Weapon skills where Double Attack can proc.

[NynJa]

the 17% DE's are from subtle blow, rajas ring.

I have a screenshot of me getting 12% tp return before I had any +store tp gear as thf/war. Double and Triple can proc during the same ws. And SE always rounds down anyway so unless you are getting 6%+ base per swing you won't get extra like that.

And I'm guessing triple can only proc 2x in DE if you miss a hit because that would explain no 18%+ DE's from anyone aside from that one guy. So the 8-hits-per-ws is for all ws's.

that doesnt surpass 8 hits though....



and yeah, I meant Store TP, kinda out of it atm.

[Slott]

refer to my orig post, i said it happened 10 times at least, not that "often" anyway, believe me or not, I dont care and have nothing to prove, ive seen the numbers

[NynJa]

ok, well of all, and I repeat, ALL the lv60+ thieves, you are the only one who this has happened to.

[Slott]

good enough, i have nothing to prove to you next time it happens ill screen shot. til then arguing over a message board accomplishes nothing.

[Krandor]

good enough, i have nothing to prove to you next time it happens ill screen shot. til then arguing over a message board accomplishes nothing.

a SS wouldn't prove for something that is able to change as rapidly as TP.

[genome]

Showing a screenshot would be a step further but still wouldn't prove much in terms of DS or TA in ws, like I showed with the 46% tp after asuran screenshot, you can sometimes get a few hits after ws, increasing your tp, and lag etc can cause you to get animations and log messages out of sync. That's probably what happened to you.

http://www.theorderls.com/phpBB2/viewto ... 157#178157

But yeah next time you think it happens to you, you should take a screenshot so you can figure out better from ws damage etc what might have happened instead.

Still you can understand why one person saying they think something happened to them once when it never happened to any of the two thousand or so people that already saw this post or in the many years they played that job, you should probably assume yourself that it was just a fluke from lag or hits etc until you can go back and seriously test it again to explain the overwhelming evidence against it.

[Tahngarthor]

SE nerfed it to make it so...

Uhm, the nerf you're thinking of is PvP only. it is not nerfed outside of PvP.

[Chidorii]

You cant believe everything you see.
As someone else mentioned earlier, sometimes the chat log gets messed up because things happen too fast.
You might attack immediately after a WS but it shows up incorrectly in the log therefore making you think you got more tp from one WS when in fact you did not.
Here's something slightly off topic but still shows a case where the chat log can be all messed up:

This is my smn using astral flow hehe.
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y28...o/img_0023.png

If you look closely you will notice the chains go 9 > 10 > 12 > 13 > 15 > 3 > 6 etc etc... Obviously not in correct order.

[GRT]

are you sure faith weapon and DA can stack in one round (resulting 6 hits)? cuz i always though multi hit weapons don't stack that way with DA...

it's too messy to test with kraken club, but when i only used joyeuse and sub war, or wear a brutal earring, i never see joyeuse hit more than 2 times, leading me to believe that brutal and DA makes the "occasional attack twice" more occaional (lol) only, instead of giving a 3rd or 4th hit in one round

plz correct me if i'm wrong ^^;

[Krandor]

Jailer weapons can stack with Double Attack. I see WARs in my LS with Fortitude Axe Triple Attack with it all the time, and I get it from time to time with my Justice Sword too (due to lower base Double Attack rate for PLD I rarely see it fire off).

[genome]

Yeah I got DA stacking with Faith Baghnakhs several times now, even from just brutal earrings or just war sub.

Double Attack from war sub and from brutal earrings only stack as percentages, never resulting in 6 hits, but faith and DA do, I got 6 hits and 7 hits counting kicks before several times.

I never saw 8+ hits though, which could have been possible (normal 2 hits + 2 more from double attack, then 2 extra from faith + 2 more from DA of those) so I guess it doesn't work that way or chances of that are really minimal or non-existent.

Also 6 hits is already a bit more rare, for h2h duble attacks from DA and faith can be either 1 extra or 2 extra so you need both events to be the 2 extra to get 6, where you can get any number of attacks from 2 (no DA no faith activation), 3 (1 DA or 1 faith activation), 4, 5, 6, not counting kicks or counters.

[Raineer]

ok, well of all, and I repeat, ALL the lv60+ thieves, you are the only one who this has happened to.

[Lasitha]

sorry no, just no. Double attack gives you a lot more added damage than one hit missing costs you. I'm pretty sure it's a well noted fact that DA was removed from asuran, mabye one of out pre-RoZ players can chime in.

Asuran Fists didn't exist pre-RoZ

[XxSlusherxx]

sorry no, just no. Double attack gives you a lot more added damage than one hit missing costs you. I'm pretty sure it's a well noted fact that DA was removed from asuran, mabye one of out pre-RoZ players can chime in.

Asuran Fists didn't exist pre-RoZ

this was brought oup by venin already, I Realise lvl cap was 70 at North American releace. I guess I meant players who were 70 when Asura was first released, but w/e, my oversight. you obviouly read the entire thread if that all you have to say at this point.

[epigram]

As bst/nin I've seen a lot of 5x and 6x attacks with temperance and brutal. I've messed around with a K-club a few times but never actually owned one, so for non sea multi hit weapons you can't DA or TA and get multi hit proc?

Quick question then since my thief is only 47.

- Can you DA on a TA (TA = 3x attack not Trick) or TA on a DA?
- Can jailer weapons go off on TA?

[Kuponut]

- Can you DA on a TA (TA = 3x attack not Trick) or TA on a DA?
- Can jailer weapons go off on TA?

I think it is more of, you either Double Attack, or you triple attack, or normal attack, pretty sure they don't stack.
I have never seen a Thief with Justice Sword, but if Double Attack will stack with Virtue, then it is probably safe to assume that Triple Attack will too.

[Ichthyos]

Triple attack does indeed stack with Justice Sword's double attack.

[genome]

As bst/nin I've seen a lot of 5x and 6x attacks with temperance and brutal. I've messed around with a K-club a few times but never actually owned one, so for non sea multi hit weapons you can't DA or TA and get multi hit proc?

Quick question then since my thief is only 47.

- Can you DA on a TA (TA = 3x attack not Trick) or TA on a DA?
- Can jailer weapons go off on TA?

Triple attack does indeed stack with Justice Sword's double attack.

The way it is worded might be confusing to some, so just to clarify, that would be an answer to the second question, virtue weapons don't exactly Double-Attack the same way that brutal or WAR trait do, they are a separate occurrence. So from Ichthyos's answer I think he is saying yes to the question "Can jailer weapons go off on TA?".

The other question, "Can you DA on a TA" is just in regards to say a THF/WAR ever getting 4 hits instead of 3 hits using a normal weapon just from having those 2 traits (DA and TA). The answer to that I believe is no, but I am not 100% sure of since my THF is lvl 37. Any THF/WAR can probably confirm or correct me and tell us for sure.

But yeah DA from war trait or brutal vs attacks-twice from virtue weapon are different events and that's why they can and do stack.

[Lockecole]

The other question, "Can you DA on a TA" is just in regards to say a THF/WAR ever getting 4 hits instead of 3 hits using a normal weapon just from having those 2 traits (DA and TA). The answer to that I believe is no, but I am not 100% sure of since my THF is lvl 37. Any THF/WAR can probably confirm or correct me and tell us for sure.

No, a THF/WAR can only either TA or DA on a single swing, I assume checking in the order of Triple Attack first, then Double Attack second if the first doesn't proc.

[Ilikepoo]

I've had 17% tp returns on Rampage, normal being 15%, and no Rajas. 18% seems possible if you double attacked 3 times for 8 hits. 14% + 3 hits double attacking for 8 hits. As for DE, I have never seen over 16%. Theoretically, you could get 17% as THF/NIN with Brutal. 14% = 5 hits, double adds 1 hit (15%) and triple adds 2 hits (17%) which amounts to 8 hits.

Too bad multi-hit weapons (Kraken, Joy, Ridill) don't proc in WS =\ Don't know about Justice weapons.