Decriminalizing or legalizing marijuana, what do you think?

[Plow]

So when you don't play FFXI or WoW, you get physically ill?

You experience vomiting, diarrhea, even siezures, from not playing FFXI or WoW, given that you're mentally addicted?

Hell no. And you don't with pot either. There's a HUGE difference.

[SephYuyX]

So when you don't play FFXI or WoW, you get physically ill?

You experience vomiting, diarrhea, even siezures, from not playing FFXI or WoW, given that you're mentally addicted?

Hell no. And you don't with pot either. There's a HUGE difference.

Actually, there are some people who do.

[Brendam]

So when you don't play FFXI or WoW, you get physically ill?

You experience vomiting, diarrhea, even siezures, from not playing FFXI or WoW, given that you're mentally addicted?

Hell no. And you don't with pot either. There's a HUGE difference.

hahah that was a bit of an extreme answer, you know how it feels, like most days all you can think about is getting home to either play your new favorite job, or smoke that Joint, just a passing mental addiction, we all get them every day.

[Shaede]

So when you don't play FFXI or WoW, you get physically ill?

You experience vomiting, diarrhea, even siezures, from not playing FFXI or WoW, given that you're mentally addicted?

Hell no. And you don't with pot either. There's a HUGE difference.

*sigh*

You're comparing a severe addiction to a relatively mild one.

I'm terrible with terminology, so I'll just give you the jist of it. Your body is filled with receptors. These receptors get information from chemicals that your body produces or chemicals you artificially put into your body. When these receptors come into contact with a specific chemical frequently, they start changing to accept it more readily (and not accept other chemicals so easily). This is a chemical dependance in your body, where your cells are telling you to satisfy it's needs, which has a profound effect on your actions and thoughts. This is the exact process that creates a dependance on herion, for example. But chemicals aren't limited to herion or other drugs, this also includes chemicals your body naturally releases when you feel different emotions. Feelings such as lust or helplessness tell your body to release chemicals that these same receptors will get used to. Activities that you enjoy give you a particular feeling as well, and sometimes you develop a need to do this activity for your body to release those chemicals. Though it's a phychological addiction originally, it quickly becomes a very physical one. Your brain and the way you think has an amazing impact on your body and can serve you or hinder you. Most doctors don't distinguish between a phychological and physical addiction, as they both entail the same process in your body and produce the same effects. In your above example, you are comparing a severe drug addiction to an online one. With a drug, there are more usually layers of addiction going on in your body then mentioned above, so you will see layers of withdrawl stacking up to produce a much more dangerous reaction, but both are physical. The irony is, most drug addictions begin purely psychological well before your body becomes very dependant.

[kareface]

Sorry I didn't get a chance to proof read the last post. The quote i was going for was "NO direct connection between pot and dopamine" and i was going to adress the other quote later. None the less it was my mistake and I apologise.

Your dog licking your damn toe while you sleep can increase dopamine levels in the brain. Does that mean you're going to get addicted?

But thats a natural dopamine stimulant. Anything that causes unnatural dopamine production, reguardless of how indirect is addictive.

I can go though quoting everything over and over, but its getting tiring and im at work. So I'll just sum it up.

Point out one single lie in anything I've posted.

You said:

What your study shows is that pot has an indirect effect on current dopamine levels. This does not imply dependance in any way.

Edit: I have to note that you can find this informaion in most first year psychology books.

The basis for addiction:
Scientists have long accepted that there is a biological basis for drug addiction, though the exact mechanisms responsible are only now being identified. It is believed that addictive substances create dependence in the user by changing the brain's reward functions, located in the mesolimbic dopamine system—the part of the brain that reinforces certain behaviors such as eating, sexual intercourse, exercise, and social interaction. Addictive substances, through various means and to different degrees, cause the synapses of this system to flood with excessive amounts of dopamine, creating a brief rush of euphoria more commonly called a "high".

Although the high may last only a few minutes, it also produces more longer-lasting effects in the brain. Dopamine signals occurring normally in the reward system (traveling from the ventral tegmental area to the nucleus accumbens) lead to the activation of proteins designed to calm the initial reaction and foster a continued desire to pursue the behavior responsible. Addictive substances create a greater than normal dopamine release, and the subsequent reactions of the brain are greatly exaggerated as well. The amygdala, hippocampus, and frontal cortex associate the use of the drug with intense pleasure and well-being; an association that is strengthened with each exposure, and which over time comes to dominate normal thoughts and desires.

No matter how indirect, UNNATURAL PRODUCTING OF DOPAMINE IS THE BASIS FOR ADDICTION. THERE IS NO WAY YOU CAN BE A PSYCH STUDENT AND NOT UNDERSTAND THIS BASIC FACT. A dog licking your foot is a natural means. In other words your body is reacting to it. On the other hand drugs trick the brain into generating dopamine. (I can't believe I have to explain this to a psych student)

The fact that it is the least direct is the reason why is it one of the least addictive. I'll dumb it down for you: It does the same thing to your brain as other drugs. But takes one of the 4000 other nerual receptors to do it. BUT THERE ARE MANY DRUGS THAT USE INDIRECT ROUTES TO STIMULATE DOPAMINE PRODCTION. So saying that its indirect just means its not AS addictive.

Bah, whatever believe what you want. Again, sorry for any confusion on my previous post, I was in a hurry so I kinda rushed through it.

[Plow]

You're still talking about mental addiction, desire, the belief, feeling, that you need something

I am talking about actual physical dependency where your body cannot fuction properly without it.

A person extremely PHYSICALLY addicted to heroin, or even cocaine or methamphetamines, can quite literally die from not having the substance in their body. This is simply not the case with pot, your body does not begin to require it in order to perform normal function.

Anyway, you're clearly just going to take my words out of context and respond to whatever can be altered to benefit your argument, so clearly I have to resort to bringing out sources of information I can quote directly. I'll get back to you in a day or so, since this is a scientific conversation where the obvious is ignored and only a known source is a valid argument ON A FUCKING VIDEO GAME FORUM.

edit: funny how you ignored this:

A psychological addiction is to the pleasurable feelings, positive reinforcement if you will.

A physical addiction is the positive punishment of the negative effects felt when an addict is without something like heroin.

cuz it explains exactly what I said before, and said again now, AND I even made a little mistake (missed something, more like)

[Shaede]

You didn't even read my post, did you?

No suprised. Oh well.

[Okan]

So when you don't play FFXI or WoW, you get physically ill?

You experience vomiting, diarrhea, even siezures, from not playing FFXI or WoW, given that you're mentally addicted?

Hell no. And you don't with pot either. There's a HUGE difference.

Stress, anxiety, headaches, cramps, sudden bursts of anger... The "withdraws" from not playing FFXI or WoW would be more like this. This could even be related to marijuana. Your mind is craving that sense of a "high" and you would be unable to supply that so your body would send you messages "asking" for it... via stress, headaches, cramps, etc..

[NynJa]

Plow
shut the fuck up, please



Youre just a fuckin stoner who wants to get hiiiiigh without the po-po on your ass.

[Plow]

You didn't even read my post, did you?

No suprised. Oh well.

I did, but when you talked about a "thought process leading to addiction to heroin," I decided not to bother replying.

Stress, anxiety, headaches, cramps, sudden bursts of anger... The "withdraws" from not playing FFXI or WoW would be more like this. This could even be related to marijuana. Your mind is craving that sense of a "high" and you would be unable to supply that so your body would send you messages "asking" for it... via stress, headaches, cramps, etc..

headaches? cramps? from not playing a game? the stress and anger would, again, be mental.

Nynja, you said "pot is for niggers." You can go suck your brother's cock and spit it into your sister, you fucking bumpkin.

[Shaede]

You didn't even read my post, did you?

No suprised. Oh well.

I did, but when you talked about a "thought process leading to addiction to heroin," I decided not to bother replying.

Listen, I agreed with you. They are very different. One is an extremely severe addiction and the other is a relatively mild one. They are both psychological and physical addictions, though. That was the point of my post that you chose to refute without bother reading. Heroin is an extremely dangerous drug, where and an MMORPG is much more mild. That is the difference. The biology of them, though, is the same.

[Okan]

You didn't even read my post, did you?

No suprised. Oh well.

I did, but when you talked about a "thought process leading to addiction to heroin," I decided not to bother replying.

Stress, anxiety, headaches, cramps, sudden bursts of anger... The "withdraws" from not playing FFXI or WoW would be more like this. This could even be related to marijuana. Your mind is craving that sense of a "high" and you would be unable to supply that so your body would send you messages "asking" for it... via stress, headaches, cramps, etc..

headaches? cramps? from not playing a game? the stress and anger would, again, be mental.

Yes, from not playing a game. It is possible. Your body is craving it and you are not supplying it. It's not life threatening. It will be rare cases of people who probably play 18 hours a day for 6 months straight and that's all they have known to do.

[Plow]

You didn't even read my post, did you?

No suprised. Oh well.

I did, but when you talked about a "thought process leading to addiction to heroin," I decided not to bother replying.

Listen, I agreed with you. They are very different. One is an extremely severe addiction and the other is a relatively mild one. They are both psychological and physical addictions, though. That was the point of my post that you chose to refute without bother reading. Heroin is an extremely dangerous drug, where and an MMORPG is much more mild. That is the difference. The biology of them, though, is the same.

Nono, I read it. It's just that when you approached it from the angle of a "thought process," you showed you were, as I've replied to sooo much, talking about mental addiction.

The irony of your post comes in your line about irony. You see, things like heroin, and methadone, and even "weaker" things like valium, IMMMEDIATELY form a physical addiction, where you experience forms of physical withdrawal the moment they're out of your system, even the very first time you use them. You can, quite literally, become physically addicted before you've even felt the effects, therefore before it would even be possible to become mentally addicted.

Sorry, I didn't mean to blow you off like that, it just went in line with what I was already replying to.

Yes, from not playing a game. It is possible. Your body is craving it and you are not supplying it. It's not life threatening. It will be rare cases of people who probably play 18 hours a day for 6 months straight and that's all they have known to do.

At this point you're talking about a serious mental problem involving attachment, not addiction.


Like I said give me a day and I'll write an essay with reputable sourcing to support what I've said.

[Shinryuu]

Legalize pot? Sure, it works in my country (The Netherlands). If someone here wants to smoke a joint, he goes to the coffeeshop, smokes, relaxes a bit, then happily goes home.

Pot smokers do not cause any trouble here. It's mainly drunken idiots who cause trouble. Alcohol is much more dangerous for the community and for yourself than pot is, and besides, it's much easier to drink a large amount of alcohol (even worse).

[Marcatil]

So when you don't play FFXI or WoW, you get physically ill?

You experience vomiting, diarrhea, even siezures, from not playing FFXI or WoW, given that you're mentally addicted?

Hell no. And you don't with pot either. There's a HUGE difference.

There's no difference. Some people can be violently ill from not having their addiction, but some people can still indulge in something yet separate it from reality and make it so it's not a problem.

My old landlord smoked pot, and he was really cool. He wasn't addicted to it or anything, he was casual about it and whatnot. Other people can become violently addicted to such substances (Hi my name is: rehab clinic). The same goes for gambling, video games, etc. Anything is prone to being addictive, such as washing your hands (aka. OCD).

[Gumu]

Sure, that study may show that marijuana is a little bit addictive. I'm just pulling this out of my ass(as in, I'm basing this off of personal experience not scientific facts), but I'd say it's about as addictive as caffeine, maybe even less addictive. Does the addictive qualities of caffeine prevent you from drinking tea or coffee, or consuming the tons and tons of products that contain caffeine? Look at how many people can't function without a glass of coffee every morning. I've never heard a single person say "ban coffee!"...

Please do not argue that because it is addictive, it should be banned.

Please stop the argument over addiction right now. Not only is it not getting anywhere, it's 100% irrelevant to this conversation. I don't give a fuck if some study says that marijuana is addictive, really, I know from extensive experience that it is not significantly addictive to strong willed people, and it's only addictive if you let it. Try quitting cigarettes, drinking, masturbating (lol, threw this in as a joke but seriously... unless you're getting regular sex it's freaking hard to quit lol :wink, then try quitting marijuana and you'll see what we mean when we say it's not addictive.

Ok, now that the pointless addiction crap is out of the way (I can't believe you guys droned on for so long about it...)

Is there anyone reading this who thinks that marijuana should remain illegal and alcohol should remain legal? If so, please think about the issue a little more.

For the guy who keeps bringing up his little story of the stoners who robbed his store: *insert pathetic, sad story about alcohol addiction involving theft*

Alcohol is a fucking bad, bad drug... And yet it is supported by the majority of the world while marijuana is looked down upon. Walk down any city street and chances are you'll run into a bar, or some establishment that sells alcohol.

Why can't people realize that alcohol is not only worse for the user but worse for society than legalized cannabis?

Drunk people are annoying. I can't stand going to parties with a bunch of drunk people, stumbling around, spilling their drinks on me, hogging the bathrooms to pee every 5 minutes/pass out in a pile of their own vomit with the door locked. Drunk people aren't even funny, except in a "haha he's so drunk he *insert stupid thing any sober person wouldn't do*" way. They're also very violent. Luckily I'm very good at talking my way out of fights with large drunk men. I'm talking about really drunk people here.

Drunk people, in society, tend to be very dangerous. Drunk driving. Drunk sex. Drunk fights. Drunk vandalism. Drunk suicide. Drunk people generally are destructive and depressed.

High people, in society, are relatively harmless. Of course, there's the crime involved in selling/buying the drug, but that wouldn't exist if it was legal, obviously. High people tend to be a lot more relaxed and laid back than drunk people. When I'm high, all I really care about is munchies and music/movies/video games. When I'm drunk (I used to drink frequently, however I've recently stopped) it's like it releases a monster in me and I have a hard time controlling myself. The worst is when you lose conciousness of what you're doing and wake up the next day with no idea what happened. Losing control of your body is not fun, and is potentially very dangerous.

So if alcohol is more dangerous for society, then surely marijuana must be much more dangerous for the user since it's illegal, afterall. This is simply not the case. Drinking alcohol and smoking weed are both bad for you. I can't say for sure that either one is worse for you, because I don't care. I can say for sure that alcohol poisoning can kill you. Also, marijuana can be ingested by eating, too, which is quite harmless. I'm sure if marijuana was legalized, we'd see some commercially manufactured weed butter to be used in cooking, which would make it much easier to cook with weed.

So, in my opinion anyways, cannabis is less harmful than alcohol. Why is it illegal then? Well it's already been touched in this thread, but here's some more info. I love wikipedia. Basically, a bunch of fucking stupid americans made it illegal for selfish, ignorant, and racist reasons, then spread their disease around the world and we're still paying for their fucking idiocy.

PROHIBITION DOES NOT WORK. It didn't work with alcohol, and it isn't working with marijuana. Can't we learn from our mistakes? Alcohol prohibition was a complete failure, and it just made criminals out of ordinary people. It's the exact same scenario with marijuana now as it was with alcohol in the early 20th century, can't you people see that? Read this (I know you won't) I love wikipedia. Can't you draw any connections? Are you stupid?

Making marijuana legal will actually improve society. Yes, it will make the world a happier place. The government will end up with a lot more money to waste through taxes. Also, the non-criminals who are in prison will no longer be costing all of us tax dollars to keep them there. Crime: X. Even if more people start smoking, who cares? They're not hurting anybody (unless you hide their food from them).

That was long and I'm sure it was pointless because the only people who are anti-marijuana have their heads too far up their asses to be able to read it anyways.

[Okan]

I don't care... Ban alchohol... I drink like once a year if that.

[NynJa]

Nynja, you said "pot is for niggers." You can go suck your brother's cock and spit it into your sister, you fucking bumpkin.

;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
Too I dont have a brother fuckin stoner. You're just hiiiiiiigh and think I do.

Try living a sober life where you dont see shit that doesnt exist.




Really, how are you going to tell people you arent addicted to weed or obsessed over it ?? Anyone who looks that deep into something isnt doing it because you want to learn. You arent a scientist learning about the scientifics about cannabis, you're a pothead looking to enhance you high and looking for reasons why you should be able to get high without reprucussions.

Accept the fact that it is deemed illegal or gtfo. If you dont like it, go to Amsterdam or whatever where you can smoke allllllllllllllllll day and alllllllllllllllll night.

[Gumu]

Nice trolling Nynja, but us stoners tend to be pacifists so I don't think anyone will bite.

[Gumu]

I don't care... Ban alchohol... I drink like once a year if that.

Yeah prohibition works! Let's ban alcohol! That's exactly what my post was saying!