Scientology

[Raivyn]

P.S. maybe you quibble over definitions and post dictionary entries to make yourself feel smarter? Or maybe youre still upset that I had a rostrums run when KB had a chance to pop that one time and you didnt get your BB item and felt the need to snipe at me here months later.

Nice ninja edit.

Look nicollette, our world has something called 'rules'. If you don't adhere to these 'rules' then you get slapped in the face by the people who do. If you want to blur the already clear distinctions between the definitions of words then be my guest - everyone can see you changing your argument, and it only works to my advantage.

I post here because I hate it when people run their mouth on topics they have very shallow understandings of. Put up or shut up. Last thing anyone in this world needs is someone spewing of baseless drivel. You might as well be a dirty bum talking about alien apocalypse, or a science fiction writer inventing a religion.

[Shaede]

No I certainly was not. I've never had the pleasure of attending a good church.

Aren't you the one who said that the people at your church saw the Bible as a book of stories that were supposed to teach values, rather than some strict word of god?

That was someone else entirely, I merely agreed with that statement.

[Raivyn]

Prop up morality = stupid

find (illegitimate][implied]) ways to feel better about themselves = stupid/weak

have a basis to attack other's actions that aren't rooted in reality = delusional/stupid/asshole quality behavior.

morality and intelligence arent the same thing, might want to grab that dictionary again.

By trying to say that I am trying to equate morality to intelligence you are displaying one of two things;

1) You are trying to change your argument (grasping at straws)

or

2) You have extremely poor reading comprehension - in which case all of your ignorance is forgiven because you must be LD.

both discredit you - which is it?

religion is a great support institution, if you dont think it is, then youve never been in a religion or around one.

Look, quit trying to back pedal. You have already said that only weak stupid people buy into religion, that's a pretty harsh view. Don't try to get all fuzzy by saying it's actually a good thing. You're not gaining any ground.

claiming that your neighbor cant marry his same sex partner because god hates gays isnt rooted in reality. Claiming black people are less than human because black = mark of cain, isnt rooted in reality. Staking matthew shepard to a fence and then boycotting his funeral because god hates homosexuals, or women not being considered equals (and not even being able to be declared so with a US amendment because its opposed every time by religious conservatives with antiquated views) with white men because god made women naturally inferior all examples of what i guess youd call "asshole" behavior, and yet theyre all examples of using religion to attack someone without a basis in reality (other than perhaps a desire for power and control - which is never a reason)

Yes, these are all examples of horrible applications of religious extremism in my opinion.

all examples of what i guess youd call "asshole" behavior, and yet theyre all examples of using religion to attack someone without a basis in reality

Do you think you're arguing against me by saying this? Anyhow, thanks for proving my point.

Bolded portion is just so stupefyingly senseless that I won't even bother commenting.

Dont even remember the rest of your post, youre just being contrary.

This is code for; "I don't have a counter argument to anything else you said and I don't want to admit that I'm wrong".

Oh right, that mind your own business thing? that was "Dont legislate my bedroom you hypermoralistic bible thumper", i was being PC.

So, you don't want people to preach to you, but you think it's ok to preach to others? Here's a tip - if you don't want to be preached to, shut your mouth and walk away. You can't spew all the crap you want and then say "and nobody can tell me differently because that would be wrong!". You're entitled to your completely baseless opinion on religion (recap: that being that only idiots and assholes buy into faith systems), but keep it to yourself.

[Orchid]

Nahh I just dont like playing the quotewar game youre fond of.
You cant write a consistent rebuttal so you take things sentence by sentence and make snarky comments about word choice, or say things that make apparently no sense like "you cant dress up a turd."
I never said that all adherents of a religion were (gah have to go find your stupid misquote) "[for] only idiots and assholes," I DID say that I believed that the VAST majority of adherents to a religion are there for what the religion promises them.
You dont seem to grasp the idea that religion can be a support tool, that it has both positive and negative effects on the world, or that I can dislike the concept of religion, especially one patently and admittedly made up like Scientology, but still find value in the idea itself and in some of its applications.
You cant ignore things that you claim are simply religious extremism as things external to religion.
Theyre part and parcel and you really need to learn to take the good with the bad. If youre going to promote religion as a positive thing you need to (at least to yourself) be able to acknowledge that bad things do derive from that course of (faith?) action.
Making stupid statements like I must have poor comprehension or that im backpedaling or ignorant or preachy dont make you right. You need to be able to argue your point, not just make jabs at mine, and so far you havent exhibited anything remotely like a counterarguement.
Do you think that religion is accross the board positive? Do you think that anyone who doesnt agree that god/jehova/isis/general zod isnt the ONE TRUE GOD is a moron? what are you trying to say?
You also need to learn the difference between debate and preaching.
The difference between thought and action might be nice too. Taking a statement like mine about how religious people shouldnt have the right to control the actions two consenting adults take in their bedroom and saying first that theyre somehow forcing the people outside that interpsonal relationship to do something, and second attacking me for "preaching to others" regarding that same line illustrates you clearly dont understand the issue at all. I dont care what you think of it, but I dont think anyone outside that bedroom gets any say other than maybe to ask them to keep the noise down.
I state opinions on this, a forum of opinions, and you disagree. Thats fine. But have a position and state it instead of just making bitter personal attacks.

edit: punctuation and de-wall-o-texting.
edit: went and checked last post again for missed things.
You wrote the bit about prop up morality equates stupidity. I wrote that the two concepts are different and you should look them up, and then you attacked me for you equating the two terms? I'm completely at a loss to explain your thinking there.

[Raivyn]

Nahh I just dont like playing the quotewar game youre fond of.
You cant write a consistent rebuttal so you take things sentence by sentence and make snarky comments about word choice, or say things that make apparently no sense like "you cant dress up a turd."
I never said that all adherents of a religion were (gah have to go find your stupid misquote) "[for] only idiots and assholes," I DID say that I believed that the VAST majority of adherents to a religion are there for what the religion promises them.
You dont seem to grasp the idea that religion can be a support tool, that it has both positive and negative effects on the world, or that I can dislike the concept of religion, especially one patently and admittedly made up like Scientology, but still find value in the idea itself and in some of its applications.
You cant ignore things that you claim are simply religious extremism as things external to religion.
Theyre part and parcel and you really need to learn to take the good with the bad. If youre going to promote religion as a positive thing you need to (at least to yourself) be able to acknowledge that bad things do derive from that course of (faith?) action.
Making stupid statements like I must have poor comprehension or that im backpedaling or ignorant or preachy dont make you right. You need to be able to argue your point, not just make jabs at mine, and so far you havent exhibited anything remotely like a counterarguement.
Do you think that religion is accross the board positive? Do you think that anyone who doesnt agree that god/jehova/isis/general zod isnt the ONE TRUE GOD is a moron? what are you trying to say?
You also need to learn the difference between debate and preaching.
The difference between thought and action might be nice too. Taking a statement like mine about how religious people shouldnt have the right to control the actions two consenting adults take in their bedroom and saying first that theyre somehow forcing the people outside that interpsonal relationship to do something, and second attacking me for "preaching to others" regarding that same line illustrates you clearly dont understand the issue at all. I dont care what you think of it, but I dont think anyone outside that bedroom gets any say other than maybe to ask them to keep the noise down.
I state opinions on this, a forum of opinions, and you disagree. Thats fine. But have a position and state it instead of just making bitter personal attacks.

edit: punctuation and de-wall-o-texting.
edit: went and checked last post again for missed things.
You wrote the bit about prop up morality equates stupidity. I wrote that the two concepts are different and you should look them up, and then you attacked me for you equating the two terms? I'm completely at a loss to explain your thinking there.

Actually I'm making counterpoints to your completely ridiculous assumption that religion is simply a tool for the weak, but you seem to be having real trouble comprehending what I'm saying and I don't know why. I did not mention any stance on any issue you have mentioned, the only position I have stated is that not everyone who is religious is suckered into it or using it to exploit people. Evidence of this is in the fact that the majority of people who label themselves as having faith also don't actively participate, but I digress. My main purpose here is to stop you from talking out your ass.

Anyways, I'll make my very organized very concise counterpointargument later, I'm busy relaxing atm. I hope you can do better in your next post than just making a poor attempt to slander me. Your sensationalist crybaby approach will not work, and I know you can put up a better fight than just stuffing words in my mouth.

[Orchid]

I could almost swear that you just said you were making counterpoints, and that you havent taken any stance in almost if not exactly the same sentence as a rebuttal to me saying that youre not taking any stances and only making snarky off topic and pointless responses.

get a stance. express it. back it up and we can have this fight you came here to provoke.

[Raivyn]

I could almost swear that you just said you were making counterpoints, and that you havent taken any stance in almost if not exactly the same sentence as a rebuttal to me saying that youre not taking any stances and only making snarky off topic and pointless responses.

get a stance. express it. back it up and we can have this fight you came here to provoke.

I did not mention any stance on any issue you have mentioned, the only position I have stated is that not everyone who is religious is suckered into it or using it to exploit people.

Once again, reading comprehension. Don't stuff words in my mouth, I'm not saying gay marriage is wrong and you know it.

Maybe you should think before you post - your answer was right there in what I said. Read more carefully.

[Shaede]

I think we can all agree that religion projects something that cannot be expressed with words alone. Be it supernatural or not, it holds a particular place in human society that is more positive than negative. But like anything else in life, it can be used wrongly. Especially used in conjunction with other social institutions such as commerce or government, you see it become a mere shadow of what it really stands for.

I feel really bad for all the people who hate religion and think it is all about manipulation and control when it's potentially one of the most beautiful of man's creations.

[Raivyn]

I think we can all agree that religion projects something that cannot be expressed with words alone. Be it supernatural or not, it holds a particular place in human society that is more positive than negative. But like anything else in life, it can be used wrongly. Especially used in conjunction with other social institutions such as commerce or government, you see it become a mere shadow of what it really stands for.

I feel really bad for all the people who hate religion and think it is all about manipulation and control when it's potentially one of the most beautiful of man's creations.

Great statement, I totally agree. While many of the world's dominant (and not so dominant) organized religions exhibit many edifices of control I still think personal faith is a great thing to have, as well as communal faith. Regardless, great statement, well put.

[Orchid]

"Once again, reading comprehension. Don't stuff words in my mouth, I'm not saying gay marriage is wrong and you know it. "

I dont know it, you refuse to take a stance or state your opinion.

[Raivyn]

"Once again, reading comprehension. Don't stuff words in my mouth, I'm not saying gay marriage is wrong and you know it. "

I dont know it, you refuse to take a stance or state your opinion.

Holy shit - you're incapable of paying attention.

[Orchid]

Raivyn readies {perfect dodge}

Nicolette's challenge misses Raivyn.
Nicolette's dare misses Raivyn.


Raivyn: Hahaha! Im not here to state my opinion! I'm just here to mock yours!

/ra "stupid insults" Nicolette

{Run Away!}
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Bored with this, You dont have a stance or youre incapable of recognizing that you need to substantiate your arguments or you just choose not to. Either way it makes it pointless to continue discussing this with you, let me know when youre capable of debating this or any other topic.
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So, now that that derail is over,
South park has been doing this whole thing about scientology because of the statement issued by Isaac Hayes's estate that led to him leaving the show.
Tom Cruise apparently hates the show as well for similar reasons though it seems to me that he has more ground to stand on than Isaac who has been with the show mocking other faiths but cant take it when it comes to his own. (unless it really is something not of his doing since he is still recovering from a stroke) But its been getting much more involved since then.
They had the Scientology episode and then Chef' returns which equated scientology with a gentlemens adventuring club that molests little children in order to gain eternal life and basically defamed, demeaned and destroyed the character Chef on the show in protest of Isaac's leaving.

Since then (and i'm fuzzy here so please correct me if im wrong) cartoon network has pulled the scientology episode from re-airing, and has censored the chef returns episode. Theyve since done 2 episodes about freedom of speech, unnecessary censorship, and the capitulation of network exec's to the threats of fanatical religious organizations (in the show it was bin ladin and muslim terrorists, but was analagous to scientologists)

Anyway so the point is they made fun of scientology like they make fun of everything else and it's turned into this large and involved freedom of speech issue. Does anyone have opinions on whether network execs are right to be bowing to the pressures of scientologists and censoring south park?

[Kytele]

The moral of the story is, being in Scientology turns you batshit ape crazy.

Like Tom Cruise.

[Raivyn]

Raivyn readies {perfect dodge}

Nicolette's challenge misses Raivyn.
Nicolette's dare misses Raivyn.


Raivyn: Hahaha! Im not here to state my opinion! I'm just here to mock yours!

/ra "stupid insults" Nicolette

{Run Away!}
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Bored with this, You dont have a stance or youre incapable of recognizing that you need to substantiate your arguments or you just choose not to. Either way it makes it pointless to continue discussing this with you, let me know when youre capable of debating this or any other topic.
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I've never seen someone repeatedly dodge an argument so handily, excluding Peregrine. I'm really sick of pointing out blatant hypocrisy and stupidity on the internet, then pointing out why it's hypocritical and how it's wrong, then gaining nothing for it. Lesson learned, next time I'll just call you a stupid stupid whore and leave it at that.

I mean hey, as long as we're making shit up entirely, why not?

[Orchid]

State your opinion or GTFO.

(funny how I structured that mock post as, refuse to state an opinion, sling some insults, and leave and thats exactly what your next post contained.)

[Raivyn]

State your opinion or GTFO.

(funny how I structured that mock post as, refuse to state an opinion, sling some insults, and leave and thats exactly what your next post contained.)

I'm not stating my opinion again, use your god given sense of sight and read my first post dumbass.

[Raivyn]

Fuck it, here it is for you so you don't have to sift through my posts looking for all the instances where I repeated it.

Reminds me of bush's state of the union speech where he used stem cell research, (proto-cells being used to combat degenerative diseases and other maladys) with cloning and "human-animal hybrids." (bush hates mithra.) The idea that gay marriage would lead to human-pet marriage is retarded.

As for religion, I think if you can do without it you should, but some people need to prop up their morality, find ways to feel better about themselves, or have a basis to attack other's actions that arent rooted in reality. Why else would a god designate one family of ppl "Chosen", or make certain places "Holy" or legislate morality with the most imperfect method of communication ever devised - the written word.

Personally i'd rather people could behave themselves, mind their own business in interpersonal matters that theyre not involved in, or find and express their desires in war without looking to a nebulous god-figure.

That's a pretty arrogant statement. Some people just like having it, and choose to believe and have faith. Being an idiot or an asshole is not a prerequisite to having faith.

[Raivyn]

Wow you left the forum pretty fast, what was that you were just saying about gunning and running? Explain to me again how you are not a hypocrite.

[Orchid]

Sorry for not having the forum up 24/7 =p my post 11:55am, yours 2:24pm, yep i really took off fast.

So your stance is that some people just like having faith... and so they do.
Yep thats sound reasoning right there. Dont know HOW I could have missed it.


edit: btw that was sarcasm.

[Orchid]

State your opinion or GTFO.

(funny how I structured that mock post as, refuse to state an opinion, sling some insults, and leave and thats exactly what your next post contained.)

I'm not stating my opinion again, use your god given sense of sight and read my first post dumbass.

lol same structure again.