AV on Titan (OFN)

[Julius]

a thf wouldn't lot against his war friend for a ridill, or a bard against a thf for n.body, or a smn against a blm for a.hands etc. etc.
a whm wouldn't lot against a blm friend for novio earring when he knows his friend would get more use out of it.
thats the point i was trying to get at.

[Maxxthepenguin]

a thf wouldn't lot against his war friend for a ridill, or a bard against a thf for n.body, or a smn against a blm for a.hands etc. etc.
a whm wouldn't lot against a blm friend for novio earring when he knows hes friend would get more use out of it.
thats the point i was trying to get at.

So what reward to you think the WHM SHOULD have gotten? A pat on the back?

[BRP]

a thf wouldn't lot against his war friend for a ridill, or a bard against a thf for n.body, or a smn against a blm for a.hands etc. etc.
a whm wouldn't lot against a blm friend for novio earring when he knows hes friend would get more use out of it.
thats the point i was trying to get at.

So what reward to you think the WHM SHOULD have gotten? A pat on the back?

I don't know, maybe the other earring that was practically made for WHM, you dumbass?

[aurik]

a thf wouldn't lot against his war friend for a ridill, or a bard against a thf for n.body, or a smn against a blm for a.hands etc. etc.
a whm wouldn't lot against a blm friend for novio earring when he knows hes friend would get more use out of it.
thats the point i was trying to get at.

Yes but if the thf had the rights to lot the ridill first, and decided to lot it before his friend the war, would you look down upon it? I wouldn't; that's stupid. The very fact that he has the right to lot it first, especially in a point system, enshrines the justification that he deserves it more.

[Xavier]

Point systems are retarded that don't put a heavy emphesis on item priority to jobs.

If you want your LS to never progress at all, enjoy wars lotting m. body and rng lotting ridills.

and;

So what reward to you think the WHM SHOULD have gotten? A pat on the back?

I don't know, maybe the other earring that was practically made for WHM, you dumbass?

is priceless

[Maxxthepenguin]

a thf wouldn't lot against his war friend for a ridill, or a bard against a thf for n.body, or a smn against a blm for a.hands etc. etc.
a whm wouldn't lot against a blm friend for novio earring when he knows hes friend would get more use out of it.
thats the point i was trying to get at.

So what reward to you think the WHM SHOULD have gotten? A pat on the back?

I don't know, maybe the other earring that was practically made for WHM, you dumbass?

How was it practically made for WHM? They arent the only job that ever pulls hate. I'd want it for DRK/WAR, being able to play DRK/WAR without pulling as much hate would be a great thing. Jesus fucking christ, it can be argued that Novia is better than Novio for BLM. So he wanted the novio earring, so what? He deserves that apparently, he worked his ass off.

[Lylie]

The lesson here is, that with everyone and their mom leveling BLM, no one really know how to play the job nowadays, and think their job is to empty their MP pool as fast as possible without watching their hate.

Fixed.

[aurik]

Point systems are retarded that don't put a heavy emphesis on item priority to jobs.

If you want your LS to never progress at all, enjoy wars lotting m. body and rng lotting ridills.

Obviously, if you have dumb wars who would rather spend points on m.body than ridill/adaberk. If I were spending the culmination of 4-5 months of effort on a single item, I'd make damn sure it was useful to me.

That said, LS progress? My old LS had upwards of 70 fafnir kills, all 3 land wyrms, etc etc etc basically all the points on BK minus sea, and we didn't have a single m.body and very few a.body. These items are good, sure, but it's not like you need it to "make progress".

HNMLS are basically about getting items for their members. Be the distribution algorithm points or executive decision, it's all about collecting loot for deserving people.

[Ichthyos]

Tom Chambers, if Seashell had a living room or something, I'd take your post and immortalize it on a plaque.

[Xavier]

Point systems are retarded that don't put a heavy emphesis on item priority to jobs.

If you want your LS to never progress at all, enjoy wars lotting m. body and rng lotting ridills.

Obviously, if you have dumb wars who would rather spend points on m.body than ridill/adaberk. If I were spending the culmination of 4-5 months of effort on a single item, I'd make damn sure it was useful to me.

Your argument is identical to a dumb whm who would rather spend points on a MAB earring over a -enmity earring ruining the system. Thanks.

That said, LS progress? My old LS had upwards of 70 fafnir kills, all 3 land wyrms, etc etc etc basically all the points on BK minus sea, and we didn't have a single m.body and very few a.body. These items are good, sure, but it's not like you need it to "make progress".

You can take a linkshell of people wearing nothing but AF and kill Fafnir with 18 people in an hour. You can take a linkshell that has all the gear from Fafnir/Nidhogg/KB etc and kill Fafnir with 6 people in the same amount of time.

Progression has nothing to do with being able to kill harder monsters. Progression in this game is killing the same mobs faster with fewer people. Having people with the gear to do Fafnir at 5am with a single party, etc.

[rahvin]

a thf wouldn't lot against his war friend for a ridill, or a bard against a thf for n.body, or a smn against a blm for a.hands etc. etc.
a whm wouldn't lot against a blm friend for novio earring when he knows hes friend would get more use out of it.
thats the point i was trying to get at.

Yes but if the thf had the rights to lot the ridill first, and decided to lot it before his friend the war, would you look down upon it? I wouldn't; that's stupid. The very fact that he has the right to lot it first, especially in a point system, enshrines the justification that he deserves it more.

the example doesnt fit becuase both the war AND the thf benefit from the use of the ridill. the wht in this situation DOES NOT benefit. I think everyones complaint here is that he is being a loot whore, and there is no other explanation about it. YES he had more points, but NO he does not benefit from the earring. it is an e-peen item for him "hay guys look i have this earring even though i dont benefit from it". it is their ls and they are running it the way they see fit, im not telling them they cant do it the way they want as is many other ppl. But again the point remains that he is a loot whore for looting an item he gains no benefit from.

its like a blm lotting a dalmatica over a rdm or smn. blm doesnt gain benefit from it, where as regardless of the points he had, it is the CORRECT thing to do is pass it to someone who will make us of it and better the ls. but you no anyone else will budge off of their opinions so i dont know why i bother lol.

[Xavier]

its like a blm lotting a dalmatica over a rdm or smn.

I think you mean BRD sir.

[rahvin]

Point systems are retarded that don't put a heavy emphesis on item priority to jobs.

If you want your LS to never progress at all, enjoy wars lotting m. body and rng lotting ridills.

Obviously, if you have dumb wars who would rather spend points on m.body than ridill/adaberk. If I were spending the culmination of 4-5 months of effort on a single item, I'd make damn sure it was useful to me.

so you proved all of our arguments right there. so by your statement the earring being USLESSSSSSSSSSSSSSS to a wht SHOULD HAVE BEEN PASSED.

[rahvin]

its like a blm lotting a dalmatica over a rdm or smn.

I think you mean BRD sir.

sry for that been a while since ive looked at it

[Julius]

Progression has nothing to do with being able to kill harder monsters. Progression in this game is killing the same mobs faster with fewer people. Having people with the gear to do Fafnir at 5am with a single party, etc.

awsome point. my LS takes a lot of pride in doing this exact same thing.

[aurik]

Point systems are retarded that don't put a heavy emphesis on item priority to jobs.

If you want your LS to never progress at all, enjoy wars lotting m. body and rng lotting ridills.

Obviously, if you have dumb wars who would rather spend points on m.body than ridill/adaberk. If I were spending the culmination of 4-5 months of effort on a single item, I'd make damn sure it was useful to me.

Your argument is identical to a dumb whm who would rather spend points on a MAB earring over a -enmity earring ruining the system. Thanks.

Not exactly. Said whm is levelling blm to make great use of the earring, and in the meantime loaning it out to blm friends. Just like, would I fault a rng with enough points lotting a ridill to use on his upcoming war? Nope. You yourself got your ridill as sam, and later levelled war to make better use of it. Was your ridill a waste? Nope.

[quote:6c70c]

That said, LS progress? My old LS had upwards of 70 fafnir kills, all 3 land wyrms, etc etc etc basically all the points on BK minus sea, and we didn't have a single m.body and very few a.body. These items are good, sure, but it's not like you need it to "make progress".

You can take a linkshell of people wearing nothing but AF and kill Fafnir with 18 people in an hour. You can take a linkshell that has all the gear from Fafnir/Nidhogg/KB etc and kill Fafnir with 6 people in the same amount of time.

Progression has nothing to do with being able to kill harder monsters. Progression in this game is killing the same mobs faster with fewer people. Having people with the gear to do Fafnir at 5am with a single party, etc.

[/quote:6c70c]

Your definition of progress differs from mine. Once we can reliably kill something, who cares? I'd say yours stems from the fact you have to kill it 500000 times to pimp all your members with the items they want. Mine stems from a desire to have many different experiences.

[Xavier]

Your argument is identical to a dumb whm who would rather spend points on a MAB earring over a -enmity earring ruining the system. Thanks.

Not exactly. Said whm is levelling blm to make great use of the earring, and in the meantime loaning it out to blm friends. Just like, would I fault a rng with enough points lotting a ridill to use on his upcoming war? Nope. You yourself got your ridill as sam, and later levelled war to make better use of it. Was your ridill a waste? Nope.

How is me getting an item when there were no other 75 wars in the LS who didn't have one the same thing as a whm lotting an item when there are blms in the LS who want it.

Immediate use vs. use in 3 months is a pretty easy call, majority of factors being equal, equal being within 5 points of each other, or something relative like that based on the excess of points per event.

Your definition of progress differs from mine. Once we can reliably kill something, who cares? I'd say yours stems from the fact you have to kill it 500000 times to pimp all your members with the items they want. Mine stems from a desire to have many different experiences.

Reliablilty relies on having enough people on all the time that way. Better gear = needing less people, or the ability to fracture into two groups, do 2 limbus at once, camp KB and Nidhogg at the same time, etc.

If your desire is to have many different experiences, you're playing the wrong game too.

[aurik]

Your argument is identical to a dumb whm who would rather spend points on a MAB earring over a -enmity earring ruining the system. Thanks.

Not exactly. Said whm is levelling blm to make great use of the earring, and in the meantime loaning it out to blm friends. Just like, would I fault a rng with enough points lotting a ridill to use on his upcoming war? Nope. You yourself got your ridill as sam, and later levelled war to make better use of it. Was your ridill a waste? Nope.

How is me getting an item when there were no other 75 wars in the LS who didn't have one the same thing as a whm lotting an item when there are blms in the LS who want it.

Immediate use vs. use in 3 months is a pretty easy call, majority of factors being equal, equal being within 5 points of each other, or something relative like that based on the excess of points per event.

Would it have been different if there was a 75war in the LS with far less effort than you had put forth to that point in time? And you hadn't recieved a single thing in the LS so far?

At some point there's a balance where you get Ridill for your SAM regardless of job prioritization. Seashell's point system makes it clear when that happens; personally I like that better than the nebulous "divine appointment" system. And if you disagree, you're free to not join and go do your own thing with like-minded people. In which case, who are you to criticize?

I'm not saying point systems are without their own problems, but I am saying that it's not clearly inferior to any other system that I've seen to date.

It's rather ironic that you say "it's no way to operate a linkshell" when they are 1 of 3 groups to take down AV, while half of your own LS quit for WoW. Maybe that's a bit of a cheap shot, but there's this lack of credibility when you're saying "there's a better solution to the loot distribution problem" while standing over the wreckage of a guild that was the first NA megapower in the multiverse.

Your definition of progress differs from mine. Once we can reliably kill something, who cares? I'd say yours stems from the fact you have to kill it 500000 times to pimp all your members with the items they want. Mine stems from a desire to have many different experiences.

Reliablilty relies on having enough people on all the time that way. Better gear = needing less people, or the ability to fracture into two groups, do 2 limbus at once, camp KB and Nidhogg at the same time, etc.

If your desire is to have many different experiences, you're playing the wrong game too.

I seem to be doing ok with the "having many different experiences" thing. I'm still having fun, and I'm not logging in and doing the same thing day-in and day-out like most of my HNMLS friends. I haven't seen a darter in months, which is a welcome change after 50+ camps between september and december.

[Dezzimal]

FFXI Progression = Getting better bots.

[Avinor]

Honestly, if our goal was to use each and every item to its utmost efficiency, none of us would have the Novio earring because it would have been sold to fund a stage 5 horn or shield. I think this is actually what Iron is doing, which I think is really cool for them. They seem to be a very tight knit shell that does everything together, so odds are they care more about getting whats truly useful over awesome bling.

We're not that. I can definitely see how it would be nice, but I don't get too depressed over it. I'm not sure how it works on other servers, but from what I've gathered Titan's endgame is fairly fragmented. There are lots of HNM shells, and even more Dynamis shells. Some HNM shells do internal dynamis, many don't, and theres lots of overlap between the two.

SeaShell came along when the Jailers were introduced, and none of the HNM shells had enough people on their own in Sea to actually do anything. So it started kind of like a dynamis shell, open to essentially anyone on Titan with Sea access, to farm Sea for items and for the new content. Which was quite new when we began. We went in fairly blind on our first Temperence - we knew where to try and pop it, we knew it was a pot, and we knew it had varying immunity to certain damage, but we had no idea what that really meant. We had to figure it out on the fly, and it was a blast. Since then we've done a lot of exploring on our own, and used info posted from other active shells to refine our strategies. We've gotten fairly good at killing anything in Sea.

So you can call us loot whores if you'd like. Honestly I don't see it that way. We certainly don't regulate our equipment, but we also don't care too much. Its a game, and we've decided to enjoy it this way. And we have been - the WHM that got Novio still comes to every event he's online for, partly out of loyalty no doubt, but mostly because its fun. I'll still be coming whenever I can for the same reasons. Eventually everyone who comes will get something, depending on luck and circumstance, they may get a lot or a little, but theres a bit of freedom to it. Will the stuff that people get make us able to fight harder stuff with less people faster? Nope! But it wouldn't even if we gave it to select people based on job. The only thing that would make a difference is if we sold it all to buy Gjallarhorns and Aegises. So I guess we're lootwhores. Just like any other shell that has this useless bling but doesn't have a Bard with Ballad+2.

Oh, and just to ensure the people who are mad get even more steamed - the one and only Ix'drk cape we've gotten, the one with that lovely 5 enfeebling skill - went to the same WHM that has the Novio.

Stick that in your pipe and smoke it, bitch.