CoP Wyrms

[n00btroll]

Long-time Reader, First time Poster.

I'm sure this has been beaten to death by 90% of the population here. However, since your search feature brings up like 1000+ posts. So I figured I would ask.

All I am looking for is positioning info for Jorm and Tiamat.

I understand how a Fafhogg fight works. Is that bascially it? I mean if it's that simple cool. However, I hear talks only the tanks being at it's feet. While DD and SMN run in and Bloodpact/Release run away, or /TA WS run out of range.

To me it seems like it would be easier if you had your whole allainace at its feet. And if you had to run out of range you either A.Die or B. Log off.

The video's I have seen shows it being done both ways. Atleast with Jorm. So I was just wondering some simple advice on positioning.

Thanks in advance.

[layoneil]

go watch another LS fight it, that's the easiest way to learn.

[Kiro]

n00btroll

Lol.

Sorry I can't answer your question I've only fought one CoP wyrm. ^^;

[Taku]

Well, you've seen videos of it being done both ways, which would imply it can be done either way.

When we fought Jorm, we had everybody who's not going to pull hate stay out of AoE range... no need to take extra damage if you can avoid it(and para from wing sucks).

[Lockecole]

The concept of staying within AOE range when you have the option not to has always elluded me. Find a way to tank him well enough so that you can have all of your mages out of AOE range, and still be able to do their jobs, and you'll have a MUCH smoother fight.

[Palin]

Jorm/Tiam don't Flail the minute they start turning like Fafhogg can. They also don't have as insane a TP regen that gives them the ability to Spike Flail at any second such as Fafhogg.

Keep your mages out of AoE range, for Jorm at least, since its harder to Stun his -ga moves. Tiamat is a bit lighter on the AoEs so Smns and other mages usually have less of problems than with Jorm. Jorm uses Touchdown so much and Paralyzega, as well as Blizzaga if your Stunners aren't 100% focused, so keeping mages out of AoE range is a good idea. Just make sure your Whms aren't Curing in Zenith gear and are actually using some -enmity gear. Same goes for your Brds. Hate will probably go to them a few times, so lessen this with the proper gear, and use log out to your advantage on your first fights.

[Illverin]

Tiamat is easier to stun in terms of his magic attacks and if you are lucky one of his Tabbard wings, other than that Lockecole hit it right on the head with staying out of AOE range.

As far as the original poster's question about positioning, really the best place is as far away from adds as you can possibly be. For Jorm, I suggest the south passage towards the hill where you drop for the ENM item. This still leaves ample room for the add people to kite around the big area without much attention from Jorm at all. As for Tiamat, I would not bring him too far down the hill as your mages could get pressed up against the wall with no where to go. For both dragons, its always good to face them into a wall so your mages can avoid breath attacks.

[n00btroll]

Thanks for the honest replys! Much better advice already then I hoped for.

Some Added Questions based on answers.

1.) If you keep all the mages out of AoE Range(which seems insane btw) Where do you position then compared to the Mob? Like you said Tiamat is a little lighter on the AoE? So for Jorm then if they aren't at the mob's feet. Where would i put them? (god that sounds so stupid) But seriously. For Fafhogg, you just camp the feet/stoneskinup/ cure up when you take damage beyond that. Couldn't you theoritically just do that here as well? Mages Keep stoneskin up. When he uses touchdown, stun him, recast stoneskin, PT mages heal their PT, repeat?

Im sure if it's possible to keep the mages outta range that would hot like spitting hot fire. But. How the hell do you do that?

Thats basically my problem over all. Position for the fight. Everyone says its better to keep everyone out of range. Just where the hell do you keep them! I can see having SMN move in and out. Their hate is clean.

I'm sure this is kiddie stuff's for most of you. But humor me if you would please.

[Taku]

Just ... keep them out of AoE range... it doesn't really matter where in relation to the wyrm because they should never pull hate. So somewhere, that's not going to take damage from AoE, and not going to aggro adds.

You could fight him at the feet, some people do... but you take a lot of unnecessary damage. Comparing the fight to Fafnir is sorta unfair because Fafnir's only AoE is wing, and you couldn't get out of range of it if you wanted to.

CoP wyrms have a lot worse AoE, an unstunned blizzaga3 -> wing is going to leave everyone at orange life, no shadows, and paralyzed... which might lead to a dead tank. That's a lot of Viruna if you're fighting Tiamat.

OR, you could just stay outside of AoE range and just heal/paralyna the tanks... when we fought him we had our healers at his feet too so they didn't have to be paranoid about pulling hate.

[MisterBob]

Is it possible to remain out of Jorm's wing range and stay able to heal him though? It's easy to stay out of Sleet Blast/Blizzaga, but it seems that in order to remain active you need to be in wing/touchdown range. We usually pull it to the wall in the direction that leads to the slops you can ski down.

[n00btroll]

What about Melee? Would you leave them all outside of AoE Range too?

So 2 Tanks on the Wyrm. Everyone else back? Run in BP, Run in /TA WS?
Log off hate everytime you run back / miss /TA?

I would prefer to minimze the damage, but it seems to me to be overly complicated for our first couple of fights, to have Melee and SMN's running all over the place.

I mean if this is the most effective way that's all there is to it. Just making sure. 8)

Again sorry to sound Special Edish about this. I just try to do as much prefight research as possible. I know the only way to make sure it all comes together is to get out there and do it, but it doesn't hurt to study up first.

[Ruffles]

When we fought Jormungand we pulled to the southern spot mentioned before, best spot imo. Jormungand casts Blizzaga III incredibly fast and is usually directed at the Tanks. We had a RDM/DRK solely focusing on on stunning the AoE as well as 2 other BLMs throwing in random stuns after the tanks looked like they were in trouble. All the mages were able to be far enough behind the tanks (standing at Js feet) so that they would rarely take a Blizzaga III. Mages can try to find the spot as far as possible away from tanks that still allows them to cast on Jormungand. The worst thing that happens is either the BLM pulls hate and is pulled in by Jormungand, inwhich the BLM immediately regains his bearrings and heads back to the spot he was at b4 and logs out or hes too close to a PLD and takes a Blizzaga.

All mages should be in the clearing behind the tanks so that there is little magic aggro.

[Angelsin]

So 2 Tanks on the Wyrm. Everyone else back? Run in BP, Run in /TA WS?
Log off hate everytime you run back / miss /TA?

logging off does nothing to reset hate.

[Ohemgee]

Log onto a mule.

Tank party by the front

BLMs/SMNs perpendicular to his side.

Melee's SA+WS and yeah.



Tank <--|-----|-~~~~ Person MPKing you



_____BLM/SMN

[Kimiko]

I hate to sidetrack the conversation though, but exactly how can a LS conceivably defeat a CoP wyrm (in this case, Tiamat) with only 11 people. Apperently, a jp LS on siren (priceless, home of the JP ballista royale champions) managed such a feat, I just don't see how it would be viable with so few people.

[Maxxthepenguin]

I hate to sidetrack the conversation though, but exactly how can a LS conceivably defeat a CoP wyrm (in this case, Tiamat) with only 11 people. Apperently, a jp LS on siren (priceless, home of the JP ballista royale champions) managed such a feat, I just don't see how it would be viable with so few people.

Not to derail your derail, but I see that you are in Milkman's LS. Is he really as much against endgame as he seems from his editorials?

[Remus]

Not to derail your derail, but I see that you are in Milkman's LS. Is he really as much against endgame as he seems from his editorials?

Actually I think it's more the eliteness that comes from end-game linkshells, not the end game itself.

[Quicklet]

Is he really as much against endgame as he seems from his editorials?

http://www.theorderls.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=6220

That will pretty much answer everything.

I hate to sidetrack the conversation though, but exactly how can a LS conceivably defeat a CoP wyrm (in this case, Tiamat) with only 11 people.

Skill.

[Maxxthepenguin]

Is he really as much against endgame as he seems from his editorials?

http://www.theorderls.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=6220

That will pretty much answer everything.

Meeeh... there wasn't really a discussion. It was article, flame, he posts something, flame. It doesn't really help you come to grips with what he really is like. It seems to me, he just thinks the best way to play the game is to play with friends and if you can't do it with them its not worth it. That's all, and its a respectable opinion, but I'm sure theres more to it than that. Kimiko, dig through the dirt a lil

[Lockecole]

Is he really as much against endgame as he seems from his editorials?

http://www.theorderls.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=6220

That will pretty much answer everything.

[quote:fa3d1]I hate to sidetrack the conversation though, but exactly how can a LS conceivably defeat a CoP wyrm (in this case, Tiamat) with only 11 people.

Skill.[/quote:fa3d1]

Yes he thinks he's against endgame as much as he claims, but he's not really. He's just not familiar with most of the inner-workings of endgame, and doesnt realize that everything you hear isn't true. There are good people in endgame, and it's just like anything, the higher the stakes, and the higher up you go, the more things are dramatized and exxagerated.

And about Priceless killing with 11, IN has killed Tiamat with 14 in the ally. (not including a couple in adds.) I don't see why people think its not possible. People don't realize that alot of jobs are filler. Tank PT (6 people) and a support damage PT (RDM/DRK, BLM, 3 SMNs) 2 MNKs is all we had. If you know what you're doing you only need the necessary jobs to A) Tank the mob and B) Damage it. Everything else is just unnecessary filler, and inturn sometimes can make the battle more of a hassle. I've had smoother Dynamises with 20 people from my LS, then I used to have in a public Dynamis LS with 64. Just how this game works.