Quick question. MNK- Shura Togi/Osode

[Sparky]

There are some hNMs where tons of monks can be As someone who used to farm those pendants before some jews undercut it to shit, let me assure you that interrupting Culberry's magic is not done via stun or by hard melee shots.


Though it seems that nivlikan allready told you how the interrupt works.

Nynja, I was just wondering how long you have been a biggot?

[NynJa]

There are some hNMs where tons of monks can be As someone who used to farm those pendants before some jews undercut it to shit, let me assure you that interrupting Culberry's magic is not done via stun or by hard melee shots.


Though it seems that nivlikan allready told you how the interrupt works.

Nynja, I was just wondering how long you have been a biggot?

Before you were born little boy.

[Awoir]

But you could do the same thing with BLM or DRK who sub NIN that have movement and refresh gear with Bio II, or even a NIN with Dokumori.

NIN's movement gear is only at night and that won't be enough, actually one of the few jobs that probably COULDN'T do it that way. If you're going to count something as weak as ninja poison then any job with +movement can do it, WHM/NIN with herald's gaiters and Dia, MNK/NIN with herald's gaiters and chi blast, BRD/NIN with herald's gaiters and elegy, DRG/NIN with crimson and jump, THF/NIN with boots and darts etc.

Think you meant BRD with Requiem? Making him attack slower won't kill him.

[nivlakian]

But you could do the same thing with BLM or DRK who sub NIN that have movement and refresh gear with Bio II, or even a NIN with Dokumori.

NIN's movement gear is only at night and that won't be enough, actually one of the few jobs that probably COULDN'T do it that way. If you're going to count something as weak as ninja poison then any job with +movement can do it, WHM/NIN with herald's gaiters and Dia, MNK/NIN with herald's gaiters and chi blast, BRD/NIN with herald's gaiters and elegy, DRG/NIN with crimson and jump, THF/NIN with boots and darts etc.

Think you meant BRD with Requiem? Making him attack slower won't kill him.

BRD can't wear Herald Gaiter's.

[Eternus]

But you could do the same thing with BLM or DRK who sub NIN that have movement and refresh gear with Bio II, or even a NIN with Dokumori.

NIN's movement gear is only at night and that won't be enough, actually one of the few jobs that probably COULDN'T do it that way. If you're going to count something as weak as ninja poison then any job with +movement can do it, WHM/NIN with herald's gaiters and Dia, MNK/NIN with herald's gaiters and chi blast, BRD/NIN with herald's gaiters and elegy, DRG/NIN with crimson and jump, THF/NIN with boots and darts etc.

BRD can't equip Herald's gaiters

[Genosync]

But you could do the same thing with BLM or DRK who sub NIN that have movement and refresh gear with Bio II, or even a NIN with Dokumori.

NIN's movement gear is only at night and that won't be enough, actually one of the few jobs that probably COULDN'T do it that way. If you're going to count something as weak as ninja poison then any job with +movement can do it, WHM/NIN with herald's gaiters and Dia, MNK/NIN with herald's gaiters and chi blast, BRD/NIN with herald's gaiters and elegy, DRG/NIN with crimson and jump, THF/NIN with boots and darts etc.

LOLOLLOLOLOL why so bad at game

[Charitwo]

But you could do the same thing with BLM or DRK who sub NIN that have movement and refresh gear with Bio II, or even a NIN with Dokumori.

NIN's movement gear is only at night and that won't be enough, actually one of the few jobs that probably COULDN'T do it that way. If you're going to count something as weak as ninja poison then any job with +movement can do it, WHM/NIN with herald's gaiters and Dia, MNK/NIN with herald's gaiters and chi blast, BRD/NIN with herald's gaiters and elegy, DRG/NIN with crimson and jump, THF/NIN with boots and darts etc.

BRD can't equip Herald's gaiters

Also, Fluxigimp, Elegy is slow, Requiem is DoT.

[Septimus]

But you could do the same thing with BLM or DRK who sub NIN that have movement and refresh gear with Bio II, or even a NIN with Dokumori.

NIN's movement gear is only at night and that won't be enough, actually one of the few jobs that probably COULDN'T do it that way. If you're going to count something as weak as ninja poison then any job with +movement can do it, WHM/NIN with herald's gaiters and Dia, MNK/NIN with herald's gaiters and chi blast, BRD/NIN with herald's gaiters and elegy, DRG/NIN with crimson and jump, THF/NIN with boots and darts etc.

BRD can't equip Herald's gaiters

Also, Fluxigimp, Elegy is slow, Requiem is DoT.

But I think the point is, Red Mage is not the only job capable of DoTing a mob to death, but Avesta is one of a very few people crazy/brave/skilled enough to do it.

[Charitwo]

Nah, I was just poking fun at him for thinking Elegy was a DoT along with thinking BRD can equip Gaiters.

P.S. plz update front page, 1 month it has been

[Septimus]

Nah, I was just poking fun at him for thinking Elegy was a DoT along with thinking BRD can equip Gaiters.

P.S. plz update front page, 1 month it has been

Tell my damn linkshell members to give me more screenshots including ones of people in the gear they got since the last update.

It's like pulling teeth. >_<

(No wonder Nikkei scammed me into doing updates.)

[Not Kuno]

Just make an update with what you have. If people don't wanna get a SS leave em out of it.

[FFXIFlux]

Also, Fluxigimp, Elegy is slow, Requiem is DoT.

I realized it after but I couldn't be bothered to correct it since it's pretty obvious to anyone with at least half a brain what was meant. I get the two confused since elegey and requiem mean practicaly the same damn thing:

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=requiem
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=elegy

Anyway, thought Bards were on Herald's Gaiters list, guess they're shit out of luck. Guess you'd have to go SMN/NIN tossing elementals in front of it instead.

[Lockecole]

Also, Fluxigimp, Elegy is slow, Requiem is DoT.

I realized it after but I couldn't be bothered to correct it since it's pretty obvious to anyone with at least half a brain what was meant. I get the two confused since elegey and requiem mean practicaly the same damn thing:

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=requiem
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=elegy

Mean practically the same thing in that they're both some type of song? Wow, imagine that...being a BARD and all. One's about Mass, one's a song sung when someone dies. Hardly the same thing. :wink:

[layoneil]

Requiem gets resisted like hell for anything that matters too.

[Lockecole]

Requiem gets resisted like hell for anything that matters too.

lol while we're on the matter, Im almost 99% sure Requiem can't even be stuck on statues. Light based mob, light based song. (I know birds in Lufaise can't, Im a little sketchy on Statues. If it is stickable, its hard to.)

[Awoir]

lol while we're on the matter, Im almost 99% sure Requiem can't even be stuck on statues. Light based mob, light based song. (I know birds in Lufaise can't, Im a little sketchy on Statues. If it is stickable, its hard to.)

It is stickable(Is that a word?), just not reliable, at all.

[FFXIFlux]

It is stickable(Is that a word?), just not reliable, at all.

Mmm, which reminds me. We thought that only BLM sleep built up resistance and bards could sleep mobs forever. We learned otherwise at a Vtra not too long ago. Was this something that got nerfed after the BLM sleep resistance change or was it changed at the same time?

[genome]

Hey Taku, one more thing I wanted to ask was do you have the totals too?
Using averages and multiplying by accuracy is still not as accurate as getting the actual totals because there's still variability in what hits actually connected especially in terms of criticals and weaponskills.
Please post if you have them, your test was one of the most interesting things to come out of this discussion at least for me, thanks :D

P.S. If i multiply just average by accuracy:
togi+meat: 121.8*.885 = 107.793
osode+meat: 121.7*.896 = 109.0432

togi+sushi: 105.9*.958 = 101.4522
osode+sushi: 104.1*.945 = 98.3745
from this the best setup even for total dmg seems osode+meat, but I don't know if it includes criticals (although criticals percent and total dmg is higher from osode, but maybe it was counted in the averages already?), or ws (which is again highest for osode+meat, but I can't add this in the total without knowing total dmg from ws vs total dmg from hits)

Very nice test and parse Taku :D .
I also think looking at those numbers that they show osode doing way better, like skyylya pointed out =P

Aside from the small sample (but 100 is still decent), they are really good tests because they are on the same person. Also it was a good idea to have 1 of them use sushi and 1 meat to compare the effect on both, and remove ghosts because an asuran done before vs after banish kicks in might have messed up your numbers.
On the monk using meat (ardebaron) really every stat is boosted a lot by osode compared to togi, on the one using sushi it's a bit more half and half (only crit, crit%, counter% and dmg taken are improved by osode there).

About the difference between sushi and meat, yeah they are small, the main advocates of "OMG if you are not eating meat you should die" or "OMG if you are not eating sushi you should die" are OBVIOUSLY secretly paid to say that by the american beef association cartel (beef:it's what's for dinner!) and the japanese yakuza sushi cartel, respectively.

Edit: forgot to quote the test again (might be hard to see what I was referring to)

So.... I decided to actually parse Togi vs. Osode, and after a few runs in KRT today, here's what I came up with:

MNK1(Ardebaron):
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a1...kuchan0955.jpg
Galka MNK with capped merits.
Food: Hedgehog Pie
Macros in Flame Gorget, Power Sandles, Shura Haidate, Enky Bracelets for WS.

MNK2(Danorille):
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a1...kuchan0956.jpg
Elvaan MNK with capped merits.
Food: Sole Sushi
Macros in Shura Haidate only for WS.

I didn't include myself, since I don't have Togi... -.- Anyways, I was using FFrep for a parser, and took the ghosts out of the calculations to hopefully make the results more consistent. BRD was using MinuetIV and March for songs... typical RDM/WHM/BRD/MNKx3 set up.

Results:

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a1...kuchan0960.jpg

[Taku]

I can get the totals if you really want them, but they're not as accurate as averages because:

1. The total number of damage a mnk does is relative to the PT, in the sense that if a MNK goes afk or just sux, then it's going to bring up the other MNK's total.

2. They were over the course of different runs, and the few other PT's that wandered in and out of KRT duration affected the total as well. If we killed 72 mobs with the Shura Togi's, and only 64 with the Osode's, the Togi total's are going to come up as more.

3. We all died atleast once during the duration of the PT, and that would throw off the totals... I died 3x ~_~ (Sorry, I'm Taru)

4. You gotta also think that the stats are so similar, that if one person engages late on a fight, cause of Haste animation lag or something, he's going to show up as the lower total... which would lead to incorrect implications about which is "better."


As far as the parse results, the "Damage Per Hit' is the average damage of all attacks(crit and non crit). Then I broke it up into Non-Crit average and Crit average, with the % of crit's.... so you calculated the right numbers together.

One thing I noticed you're ignoring about your calculations is that the increased accuracy with Sushi is going to lead to more WSes.

Also, you can't compare the MNK's against eachother, mainly cause Arde is using Dune Boots which really ups his damage per hit(Cause the parser can't differentiate kicks from punches), different races, different gear set up besides the control, etc.


Ardebaron, who is an obsessed parser, told me that my sample is too small and there's too many variances in KRT for it to be reliable, and I agree(He thinks Togi is better btw). He said he noticed a huge increase in accuracy with Togi over Osode on D.Weapons, and his parse results were a lot more consistent than ours were in KRT. I'm not sure what parser he uses, but FFrep(the one I use) has this wonderful function of being able to filter mob lvl's as well... so you can check your average damage vs. the lvl 78 skeletons, 79 skeletons, 80 skeletons, etc... but it doesn't work with merits and my exp is capped on all my merit-friendly jobs at 75 so I can't use it anymore.

We both agreed we're really "splitting hairs at their ends" in trying to find out which parses more in the sense that with all the +STR and +Att from other gear/songs vs. VT mobs that the difference is going to be hardly noticeable... and it's to the point where for my next experiment I plan to wear nothing but destroyers and any gear with haste, eat sushi and see if I can keep up damage-wise.

[genome]

You're right. Mostly the damage I would like to add in is ws damage (and counters too but that might be hard) maybe one way to do this is to normalize by comparing the total damage from melee hits vs total from ws for each person as percentages, then add it in to the final avgdmg*acc value (like, per each ~100 dmg from punches that actually connected, you also did say 45 dmg from ws, per player). That should account for differences with sushi etc too. If you can provide some number like that for that test i would appreciate it, thx :wink:
Also yeah I agree on other situations like in sky pt, ule pt, etc you'd need separate tests, still i think yours is pretty interesting and valid for KRT by itself.