CoP sucks? Blame him.

[Lordwafik]

Wafik, remember that sig you had with 'Farewell BST 12/05'? You recovered pretty quickly by the looks of it

Yeah <3 My BST, even though SE nerfed it, it's still one of my favourite and most geared up jobs I have.




And yes I have a livejournal, and no i'm not an emo. Livejournal doesnt make you emo. Writing down that nobody loves you anymore makes you emo, livejournal is what you make of it.

Many of the CoP battles for me were all about Luck. Prommy Holla I did countless times because of the AOE drain first eating blinks, then eating tanks, then eating us. Mammets in riverne we failed quite a few times, once on the last one, some times halfway through the second because they all turned to BLM. Ouryu was cake, Vahzl I had problems with too untill I decided to ranger burn it while I healed them. Mithra BC was hard, despite what I did, so I had to astral burn it. Bomb BC was hard, many many times we took him to 1%, used all our items, and still lost, untill I got 5 BLM and 1 monk to just manaburn it, etc.

Maybe a case of bad luck? But luck shouldnt be a factor in a BCNM. I did the so called "winning strategies" and they flopped, untill i just zerged the PM's with jobs that win everything.

[BRP]

Back when it came out, when the noobs caused me to lose so many times, I finally made a group with only friends, and beat it by spamming Barstona over and over again. The Drain effect never happened, because it only took barstone, never HP.

There is never one winning strategy. People usually just zerg Holla as the best defence. I think its unfair to say that CoP is based on luck and situations that it is are not on the top of my head, but I can think of a large group of things that you can do to prevent being unlucky. I've always thought of a skill as something that someone has to overcome luck. If you can't, you were not skillful enough, and there are some situations where you will never be skillful enough.

[Lordwafik]

Im not going to blame myself, or my other party members for not being skilled enough.

Hey I even did PM 2-5 with the mamets with 5 people, but on the other hand I've done that fight 11 times and only have won it twice (or 3 times).

Alot of the people I did PM's with, too, were my friends, we bought the best gear we could, even buying eachother gear, yet it doesnt stop a snoll at blowing up at 1% 4 consective times in a row. Making us lose morale to get this thing done. Doesnt stop blm being almost useless due to a tiny MP pool at level30 in comparison to the Promyvion boss's HP pool.

You got lucky on these fights, I didnt.

[Tom Chambers]

1) Other than AV, which doesn't even matter because no one can kill him let alone farm him, which Jailer doesn't pop when you trade the items?

I read something that made some sense to me (it was on Alla!!): People complained about king monopolies and how gay it was to sit around camping these mobs, hoping the abj would drop and just in general how shitty and how random it was to get this good gear. SE responded with "Well we want this gear to be rare so go fuck yourself" People continued to complain and SE continued to want the gear to be rare. SE finally made a concession with CoP- the torques and earrings are very rare but not because the mobs are a once-a-day pop with a voke contest, but because the drop rates on both the items and the triggers are so shitty. The difference is that you can never actively do anything about being about outclaiming a bot, or whatever, without cheating yourself. You can just keep doing Jailers til your shit finally drops, though. Same concept, really, but putting the power in the player's hands.

This is SE amending the king system. Rare not because people are unlucky enough to not get claim or have to deal with botters, but because people have to be very dedicated and patient to actually equip an LS. A particularly sadistic middle ground.

Anyway, I thought it was a pretty good theory.

2) Who cares if the Tree is better than Bibiki? If it wasn't for Bibiki the Tree would still be packed. More leveling locations is always a good thing, I'm sure ToAU will introduce some leveling areas that will become popular but they don't need to be better than what we have now in order for it to be successful in that realm. Options are good.

3) In real life, in sports, in hobbies, in games, luck plays a factor. Whether it's the aforementioned VoS/DA/BD camps or what cards you draw in Rummy, luck is there. I rather like BCs that are so difficult that luck plays an important factor. If luck had nothing to do with that would mean it's so easy that it doesn't matter. I don't like that. I like challenge.

[BRP]

An important factor =/= main factor. You can only get unlucky, not lucky. You can't beat CoP with just luck, but you can lose it being unlucky.

[jerkbox]

I don't think luck has that much impact on CoP BC fights... being on the ball and skill can overcome anything devastating from happening. All of those gimmick items for each BC (CCB, hippogryph feather things, animas, etc) all overcome the stupid stuff that can happen in these BCs. You don't even need to use yellow liquids for 3Mammet fight. If you're attentive, you can keep them Silenced/Bound easily. I like doing this fight as RDM/NIN kiting :D

[Tom Chambers]

An important factor =/= main factor. You can only get unlucky, not lucky. You can't beat CoP with just luck, but you can lose it being unlucky.

Well I don't think it's the main factor. As mentioned, you can overcome issues if you're on the ball. If you're not and it overwhelms you...either you have to get good enough at the BC to overcome it or hope that unlucky instance doesn't happen to you.

To be honest, I don't think I've ever been in a group that 'overcame' problems with Diabolos. Just eek by when he decides not to spam Nightmare. But I'm not going to cry about it, I know other people have had him spam it and perservered and still whooped his ass. That's a game right there, that's how it should be. Not lemme grab this 75 RDM and this 75 NIN and now me and and my level 58 friends can beat ZM4 and 6 really easily.

I'm not trying to bash ZM BCs at all, but CoP BCs have always been alot more fun to me because of their difficulty.

[Maxxthepenguin]

Seriously, if it was dependent on luck your strategy sucked. My party beat the tzar the 1st try, mithrans 4th try, on ultima/omega we beat the weapons 1st try but mammets 6th try (long story), tenzen 1st try. Every time we lost we fixed our strats, and by the end we could always win. Luck only plays the main role when you try to burn them... we used solid strategies.

Oh yeah, and you can get lucky on RoZ BCs much more... I died on ZM6 because of sand trap spamming once.

[epigram]

Well there is a HUGE difference in the quality of items from 3 kings and Jailors. Excluding of course any AV drops since right now he pretty much is impossible.

If jailors had rare drops that were of the scale of 3 kings, fuck yeah everyone would be in sea. But they don't, they have a couple weapons where three are really worth getting stones for, a couple of torques that are a bit better than a peacock charm, and a nice earring for blms.

In terms of itemization, the jailors are horrible when compared to sky gods or three kings.

They are good to fight for a challenge, but they are hardly worth farming when compared to any other collection of hnm in the game.

[Lylie]

An important factor =/= main factor. You can only get unlucky, not lucky. You can't beat CoP with just luck, but you can lose it being unlucky.

Actually there's two strategy on CoP Missions (applies for 90% of the game):

1) Regular setup, and hope the Boss won't wipe you because of one unlucky move.
2) Manaburn it to death, and there's almost no need to worry about luck.

[Maxxthepenguin]

An important factor =/= main factor. You can only get unlucky, not lucky. You can't beat CoP with just luck, but you can lose it being unlucky.

Actually there's two strategy on CoP Missions (applies for 90% of the game):

1) Regular setup, and hope the Boss won't wipe you because of one unlucky move.
2) Manaburn it to death, and there's almost no need to worry about luck.

/no

You phail

[Tom Chambers]

Well there is a HUGE difference in the quality of items from 3 kings and Jailors. Excluding of course any AV drops since right now he pretty much is impossible.

If jailors had rare drops that were of the scale of 3 kings, fuck yeah everyone would be in sea. But they don't, they have a couple weapons where three are really worth getting stones for, a couple of torques that are a bit better than a peacock charm, and a nice earring for blms.

In terms of itemization, the jailors are horrible when compared to sky gods or three kings.

They are good to fight for a challenge, but they are hardly worth farming when compared to any other collection of hnm in the game.

Well I'm not talking about the items themselves, I'm just saying that the horrid drop rates on both items and triggers just seems like another way to 'keep things rare' while empowering the player base a bit more. Whether they're worth doing that to is a whole different (and irrelevent) argument.

[Hirronimus]

Something occured to me. Has anyone considered that CoP was a form of a live beta of certain game mechains and player base responce to additions/changes from RoZ? I say this because if that's the case, it makes me hopeful that ToAU will have some very nice additions based of R&D done with CoP.

[Ichthyos]

This has been beaten to death on almost every thread here, but when the discussion about what we don't like about FF comes up, it inevitably turns to the three kings vs newer HNMs.

The same people (I think) complaining about shallow loot tables from CoP wyrms and from Jailers are saying that it's broken that the 3 kings are 2+ years old but still camped. I don't think most of us realize that we (usually) can't have it both ways. The 3 kings have deep loot tables with some items that are common and some that aren't. CoP wyrms and Jailers have shallow loot tables without ridiculously rare drops, so there's less competition/demand for them. Personally I like it when mobs have shallower drop tables so that LS's can max out on items and move on. Some would argue that there isn't enough incentive to kill some new NMs, but that's the beauty behind it. If the demand is too high, then people have less fun because too many people are after the mob.

I'm not saying the new NMs are perfect, but in general there's a good balance to be struck between depth of loot table, rarity of drops, and pop times/ease of pop.

[DrObvious]

My LS does two sea runs a week including limbus, each lasts a total of maybe 4-5 hours including soap purchase, teleports, waiting for people to gather in palace, etc etc. Since September we've killed 145 Jailers and a few Proto-Weapons. As far as I know, there aren't any "glitched" NMs, unless you count AV being apparently unkillable. We've fought all of them 10+ times except Love and AV (only once each).

How is Prudence turning untargetable only sometimes not a glitch?

[Awoir]

Im not going to blame myself, or my other party members for not being skilled enough.

Hey I even did PM 2-5 with the mamets with 5 people, but on the other hand I've done that fight 11 times and only have won it twice (or 3 times).

Alot of the people I did PM's with, too, were my friends, we bought the best gear we could, even buying eachother gear, yet it doesnt stop a snoll at blowing up at 1% 4 consective times in a row. Making us lose morale to get this thing done. Doesnt stop blm being almost useless due to a tiny MP pool at level30 in comparison to the Promyvion boss's HP pool.

You got lucky on these fights, I didnt.

From LS forums

Found this while looking for some new ideas to beat CoP 2.5 BC.

~~~~~~~~~~~THIS IS A MUST READ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Summary: Glitch to ensure victory no matter jobs in PT.

I'll try and make this quick. Me and my PT went to do PM 2-5 today. Appears to be a glitch during the battle... anyways we were BLM, WHM, NIN, WAR/NIN, RNG/NIN, SMN/WHM.
When we reached Monarch Linn we went over strategy (*** VERY IMPORTANT***) and then we entered...
For everyone doing PM 2-5 you will receive a cutscene... HERE IS THE GLITCH!!!!

Notes before battle:
- Must have one person who is not needed for 2/3, most, of the battle, designated CSer.
- Must have someone who is willing to die (NIN works well with 2hr)designated Pre-Tank.
- The Pre-Tank must cast Reraise (Reraiser item or earring) upon entering the battle.
- The CSer must be willing to fastforward through CS (very necessary), or know when to stop to prevent leaving the CS.
- The Pre-Tank should MOST likely be the party leader.
- Must have a SECOND TANK!!!

1 ) Have any one person remain in the cutscene mode (usually, least useful job) like our SMN.

2 ) EVERYONE else except the person in cutscene (CSer) and the designated Pre-Tank (our NIN did this flawlessly) temporary log to POL.

3 ) When everyone except the Pre-Tank and the CSer are temp logged, have the Pre-Tank go in and take hate from ALL (***VERY IMPORTANT***) 3 of the Epsilons. (Voke, run, whatever)

4 ) The Pre-Tank then MUST PULL BACK to the CSer (who will be in the field but still in CS) at entrance.

5 ) The Pre-Tank will then die (keep in mind everyone but CSer and Pre-Tank are logged) and the three Epsilons will aggro the CSer (while he is in CS).
GLITCH: The CSer will not take damage... O.O WTF?!

6 ) After about 1 minute of being logged out... the other party members will/should log in.

7 ) Pre-Tank will Reraise and invite the guys who are coming back in.

8 ) DO NOT WAIT FOR WEAKENED STATE TO WEAR OFF or else you WILL run out of time.

9 ) Proceed to pull the Epsilons off the CSer (still in CS) one by one and kill them. THIS IS WHERE SECONDARY TANK IS NEEDED TO PROVOKE!

10 ) When the first two are dead. Provoke off the last one and tell the CSer to come in. They will probably have to fast forward through CS.

11 ) Win PM 2-5 ^.^

So it's pretty simple. It is 100% guaranteed to work, we have 12 people now who have witnessed it. If the Pre-Tank is not party leader you will probably have to reform in a new party and just invite CSer when he gets in. And just out of courtesy, you should keep the CSer informed of what's going on.

The CSer WILL NOT BE HURT or RECEIVE ANY STATUS EFFECTS as long as he REMAINS IN THE CS.

You might wanna do this quickly, cause they may fix it with next patch, thus requiring skill.
For the record, this method took my party 26 minutes to beat, leaving very little room for error, etc.
Buffs casted before logging out will be erased when you log back in. Will have to rebuff before engaging the first Epsilon. Good luck and hope this helps ^_^

[Demetrios]

OH MY GOD COP SUCKS LET"S ALL QUIT FFXI AND PLAY WOW

[Marcatil]

OH MY GOD COP SUCKS LET"S ALL QUIT FFXI AND PLAY WOW

Beat you by a longshot.

[Kaylia]

I thought it was impossible to lose Mammet fight when you have a pld/war/nin/thf kite 2 without grabbing hate, and have an healer spam cure on him

[Ashion]

From LS forums

Summary: Glitch to ensure victory no matter jobs in PT.

Oh man, seems easier to just do the BC.. if your teamwork isn't up to snuff, you know that someone will mess up the plan while activating this glitch.

Be funny if this worked in the U/O fight, even if it was just a time waste.