now anyway.

- They said WAR/NIN is too strong, and want to give people more reasons to sub other jobs.

This is the reason why people think there might be a nerf (If the quote is exact). I mean, if WAR/NIN is too strong, does that mean they will give us something even stronger, or as strong to make us sub something else?

I wouldn't sub something weaker for sure, even if it's better than it currently is.

[Xavier]

What are they really going to do? Give warriors a job trait that negates the dual wield trait? Prevent warriors from casting utsusemi? Anything they could do that would ruin /nin for war, but not for any other job, would need something retarded to happen.

Isn't warrior the only job that sub ninja efficiently anyway?

drk/nin does it pretty well.

but you skipped the "what could they possibly do" part of the quote.

[Kaylia]

What are they really going to do? Give warriors a job trait that negates the dual wield trait? Prevent warriors from casting utsusemi? Anything they could do that would ruin /nin for war, but not for any other job, would need something retarded to happen.

Isn't warrior the only job that sub ninja efficiently anyway?

drk/nin does it pretty well.

but you skipped the "what could they possibly do" part of the quote.

True, I forgot about them. However, if they make scythe good like they said they would, subbing nin might not be as interesting for them.


What I meant is changing dual wield for subjob will only affect War because other job don't need DW as much. Reduce delay bonus by 5%, and war/nin is the only one that will really suffer from the nerf, without changing the mechanic too much.

[Ichthyos]

Hey Eddie, you at the fan festival right now?

Yup!

[freja]

You give monk way too much credit...

The only monks that WANT to sub nin are the ones who know they are fighting shit with brutal AOE that can be absorbed by Utsu (where the extra security outweighs the offensive loss), or are fuckin retards.

I sub nin as a mnk almost everywhere I go. The only time I even bother subbing war anymore is KRT parties.

Limbus, farming runs, soloing, whatever. I've got most of the dream mnk gear in the game, so whenever I sub warrior I'm almost a guaranteed mp sponge.

[XxSlusherxx]

Regardless of all your mnk vs. war arguments, if they make it so increaing your weapon damge over 50 has a stong effect, wars will lol sub thf, drks will lol use scythe, and drgs will lol pwn everything with love halbred.

[NynJa]

You give monk way too much credit...

The only monks that WANT to sub nin are the ones who know they are fighting shit with brutal AOE that can be absorbed by Utsu (where the extra security outweighs the offensive loss), or are fuckin retards.

I sub nin as a mnk almost everywhere I go. The only time I even bother subbing war anymore is KRT parties.

Limbus, farming runs, soloing, whatever. I've got most of the dream mnk gear in the game, so whenever I sub warrior I'm almost a guaranteed mp sponge.

If you need /nin in each and every limbus area, your tanks suck

[Kaylia]

If your mnk can't pull hate, you mnk suck?

[Razz]

You give monk way too much credit...

The only monks that WANT to sub nin are the ones who know they are fighting shit with brutal AOE that can be absorbed by Utsu (where the extra security outweighs the offensive loss), or are fuckin retards.

I sub nin as a mnk almost everywhere I go. The only time I even bother subbing war anymore is KRT parties.

Limbus, farming runs, soloing, whatever. I've got most of the dream mnk gear in the game, so whenever I sub warrior I'm almost a guaranteed mp sponge.

If you need /nin in each and every limbus area, your tanks suck

thats bullshit lol I can sub war on my drk and die instantly...its just not smart

do you even have a DD or are you pulling an allakazham on us?

[NynJa]

You give monk way too much credit...

The only monks that WANT to sub nin are the ones who know they are fighting shit with brutal AOE that can be absorbed by Utsu (where the extra security outweighs the offensive loss), or are fuckin retards.

I sub nin as a mnk almost everywhere I go. The only time I even bother subbing war anymore is KRT parties.

Limbus, farming runs, soloing, whatever. I've got most of the dream mnk gear in the game, so whenever I sub warrior I'm almost a guaranteed mp sponge.

If you need /nin in each and every limbus area, your tanks suck

thats bullshit lol I can sub war on my drk and die instantly...its just not smart

do you even have a DD or are you pulling an allakazham on us?

I believe I'm THF and MNK 75...
let me check.

Hmm, yeah, I think so. But I'm allakazam nub and I dont know how to read fucking english, so that MNK might be DRG and I hacked the game to wear Shura Legs and Melee stuff on my DRG.



Maybe you pull hate because you go
"HAY GUYZ LOL"
*Provoke*
*Stun*
*Last Resort*
*Souleater Guillotine*
"OMG U FAGZ HOLD HATE"

[Kaylia]

Or maybe you could try to clarify your point instead of telling us what you are

[NynJa]

Or maybe you could try to clarify your point instead of telling us what you are

maybe you could try working on your reading comprehension.

do you even have a DD or are you pulling an allakazham on us?

I believe I'm THF and MNK 75...
let me check.

Hmm, yeah, I think so. But I'm allakazam nub and I dont know how to read fucking english, so that MNK might be DRG and I hacked the game to wear Shura Legs and Melee stuff on my DRG.

[Kaylia]

Or maybe you could try to clarify your point instead of telling us what you are

maybe you could try working on your reading comprehension.

do you even have a DD or are you pulling an allakazham on us?

I believe I'm THF and MNK 75...
let me check.

Hmm, yeah, I think so. But I'm allakazam nub and I dont know how to read fucking english, so that MNK might be DRG and I hacked the game to wear Shura Legs and Melee stuff on my DRG.

I'm not talking about that.... You point something, we disagree, but instead of defending your idea, you just reply to the flamme.

If you need /nin in each and every limbus area, your tanks suck

Unless you're talking about a limbus where melee suck, how can you not pull hate as a mnk going all out on monster? As good as tank are, they shouldnt be able to keep monster away from away.

[NynJa]

Or maybe you could try to clarify your point instead of telling us what you are

maybe you could try working on your reading comprehension.

do you even have a DD or are you pulling an allakazham on us?

I believe I'm THF and MNK 75...
let me check.

Hmm, yeah, I think so. But I'm allakazam nub and I dont know how to read fucking english, so that MNK might be DRG and I hacked the game to wear Shura Legs and Melee stuff on my DRG.

I'm not talking about that.... You point something, we disagree, but instead of defending your idea, you just reply to the flamme.

If you need /nin in each and every limbus area, your tanks suck

Unless you're talking about a limbus where melee suck, how can you not pull hate as a mnk going all out on monster? As good as tank are, they shouldnt be able to keep monster away from away.

if you're stupid about how you play and go "OMG BEEG DAMAJ" and open a fight with asuran fists, you deserve to die.

Too bad a monk cant exactly "go all out" without zerk, since that constitutes a portion of their dmg, alongside attack bonuses and double attack...

I've gone to limbus as mnk twice, I didnt die (I normally go blm). Its not because I'm "gimp", but its because I've got a head on my shoulders. The only time I came close to dying was that area with the gigas and monkeys with that AOE claw shit that did like 900 dmg. Even that floor with the pots, I went all out counterstance zerk (which really should be on with counterstance anyways) just opening with asuran...I had no problem and my mages werent bitching at me for sponging.


/nin hinders monk a lot more than it benefits in the long run. If you are seriously constantly pulling hate on mnk, you are doing something very wrong. You are pulling hate, not because you're dealing sufficient damage to pull hate, but because you're playing like a fucking retard.

[Kaylia]

if you're stupid about how you play and go "OMG BEEG DAMAJ" and open a fight with asuran fists, you deserve to die.

Too bad a monk cant exactly "go all out" without zerk, since that constitutes a portion of their dmg, alongside attack bonuses and double attack...

I've gone to limbus as mnk twice, I didnt die (I normally go blm). Its not because I'm "gimp", but its because I've got a head on my shoulders. The only time I came close to dying was that area with the gigas and monkeys with that AOE claw shit that did like 900 dmg. Even that floor with the pots, I went all out counterstance zerk (which really should be on with counterstance anyways) just opening with asuran...I had no problem and my mages werent bitching at me for sponging.

Are you telling me you have to hold your damage as mnk/war? This is exactly the reason why you should be subbing nin when it happens. Well, I'm glad to hear you play BLM most of the time, other job might be too complicate for you.

/nin hinders monk a lot more than it benefits in the long run. If you are seriously constantly pulling hate on mnk, you are doing something very wrong. You are pulling hate, not because you're dealing sufficient damage to pull hate, but because you're playing like a fucking retard.

Are we talking about the same MNK job? With merit and good gear? Or one with brown belt who just dinged 75?

Mnk and War in limbus will always pull hate. If you don't have the whm to make up for the damage they take, /ni, otherwise, go for dmg.

[Lockecole]

So lemme get this straight. Subbing NIN is gimp, but gimping your damage by not spamming TP on /WAR isn't? Face it...if you have to hold back in order to not pull hate on /WAR in certain situations, then /NIN isn't that bad of a choice if you really think about it.

[Remus]

MNK/NIN can pull hate without even using a single weapon skill. I think you have things backwards here... or it just means your Monk is gimp, but I don't want to make that assumption.

[freja]

With double minuet and attack food, I doubt having berserk up will make or break the amount of damage that I can put out. Having a brutal earring will put me in the same league with warrior sub monks without one.

Yes I will do more damage with warrior sub than with ninja sub. But in my own personal experience having shadows up all the time is far more valuable than having berserk up and an extra bit of double attack.

Obviously you disagree. More power to you. That doesn't mean using another option makes me a fucking moron, like you so lovingly stated.