Regarding the additions for PLD in next update

[Genosync]

the problem with paladin is that no one knows how to play the job at a higher level.

also there exists the problems of idiots leveling it thinking they're some big massive shield and will save everyone in their pt, then fails to realize that they have to use their MP to do it, and equip themselves properly.

Plds don't really have that much mp to use >.> how many mp can get they with refresh each minute? 60? so in 2 minutes they can get only like 140 hp (with the new earring), with that you can only throw a cure 4 and 3 flashs, that's why plds can't really use mp a lot in long fights with hnms and shit

Edit: If SE wants to fix Pld/War to be on par with Blink tanks, make VIT and DEF actually have large noticeable differences against high level mobs when stacked.

Agree, that's only thing they need to fix pld :/

oh shii

ballad+march+ninsj

oh shii, xp pt, 1mob/2.5min, rest one tick inbetween each fight, oh shiiiiiiiiiii 3mp/tick+temp1mp/tickcloak+30mprest=160mp

OH SHIT!

[Altabas]

This post was talking about high lvl exp partys and hnms... you don't have time to rest each 2 minutes against nms or equip vermillion cloak, and exp pts where it takes 2 mins and half to kill the mobs just suck

[Genosync]

High level PLDs sub nin.

On another note, ever done a PLDpt in sky? on statues?

BRD SMN PLDx4, got like 8k/hr, which is pretty good for plds that aren't leeching off other melees

discuss

[Eternus]

High level PLDs sub nin.

On another note, ever done a PLDpt in sky? on statues?

BRD SMN PLDx4, got like 8k/hr, which is pretty good for plds that aren't leeching off other melees

discuss

lmao I did a xp pt in KRT that was MNK MNK PLD/WAR (skill up GS spamming Spinning Slash) BRD BRD RDM and we got constant chain 19- 25 for about 10k a hour. PLD isn't bad.. well not if you got Kayne as MNK in your pt as MNK pumping out 42% of the dmg (Kayne was the first NA to hit 75 on Ifrit). The 2x BRD though was insane since we did 2x march and 2x minuet if I remember correctly. Was like feeding skeletons through a paper shredder and we had 2 BRD alternate pulling... would have done better if we didn't kill so fast that we had to wait for repops.

[SwampdonkeyPLD]

Pld isn't broken, the damage ratios in this game are. The Def/Atk ratios and Vit/Str ratios against end-game mobs are broken.

Pld/nin argueably is a better tank than Nin/War. In a situation where DD isn't a huge factor for hate, Pld/nin will usually generate more hate. Pld as a job isn't the problem here. Its the fact that even strats that involve Pld/War use tactics to Blink away damage(hi@AA rot). As you can see, there's nothing wrong with the job, its just that no matter how much VIT/DEF you pack on, you're still gonna be a much larger MP sink than a Blink tank would be due to the way the damage formulas work against PCs, and the extra hate you get will be miniscule compared to a Pld/nin because getting hit sheds a ton of hate.

Edit: If SE wants to fix Pld/War to be on par with Blink tanks, make VIT and DEF actually have large noticeable differences against high level mobs when stacked.

A ls mate and I parsed koenig on fafnir. I had all koenig but the body and he was wearing full AF2. The only other difference was the shadow mantle I was wearing vs. his gigant. We were only able to do 12 hits total. (I know thats not enough hits to constitute anything serious, but he was getting absolutely obliterated. Regular hits for over 300 and crits for about 450+ occasionally. He was taking way to much dmg to keep going.) The difference in our average dmg was about 40 dmg a hit. Obviously vit and def do do something, but I think you are right, it should do more. But since this is a PLD vs NIN argument, I think the problem is a ninja can just go to the AH, grab some Arhats +1 and an e staff. Then their dmg taken is just as good as a full koenig PLD. A PLD can't simply hit up the AH to get koenig.

[Eternus]

[ A PLD can't simply hit up the AH to get koenig.

As it should be... the best gear in any game should never be sellable... that is my problem with a few MMOs.. the best shit can be farmed by RMT and sold to players. Technically this could be done with abjurations.. but it is more difficult.

On topic, PLD is a wasted DD slot in most merit point parties... WAR and NIN own them hard in damage and can tank fine considering the extremely short amount of time the mob stays alive haha.

[Hirronimus]

1. You basically repeated everything i said back at me like a fucking idiot..

Learn to read /and/ write.

2. If you cant keep hate better than a nin lvling 1-75 you fucking suck balls cause not only does the mob pwn your hp it also pwns your mp and you cant even keep the party alive..pretty usless tank their hirro...

I'm sure NIN 1-37 holds hate oh so much more better than PLD. It's there, not their, see my first reply about writing. And where did you see PLD being main healer for PT, it's PLD job's to get hit and use their MP to keep hate so he keeps getting hit. That's what the WHM and Refresher there to do, help PLD.

For me i kno what im good at and wat im lacking i know the limits to my job.. Unlike you who thinks his perfect and so is his job...ya right lawl thats one thing i do hate about alot of plds it's like they come naturally stupid and cocky

Have you tanked anything outside of EXP PT on your NIN? Oh wait, you quit as 73 if I remember right. I tanked vs NINs as /war and /nin I know the job's limits and capabilities, hense my confidence. I don't state anything I don't know personally. You on the other hand...

Ohh and please lvl Ninja and never lose hate with 4 blms in your party doing nothing but nuking.. plz go right ahead.. Ohh and when you fail..yes you will fail dumbass, stfu plz kthxbai..

Thanks, I'll take that under consideration, but remember this. I've tanked on with 6-7 BLMs nuking, have you? So just STFU

Anyways... how about that Shield update?

[Palin]

Pld isn't broken, the damage ratios in this game are. The Def/Atk ratios and Vit/Str ratios against end-game mobs are broken.

Pld/nin argueably is a better tank than Nin/War. In a situation where DD isn't a huge factor for hate, Pld/nin will usually generate more hate. Pld as a job isn't the problem here. Its the fact that even strats that involve Pld/War use tactics to Blink away damage(hi@AA rot). As you can see, there's nothing wrong with the job, its just that no matter how much VIT/DEF you pack on, you're still gonna be a much larger MP sink than a Blink tank would be due to the way the damage formulas work against PCs, and the extra hate you get will be miniscule compared to a Pld/nin because getting hit sheds a ton of hate.

Edit: If SE wants to fix Pld/War to be on par with Blink tanks, make VIT and DEF actually have large noticeable differences against high level mobs when stacked.

A ls mate and I parsed koenig on fafnir. I had all koenig but the body and he was wearing full AF2. The only other difference was the shadow mantle I was wearing vs. his gigant. We were only able to do 12 hits total. (I know thats not enough hits to constitute anything serious, but he was getting absolutely obliterated. Regular hits for over 300 and crits for about 450+ occasionally. He was taking way to much dmg to keep going.) The difference in our average dmg was about 40 dmg a hit. Obviously vit and def do do something, but I think you are right, it should do more. But since this is a PLD vs NIN argument, I think the problem is a ninja can just go to the AH, grab some Arhats +1 and an e staff. Then their dmg taken is just as good as a full koenig PLD. A PLD can't simply hit up the AH to get koenig.

Agreed, lets do some math.

Full Koenig gives +60 VIT.

Full Valor gives... +5. (Lawl )

I would sure as hell hope +55 VIT would do at least 40 damage average. But +55 is HUGE. It should be double or more of an effect than that. And to work in the context of making Pld meat tanking more MP effiecient than Blink tanking, it might have to do even triple that to conserve the same amount of MP. Its just not enough for the amount of raw +Stat you're stacking up. Damage ratios need to be fixed, or the Defense difference between mage and tank armour needs to be fixed. Can take a hint from WoW here, kinda stupid that mage armor and Pld armor only have a roughly 10 armor difference, when it takes about +100 to make a huge difference on HNMs.

[Julian]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...pics/pldmp.jpg<3

That's /nin too.. I love playing PLD, kinda depressing how people are always discriminating on me cause I'm taru, so I hardly get to play it. :/

I'm looking foward to the update, but my shield skill isn't leveled ._. I started switching between staff and shield/sword when I hit 51, trying to keep my shield/sword capped, but the instant I hit 60 I got rid of them forever. 6 Staff Merits + Spirit Taker = <3, especially with a brd.

[Tymon]

Pld isn't broken, the damage ratios in this game are. The Def/Atk ratios and Vit/Str ratios against end-game mobs are broken.

Pld/nin argueably is a better tank than Nin/War. In a situation where DD isn't a huge factor for hate, Pld/nin will usually generate more hate. Pld as a job isn't the problem here. Its the fact that even strats that involve Pld/War use tactics to Blink away damage(hi@AA rot). As you can see, there's nothing wrong with the job, its just that no matter how much VIT/DEF you pack on, you're still gonna be a much larger MP sink than a Blink tank would be due to the way the damage formulas work against PCs, and the extra hate you get will be miniscule compared to a Pld/nin because getting hit sheds a ton of hate.

Edit: If SE wants to fix Pld/War to be on par with Blink tanks, make VIT and DEF actually have large noticeable differences against high level mobs when stacked.

A ls mate and I parsed koenig on fafnir. I had all koenig but the body and he was wearing full AF2. The only other difference was the shadow mantle I was wearing vs. his gigant. We were only able to do 12 hits total. (I know thats not enough hits to constitute anything serious, but he was getting absolutely obliterated. Regular hits for over 300 and crits for about 450+ occasionally. He was taking way to much dmg to keep going.) The difference in our average dmg was about 40 dmg a hit. Obviously vit and def do do something, but I think you are right, it should do more. But since this is a PLD vs NIN argument, I think the problem is a ninja can just go to the AH, grab some Arhats +1 and an e staff. Then their dmg taken is just as good as a full koenig PLD. A PLD can't simply hit up the AH to get koenig.

Agreed, lets do some math.

Full Koenig gives +60 VIT.

Full Valor gives... +5. (Lawl )

I would sure as hell hope +55 VIT would do at least 40 damage average. But +55 is HUGE. It should be double or more of an effect than that. And to work in the context of making Pld meat tanking more MP effiecient than Blink tanking, it might have to do even triple that to conserve the same amount of MP. Its just not enough for the amount of raw +Stat you're stacking up. Damage ratios need to be fixed, or the Defense difference between mage and tank armour needs to be fixed. Can take a hint from WoW here, kinda stupid that mage armor and Pld armor only have a roughly 10 armor difference, when it takes about +100 to make a huge difference on HNMs.

there's a guy on quetz with full kaiser and defending ring, he gets hit for like 90-150 dmg by faf

[Krandor]

there's a guy on quetz with full kaiser and defending ring, he gets hit for like 90-150 dmg by faf

A shame a NIN with Arhat's+1, Terra's Staff, and Defending Ring would be getting hit for exactly the same ._.

[SwampdonkeyPLD]

Pld isn't broken, the damage ratios in this game are. The Def/Atk ratios and Vit/Str ratios against end-game mobs are broken.

Pld/nin argueably is a better tank than Nin/War. In a situation where DD isn't a huge factor for hate, Pld/nin will usually generate more hate. Pld as a job isn't the problem here. Its the fact that even strats that involve Pld/War use tactics to Blink away damage(hi@AA rot). As you can see, there's nothing wrong with the job, its just that no matter how much VIT/DEF you pack on, you're still gonna be a much larger MP sink than a Blink tank would be due to the way the damage formulas work against PCs, and the extra hate you get will be miniscule compared to a Pld/nin because getting hit sheds a ton of hate.

Edit: If SE wants to fix Pld/War to be on par with Blink tanks, make VIT and DEF actually have large noticeable differences against high level mobs when stacked.

A ls mate and I parsed koenig on fafnir. I had all koenig but the body and he was wearing full AF2. The only other difference was the shadow mantle I was wearing vs. his gigant. We were only able to do 12 hits total. (I know thats not enough hits to constitute anything serious, but he was getting absolutely obliterated. Regular hits for over 300 and crits for about 450+ occasionally. He was taking way to much dmg to keep going.) The difference in our average dmg was about 40 dmg a hit. Obviously vit and def do do something, but I think you are right, it should do more. But since this is a PLD vs NIN argument, I think the problem is a ninja can just go to the AH, grab some Arhats +1 and an e staff. Then their dmg taken is just as good as a full koenig PLD. A PLD can't simply hit up the AH to get koenig.

Agreed, lets do some math.

Full Koenig gives +60 VIT.

Full Valor gives... +5. (Lawl )

I would sure as hell hope +55 VIT would do at least 40 damage average. But +55 is HUGE. It should be double or more of an effect than that. And to work in the context of making Pld meat tanking more MP effiecient than Blink tanking, it might have to do even triple that to conserve the same amount of MP. Its just not enough for the amount of raw +Stat you're stacking up. Damage ratios need to be fixed, or the Defense difference between mage and tank armour needs to be fixed. Can take a hint from WoW here, kinda stupid that mage armor and Pld armor only have a roughly 10 armor difference, when it takes about +100 to make a huge difference on HNMs.

The difference was 42 vit exactly, which was nearly the difference in our avg damage. I would be highly interested in a parse between a full koenig PLD and a PLD in full darksteel +1 >.> If the PLD in full darksteel +1 did better than the full koenig PLD then geez laweez.

[Hirronimus]

How about them PLDs who use King's Cuirass etc etc...?

[SwampdonkeyPLD]

How about them PLDs who use King's Cuirass etc etc...?

They look like they got mistook for a urinal.

[Amara]

The job isn't broken, its a matter of most of the shit in this game is about effeciency, and blinktanking is far more efficient than taking ridiculous amounts of damage from every hit. Its the same reason why people throw blms at everything, only use samurais on hnms, and smns at cop wyrms.

What they need to do, to make it equal for endgame, is add some serious adjustments to the defense traits pld has (ie make it so we have a base -damage% that increases with level, instead of the extra defense), or overhaul vit and defense entirely so they don't have such diminishing returns.

I've noticed personally that koenig doesnt exactly lower the damage you take by much, over wearing gear with +0 vit. Things that can kill you in three hits will still kill you in three hits, the only big difference is the extra hp. :/ Sure, its alot better than other gear pld can use, but thats mainly because the job doesnt have something comparable to a scorpion harness or hauberk.

[Tahngarthor]

I dont really see why you guys ( including PLDs) are complaining about a BUFF. Just ebcause you dont think you need it, it's a bad thing? If you think you did good before, you should be doing even better after this. I see no reason to complain. Personally, I prefer NIN tanks at the moment (as a SMN) in EXP parties because it lets me use more of my abilities instead of just being a gimped healer with a lot of MP. But with this change, maybe some plds will be more motivated to use their MP effectively and make jobs like mine easier when it comes to having PLDs tank.

man I expect ppl from a job to bitch and/or quit their class if they get even a tiny nerf. But I hever expected anyone to complain about a boost.

[Elryc]

All I want to do is find a PLD that actually uses the COVER JA once in a while. I mean, honestly, that thing could be a huge lifesaver and it lets the PLD let someone else (DD, WHM) generate hate for him, yet I've seen it maybe 3 times in in almost 75 levels of BLM...

[Lordwafik]

What they need to change with cover , is put an icon on the person you are covering, so they know to run back , and the icon's message would be something like "You are being covered by a Paladin, stand behind the Paladin to receive the effects".

Alot of times the PLD wants to cover someone, and the pld would move to them, and that person moves to where the pld was, keep doing this 2 or 3 times etc, FUCKING UP MY SA+TA

Would be nice if the PLD threw a cover on someone, then they see the icon and run behind pld.

Also would be nice like in FF4, if the pld insta-covers anyone who has low HP. <3 Cecil, such a cool PLD, with his 870 HP @ lvl12, and cure2 for 480

[Janice]

I don't know why some people are bringing endgame into this discussion when they refer to PLD changes. (Yeah, I realize my initial comment was about endgame. >_>)I believe the difference is NIN/WAR being >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> better then PLD/WAR or PLD/NIN when it comes to merit PTs, and normal PTs.

Get a good NIN/WAR, an uber NIN/WAR @75...and you're talking a job that can compete with Ridill WARs. SE is just trying to make it so that PLD is considered more often in EXP PTs, for other things it may open up...like the option of not needing a RDM for refresh, or other things.

End game should be thought of when dealing with these changes. SE is making it so PLD's are better in xp parties. Right now, NIN really is better. But as always SE is thinking about lvling and not endgame. So for LS's who use PLD/NIN to tank, this is just a big bonus for endgame. Who cares about xp parties.

[Razz]

What they need to change with cover , is put an icon on the person you are covering, so they know to run back , and the icon's message would be something like "You are being covered by a Paladin, stand behind the Paladin to receive the effects".

Alot of times the PLD wants to cover someone, and the pld would move to them, and that person moves to where the pld was, keep doing this 2 or 3 times etc, FUCKING UP MY SA+TA

Would be nice if the PLD threw a cover on someone, then they see the icon and run behind pld.

Also would be nice like in FF4, if the pld insta-covers anyone who has low HP. <3 Cecil, such a cool PLD, with his 870 HP @ lvl12, and cure2 for 480

Would be nice if Cover worked like an auto draw-in, so when you use it on your mage who is running the fuck away from the mob, he'd get teleported behind you :3