Inflation issues, is it really inflation that bothers us?

[Quicklet]

I think the bigger issue isn't that RMT exists, though it would be nice if it were minimized (realistically it will never go away completely), it's that the supply of items in the game hasn't kept up with the demand of more players hitting high levels, and that almost anything can be bought for enough gil, including EX items off HNMs.

SE has made a lot of good steps in making the lower level items like Leaping Boots, Emperor Hairpin, and Peacock Charm available in EX form or through BCs, but it still hasn't done that with a lot of the higher level items.

Some examples:
-3King Abjurations and the majority of cursed materials (let's assume most rare synth items still come off of HNMs and not from BCNMs) are still available at the same rate they were when they first came out, meanwhile not only are old players leveling up new jobs to 75, but new players are hitting 75 as well.

-CoP had very little expansion when it came to creating new supplies for items. There aren't nearly as many "major" HNMs in CoP as there were with Zilart, and definitely not as many minor HNMs as compared with the tons and tons you find in Zilart areas. If sea were much more similar to sky (100% pop item drops and synth item drops from each Jailer), I think you'd see at least a little more easing of price inflation.

-Seven very good items are still locked up in an unrealistic HNM encounter, including a replacement to Speed Belt which still comes off of a LV55 NM. A lot of CoP items in general have a very large time investment compared to Zilart items and usually aren't any better.

The good news is that SE did get some things right through new BCNMs, ENMs, Limbus, etc. I think the Limbus model is possibly the best I've seen in a long time, because it combines 3 aspects of loot (AF upgrades, currency purchases of completely new items, and 2 sets of HNM gear) in one activity that everyone can participate in. Sure, people can RMT ancient currency if they want, but it doesn't prevent other people from getting enough to get items on their own.

The bad news is that SE is afraid of mudflation to the point that they're very reluctant to add better gear for high level players, which as we saw from CoP just meant that players would keep crowding around the old content without focusing as much on the new content.

Hopefully, if Assault and Beseiged are structured like Limbus where there are multiple ways to earn items, and those items are worth putting the time in as opposed to existing items, the game will move in a positive direction and the problems of inflation and RMT will go down as people can go out and get their own items more easily. If not, oh well.

[epigram]

Back in 2003 I was camping LOO and selling Kraken Clubs for 20 mil, stealling money from my ls and camping Fafnir with zero competition w

OMG AVATAR AMONEY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! L333333333t

You seemed to forgot some of your income.

[Demetrios]

d4 and log off from an event lately?wwwwwwwwwwwwww

[epigram]

Nah, my Dad hasn't been shot at lately, and I've actually been getting some sleep? Thanks for your concern though.

[Demetrios]

yeah your dad, aka branwen

[epigram]

No, my father was and is a defense department contractor in Iraq.

[Demetrios]

yes, you didn't go emo and start d4ing at events when branwen rejected you for belmont ('-'*)

[epigram]

No, it was a bit before that. Yeah branwen had a bit to play in it, but so what. She found a guy that she liked and I'm happy for her, I've talked to her a few times since leaving and she seems to be doing all right.

[Dezzimal]

<galka porn>

[Septimus]

<galka porn>

For as much as I would like to continue that train of thought, I have to agree with Quicklet.

Even if they don't want to add in gear that is better than abjuration armor, they could have at least made abjurations drop off of jailers. (And Ridills too, damn it.) They could add in a lot of existing Rare/EX items to jailers that would be a little bonus- like one of the jailers having a 1 in 10 chance of dropping a Joyeuse or Jelly Ring.

[Koyangi]

<galka porn>

For as much as I would like to continue that train of thought, I have to agree with Quicklet.

Even if they don't want to add in gear that is better than abjuration armor, they could have at least made abjurations drop off of jailers. (And Ridills too, damn it.) They could add in a lot of existing Rare/EX items to jailers that would be a little bonus- like one of the jailers having a 1 in 10 chance of dropping a Joyeuse or Jelly Ring.

Way too many people have sea now, its not a rite of passage like when I was there and only 12 other NA's had it. You thought Ulli camp could be bad? look at what could happen at these Jailers. Not to mention the gay ass drop rates of the pop items.(every NA hnmls has at least 18 members with sea on Siren, unless a new 1 has popped up within the last week that I don't know about) Despite their not being the cool and USEFUL loot sky has to offer in sea, theres still quite a bit of people there soloing for buffers, farming organs or w/e to notice that everyone pretty much has sea now.

[Zigrah]

and when you implement "huge gil sinks" your problem is not inflation but deflation, which presents much more serious problems than inflation ever can.

explain, deflation can only get to the point when people stop buying those items from NPCs. what serious problem can it cost?

Number 1 it simulates a market crash, suddenly peoples gil drops faster than prices can, some people get extremely poor while others get considerably rich. When you suddenly remove extreme amounts of money from an economy prices will be forced to drop of course.

What about the guy who has 100 mil and just sits on that gil for a couple months. never buying from these "huge gil sinks" like everyone else. Suddenly 1 million is considered wealthy and this person has on obscene amount of money. While most of us are trying to rebuild our insignificant fortunes, this person is willingly paying more than most people can afford and essentially making big ticket items even less affordable to the average player. Except this won't just be one person but a lot of people, as you can't just create one perfect gil sink that everyone will use and so on.

Economy needs to deflate very slowly, or not at all and just stabilize where it is. Mass deflation is a bad thing if you ask me.

There's also the problem of that also creating an economy that soars and plummits constantly, it would lack stability all together which I think you agree is the ultimate goal.

Way too many people have sea now, its not a rite of passage like when I was there and only 12 other NA's had it. You thought Ulli camp could be bad? look at what could happen at these Jailers. Not to mention the gay ass drop rates of the pop items.(every NA hnmls has at least 18 members with sea on Siren, unless a new 1 has popped up within the last week that I don't know about) Despite their not being the cool and USEFUL loot sky has to offer in sea, theres still quite a bit of people there soloing for buffers, farming organs or w/e to notice that everyone pretty much has sea now.

I don't think I an argue with you that lots of people have Sea now, but I don't think it's the fact that it's more or less full that interests me, it would be the ability to spread out. If drop rates were adjusted and then half the people who compete in sky could just go to sea then it speeds things up for everyone. New yet impressive items would be even better for those who have all their gear and just want new goals. Personally I can't handle a week camping Fafnir without getting extremely jaded and I don't get how some linkshells can be still going for it after a year or more.

Btw, Zigrah check your email.

I got your message sorry, I just have been busy beyond belief. I had to call in a few favors to go to the fanfest, so since I got back I have been writing exams, working long hours at my other job and trying to sleep if I can find the time. Sorry for not replying right away.

[loial]

One thing I don't understand about our economy... where is all this gil coming from? At some point, every last bit of gil on the server is generated by the server. It comes in different forms of course:

Gil sources:
- Quest/Mission rewards
- Selling items to NPCs
- Dropped from mobs (small from normal mobs, a bit bigger from NMs)

Gil sinks:
- low-end: Airship/Outpost/Choco (well, birds used to be like 2k-8k, now lower)
- middle: items bought from NPCs (some really cheap, others really expensive, but either way, its gil leaving the server)
- high-end: AH fees

Naturally, I bold AH fees for a reason. Consider the ridiculous amounts of gil people were paying back over Christmas when RMT was especially rampant and we saw prices increase 25%-50% in one week (my server did at least).

Every time an item is purchased off the AH, to keep a balance (little to no inflation), there must be a gil source to cover this. Most big ticket items that are sold on AHs are sold in Jeuno with the 2% cut.

During the Christmas Inflation Scare of '05, on many servers, we say Haubys and SH go for 12M+. That's an AH fee of 250k+ each. And multiple are sold per day (upwards to 5 on my server). That's not counting the Venemous claws that also sold on the AH for just a fraction less than the NQ SH or the D. Ingot(?) for Hauby. So, we are really talking about roughly 500k in AH fees per SH or Hauby sold per day back then. (Adjust values by about half for today's prices).

So, for just those 2 items alone, we are looking at roughly 5M in AH fees alone. Where the hell was 5M entering the server during that time? Even today, look at all the items you sell yourself, add up the AH fees and ask yourself, "Ok, now where is the X million gil entering the server to cover this?"

It must be coming from somewhere. We aren't seeing deflation, which is what I'd expect to be seeing right now.

[Xiona]

just make ffxi economy socialistic. erase all the gil and give everyone 1mil to start =p

[aurik]

It must be coming from somewhere. We aren't seeing deflation, which is what I'd expect to be seeing right now.

Most servers are in a deflationary cycle. Asura, for instance, is in a massive depression where very very little is selling at all.

[layoneil]

Number 1 it simulates a market crash, suddenly peoples gil drops faster than prices can, some people get extremely poor while others get considerably rich. When you suddenly remove extreme amounts of money from an economy prices will be forced to drop of course.

gradual deflation is different from sudden deflation. who with 1M is going to spend 50k on a single piece of Dynamis Currency or spend 200k to buy Ancient Beastcoins from an NPC?

buying from these "huge gil sinks" like everyone else.

you think everyone will buy Kindred Seals and Beastmen Seals from NPCs until they are broke?

in a guild like system, where there's X amount that can be sold per day, where the price changes the next day to reflect yesterday's sales, you believe everyone will participate?

as you can't just create one perfect gil sink that everyone will use and so on.

you don't want to create a perfect gil sink that everyone will use. you want gil sinks that only rich players will use, you only want to take gil off the top.

that's why you only sell optional items, Dynamis Currency, Ancient Beastcoins, Seals, they are totally optional, people can and do get them in other ways. poor people will simply stick with the usual ways in acquiring them, a lot of people don't even have any use for them.

you never want to make large gil sinks that people have to use.

Economy needs to deflate very slowly, or not at all and just stabilize where it is. Mass deflation is a bad thing if you ask me.

never asked for mass deflation. what's wrong with deflation in general? i don't know why my suggestion would produce mass deflation.

i'm definitely not going to dump gil into Beastman Seals or Kindred Seals. i certainly don't have enough personal gil to invest in Dynamis Currency, i wouldn't dump any LS money into it either.

i might get a few Ancient Beastcoins to upgrade AF+1s for fun though.

There's also the problem of that also creating an economy that soars and plummits constantly, it would lack stability all together which I think you agree is the ultimate goal.

it has already soared, you need a system to make it go down, gradually without the ability to go back up.

when the people that can actually upgrade full relics dump all their gil, they won't anymore, deflation will slow.

when the price of KS30 rewards are worth less than buying 30 KS from the NPCs, than people will stop buying KS. when BCNM40 rewards are worth less than buying 40 Beastman Seals, people will stop buying those. or they'll collect 38 through normal methods and be lazy and just buy the last 2.

nothing about the 4 items i suggest be sold by NPCs is required. if it's more economical to not buy from the NPCs, people will stop. deflation will slow, inflation will creep up, than people will have more gil to spend on this kind of stuff, and somewhere in between there'll be a balance.

[layoneil]

One thing I don't understand about our economy... where is all this gil coming from? At some point, every last bit of gil on the server is generated by the server. It comes in different forms of course:

Gil sources:
- Quest/Mission rewards
- Selling items to NPCs
- Dropped from mobs (small from normal mobs, a bit bigger from NMs)

you underestimate how many mobs get killed a day and you also underestimate how many items get sold to NPCs.

the large cost of gil addition to the servers i believe was the botting of Rusty Caps, which for a few months was endlessly pumping gil into the system by selling to NPCs at a much faster rate than any method of taking gil out.

It must be coming from somewhere. We aren't seeing deflation, which is what I'd expect to be seeing right now.

deflation is happening Flame Rings went from like 6M to 3.5M since the RMT ban. the big chunk of gil they took out from banning Gil Seller accounts has caused deflation on a lot of items.

but relying on repeatedly banning gil sellers to take gil out of the economy won't work. there needs to be more natural NPC methods of taking gil from players that players find fair (nobody likes Bazaar/AH fees).

Cosmo-Cleanse and Timeless Hourglasses are good, but i doubt they are enough.

[Raineer]

You underestimate how many subligars i've broken for myself and others (well, break or not, almost the same result to the economy overall)

[Lockecole]

You underestimate how many subligars i've broken for myself and others (well, break or not, almost the same result to the economy overall)

LOL Lobian. :D

[Raineer]

You underestimate how many subligars i've broken for myself and others (well, break or not, almost the same result to the economy overall)

LOL Lobian. :D

Well if you figure I've purchased around 50 from that NPC and I'm only one player, that's 400m taken out of the economy... Not a large impact but if they did something similar to this for every craft it would be a dramatic impact for sure.