About the job's you level...

[Eternus]

Leveling up jobs just to lot rare gear for them is the very definition of a loot whore. Like I know a BST who leveled NIN pretty much so he could lot haidate and osode lol. See that kind of stuff is fucked up. I do not think there should be one NA in a LS that has multiple body abj from Nidhogg for example. Someone else should get a chance first. No fucking way is someone going to use Dalmatica and Koenig body at the same time. Just because they have the job leveled does not mean they deserve to or should even lot. It should go to the person with the main job who plays it the most. Like your main tank getting the first m body... your main tank is not the same person as your main DD who gets ridill and e body. If it is the same person, then your lotting system is fucked and biased.

[Hirronimus]

Explain the difference between Loot Slut and Item Whore to me, or is it Loot Whore and Item Slut?

[sweet]

Item Slut: person who will attempt to lot hecatomb for their brd when they have no other job, underthe defense it lets them solo better.

Loot Whore: Someone who will sell their relationships, lie to friends, deceive linkshell mates, ruin their reputation, all to get an item. Someone getting their relic weapon and then dropping the dynamis shell they created, selling all it's stored currency to IGE, for example.

[Xavier]

"Hi I have 5 level 75 jobs and therefore need and deserve 5 times as much loot as someone with 1 level 75 job. I'm also a bard so I'm used to getting my way"

...to say "hey I have 10 jobs at 75 and they all need equipping and therefore I deserve equal lot status than all the people in those jobs for the best items" is pretty greedy.

Sounds like loot whore to me.

Sound like you're illiterate to me.

Did you even understand his argument? His case was that under a point system, he wasn't able to use his points on gear he wanted. Under any point system, once you have used points to get gear, you've lost the points, meaning its not possible to be a loot whore, because points are designed to reward the deserving. He's complaining about a form of job discrimination.

other people are angry that I want 1-2 AF for various jobs. I have the points, I can spend it...

I never saw the argument that because he has more than 1 job at 75, he should get more gear than other people. He wants the same opportunity to spend his points on his jobs as everyone else. Its not being a loot whore to spend points under a point system.

[aurik]

You didn't read my whole post Xavier, tsk tsk.

It is loot whoring if you joined the shell accepting terms that you can't spend points at face-value for jobs that aren't your selected main, and then when you've got what you wanted for your selected main you turn around and whine about the restrictions.

It must be frustrating as a main-job only-job ninja who goes to beaucedine after beaucedine watching people who are rdm-war-brd-etc-etc-etc-nin lot switch to ninja lotting just for that zone and that fine body piece. Thats what these rules are set up to deflect.

Don't like it? Don't join the shell.

[layoneil]

Leveling up jobs just to lot rare gear for them is the very definition of a loot whore. Like I know a BST who leveled NIN pretty much so he could lot haidate and osode lol. See that kind of stuff is fucked up. I do not think there should be one NA in a LS that has multiple body abj from Nidhogg for example. Someone else should get a chance first. No fucking way is someone going to use Dalmatica and Koenig body at the same time. Just because they have the job leveled does not mean they deserve to or should even lot. It should go to the person with the main job who plays it the most. Like your main tank getting the first m body... your main tank is not the same person as your main DD who gets ridill and e body. If it is the same person, then your lotting system is fucked and biased.

yeah, that's why flat point systems don't work. it's not hard in FFXI to build points to get 2 body abjurations and that shouldn't happen. it's not hard to get enough points for RDM and BLM AF2 hat from Dynamis-Xarc and that probably shouldn't happen.

but you also can't have flat rules on "people who have M Body can never get E Body", if the only one left for E Body is a new guy who might quit the game the next day, i'd rather give it to the main tank for his 2nd job.

at the same time, you can't penalize people for being flexible.

a random example that would probably never apply in practice.

SMN AF2 Hands, SAM AF2 Hands

LS member X is a SAM75 and SMN75.
LS member Y is SMN75 only.

on every Tiamat/Jorm/Vrtra fight both are always on SMN. you can't tell X he can't lot against Y for SMN Hands because X has SAM hands.

this is especially true if X has more play time and is more likely to be online when Tiamat pops. doing that will hurt your LS too.

[Zarathustra]

Having to pick a "main job" when you have multiple jobs to 75 is a retarded system. It opens the door for people who don't deserve gear as much as you getting to lot over you, just because you have more than one job. People should get rewarded for taking the time to become flexible with their job selection, not penalized.

I went thru this same thing a couple of months ago. My LS made some new rules that just ruined everything. The gist of the rules has already been summed up on pages 3 and 4, but the main sticking point was that we were given the option to convert dynamis points to event points at a 2 for 1 special.

I argued as much as I could cuz of all the people between the 2 LSs [Sky/Dynamis] I was one of the few who it really hurt. If we changed jobs we lost half our points. I just wanted 1 AF from each job and I had alotta points. They didn't really wanna hear anything I had to say so I just cashed out my points and quit dynamis for the time being. You can't please everybody... so for now I'm not worried about tryin to please anybody.

How would anyone feel if they were invited to a shell for having a specific job, let's say RDM. You dedicated yorself to the shell earn enough points to finally be first in line to get a Dualist Chapeau, and all of a sudden a WHM that had 5 more points than you on the attendance list decided to "HAY GUYS I GOT MY RDM TO 75 last week" That Pimp hat is mine! 101010

I'd be stupid, but its why I think a point system in FFXI is stupid too. By giving someone points, its the same thing as an IOU. They've earned the right to lot drops. If someone who mainly played WHM had a 75 RDM, and had the most points, then by default hasn't he earned the right to lot? I don't understand the "well you had the most points, so you obviously worked the hardest, but sorry, you can't lot" policy. Isn't a point system intended to motivate people into attending events? Wheres the motivation if the points are excessively restricted?

That is almost the exact same argument they hit me with. So there is no more motivation. I'll come back when my competition has the AF already if I'm still interested. Point systems try to be fair but they fail if the items you want don't drop. "X Guy" has been waitin on "X item" for 5months and spends points on nothin. He gets tired of waitin and then just dominates all the other drops cuz he can. That's not cool but that's how it is with points.

[Rafbacca]

What you fail to realize Xavier is that the point system is not "excessively restricted". If he chooses to change his main conveniently before a specific raid he can, it'll just cost him an additional 3 points.

BTW if no one understands I am in the same Dynamis ls as Koyangi.

And going by my example, according to our rules had the WHM changed the job selection 24 hours prior to the raid, then that would be fine. At least I would know going into a raid what the standings are. And this would prevent someone from lotting more than one AF per raid, should we be lucky enough to get them.

And also people are picked/accepted based on a specific job they either apply for or are desired by the shell. If you are accepted as RDM/DRK to be a stun whore and you want to lot a different job, you are allowed to. The points sytem merely keeps people from lootwhoring the better pieces just because they can.

I got nothing against Koy, he's a very dedicated and good player.

I'm merely pointing out our rules as they've been voted on and discussed at length within the shell. Some people didn't bother to vote and the majority agreement was made that this would be more fair than what was currently in place.

What ever happened to need before greed?

[Xavier]

You didn't read my whole post Xavier, tsk tsk.

It is loot whoring if you joined the shell accepting terms that you can't spend points at face-value for jobs that aren't your selected main, and then when you've got what you wanted for your selected main you turn around and whine about the restrictions.

I did read your whole post, you're still illiterate. Your argument, which isn't even what the guy was talking about (more on that in a sec), depends on if he joined the shell with those rules already in place, or if they were put into place after he had been in it.

Rafbacca exact wording was "We are implementing a main job program with a secondary selection." To me that implies the system wasn't always working that way. So the question is was it implemented after he had accumulated points or before, after he joined or before. I agree with your argument if he joined with the rules already in place, but theres room to question it from the wording of the posts.

It must be frustrating as a main-job only-job ninja who goes to beaucedine after beaucedine watching people who are rdm-war-brd-etc-etc-etc-nin lot switch to ninja lotting just for that zone and that fine body piece.

Its why a point system is retarded. The gear doesn't drop enough to justify accumulating points.

What you fail to realize Xavier is that the point system is not "excessively restricted". If he chooses to change his main conveniently before a specific raid he can, it'll just cost him an additional 3 points.

Ok, I get it, but I don't think that was even the point of the his thread. He just wanted to know how people felt about guys who have multiple jobs and lot on multiple gear for it. This post;

And my many jobs isnt causing me to not obtain the items, its just other people are angry that I want 1-2 AF for various jobs. I have the points, I can spend it, if they wanna hate me, oh well. I could care less about the full sets, and shit wasting space in my MH, many can attest to me passing many relics I could equip and was the only lotter for

implies that he was using the system to change his job before each run, and people were getting pissed at him.

What ever happened to need before greed?

I could care less about the full sets, and shit wasting space in my MH, many can attest to me passing many relics I could equip and was the only lotter for

I dunno, why don't you ask someone who knows what it means, like him.

So I think its gone off topic a little bit. I don't think he was even questioning the rules, nobody even read his post it seems. He just wanted a public opinion on using the system to get the af he wanted. I don't think its loot whoring to spend your points on the gear you want, if you have the points, and the system is designed to let you change jobs to get them.

My point on excessively restrictive is if hes not allowed to do it because people get pissed off.

[Hirronimus]

I'm so glad there's no point system for helping your friends do their AF quests. (Back in the day that is, when everyone needed help with them)

P.S. To better understand what everyone's talking about I think if we replace word "linkshell" with word "corporation" and word "points" with word "sallary", we'll get the clear picture of what it's all about.

[Eternus]

The rarer the gear the more points it is worth. If your LS only sees one RDM
AF2 hat ever and when it drops some assclown with points and 3 75 jobs (has ridill, e bdy) wins lot over a full time RDM with equal points then you have problems. This is a hypothetical situation, not like I have seen this happen before or anything. Yes you should penalize greedy fuckers who already have pimped out 2 jobs before someone else in LS has gotten shit for their first. Points are supposed to handle this type of thing by being based on attendance, but really you are trusting someone to keep track.. who is to say that person is not biased?

[Xavier]

I'm so glad there's no point system for helping your friends do their AF quests. (Back in the day that is, when everyone needed help with them)

There was a point system, it just wasn't called that. It was called cyber, and you got bonus points for pretending to be a woman, and even more if you were a mithra.

[layoneil]

there's one thing i noticed in those rules. once you get 5/5 you can change jobs for free, but you can't if you don't get 5/5. most jobs is not worthwhile to get 5/5.

because there's no NPC storage for AF2, people with 3+ jobs that gather 5/5 AF2 is just wasting a lot of space.

i'm obviously not in your LS, but instead of the 5/5 stipulation, you should allow people to retire their jobs at will, in which if they are even 1/5 but have all the pieces they want they can retire it for no penalty.

the penalty would incur if they want to unretire the job and lot the other 4 pieces, and this penalty should be much steeper than changing jobs.

[Hirronimus]

because there's no NPC storage for AF2, people with 3+ jobs that gather 5/5 AF2 is just wasting a lot of space.

God I hope that changes with expansion, not that I am 5/5 on any of my 75 jobs, but if/when I do get to that point, having such storage would definatly be beneficial.

[layoneil]

because there's no NPC storage for AF2, people with 3+ jobs that gather 5/5 AF2 is just wasting a lot of space.

God I hope that changes with expansion, not that I am 5/5 on any of my 75 jobs, but if/when I do get to that point, having such storage would definatly be beneficial.

i'm 5/5 for 2 jobs but i only have 2 jobs.

5/5 on Sky Set, Osode is not Ex though.

4/5 on Zenith and i don't want Zenith Pumps cause than i'd feel obligated to uncurse the Slacks too and they are both a waste of gil.

[Xavier]

Time for a my penis is bigger than your penis series of posts.

[Hirronimus]

On cue....

i'm 5/5 for 2 jobs but i only have 2 jobs.

5/5 on Sky Set, Osode is not Ex though.

4/5 on Zenith and i don't want Zenith Pumps cause than i'd feel obligated to uncurse the Slacks too and they are both a waste of gil.

Oh yeah? Well, I see your 5/5 and raise you my 3/5 RDM, 1/5 PLD and 1/5 BRD.

2/5 Zenith+1; Hand Abju still waiting for -1

1/5 Kaiser; eith head abju waiting for -1

0/5 Blood; hands and feet abju: O

1/5 God set: Genbu Kabuto ftw

Um... yeah. >.>;;

Edit: Monster Helm -1: O (Don't even have AF2 and BST is 57, but I'll get there.)

[mrfridays]

I have three testicles. They are quite large and impressive.

[Rafbacca]

the penalty would incur if they want to unretire the job and lot the other 4 pieces, and this penalty should be much steeper than changing jobs.

I actually like this idea, especially if we increase the cost to reactivate a job.

I'll take this back as a suggestion.

[Koyangi]

there's one thing i noticed in those rules. once you get 5/5 you can change jobs for free, but you can't if you don't get 5/5. most jobs is not worthwhile to get 5/5.

because there's no NPC storage for AF2, people with 3+ jobs that gather 5/5 AF2 is just wasting a lot of space.

i'm obviously not in your LS, but instead of the 5/5 stipulation, you should allow people to retire their jobs at will, in which if they are even 1/5 but have all the pieces they want they can retire it for no penalty.

the penalty would incur if they want to unretire the job and lot the other 4 pieces, and this penalty should be much steeper than changing jobs.

I brought this exact thing up, but it failed to go through.