.

[Priran]

There's a coldstone next to the EB that I pre-ordered ToA at. I'm more excited about the ice cream

Same here.

EB+Coldstone conspiracy zomg

[Tape]

I remember the day Waffles said he never had Eggo's... thats a damn shame.

Don't make me come out there!

[Raivyn]

THF: Thief is a unique case. They can sub ninja for higher TP gain, higher survivability, but lower WS damage. That and considering SA and TA have 1 minute recast timers, they aren't viable in melee parties since SATA isn't gonna be ready every fight in time for a chain above 5. They can sub warrior for higher WS damage and good DoT, but it has lower survivability and lower TP gain. Unlike quite a few other melees, they can't have it all.

DRK: Where to begin. Slowest TP gain out of all classes due to main weapons having the highest delay over all other classes. Per hit damage is severely lacking with /thf, TP gain is horrid with /thf, suvivability is moderate with /THF because of TA. With /war, per hit damage is decent with berserk up, but WS damage suffers and TP gain, while better, is still crap. The only really viable WS to use with a two handed weapon in a WS spam party for DRK with a WAR sub is guillotine. Guillotine has no damage modifiers, so the damage is capped at about 200ish(although the very large damage range would make this be much more like 130-220) per swing for a max total of about 800 damage on guillotine no matter how much +attack you have(disregarding double attack proc since that is rare to see for guillotine, and souleater is just stupid to use for guillotine with warrior sub unless its an emergency or you're sure it'll finish off the mob. The innate problems with souleater apply though, making it not too smart to use it in a WS spam party when stacked with gullotine).

So DRK has ok DoT, sub-par TP gain, and very low survivability with warrior sub. With thief sub, DRK has crap DoT, abyssmal TP gain, and decent survivability since they'll almost never take hate since they only good damage output is from SATA WS. TP gain from /thf assures that there will never be an EXP chain above 5.

haven't read the background argument but why was drk/nin left out?

[Sylvrdragon]

I remember a time when WARs got no respect... I remember never seeing any in PTs, but pleny of DRKs everywhere. Someone somewhere along the line thought of a way to play WAR well and they just kinda rose to the top. I remember when I first saw Rampage and the numbers it put out. It was still in that time when WARs would sit lfp and were the last invited (Well, ok, DRGs were the last even then, but then MNKs never got invites either... what the hell was going on during this time?). I remember starting a PT with a WAR at my lvl just cause I wanted to see what they could do. He thanked me for the invite and I said "Hell yeah I invited you, Rampage is the shit, just keep doing that and this PT will kick some ass". Well, it ends up that he wasn't one of the next generation "Good" Warriors that we know today and he sucked balls. He later went on to NOT buy a Hauby till after he was already 75 (Used Cardinal Vest, then Narasimha's with other assorted crap before this, probably AF).

I forgot where I was going with this post. We don't have anything called Coldstone in Cincinnati but it sounds really good. I gather that its an Icecream place?

[Heian]

THF: Thief is a unique case. They can sub ninja for higher TP gain, higher survivability, but lower WS damage. That and considering SA and TA have 1 minute recast timers, they aren't viable in melee parties since SATA isn't gonna be ready every fight in time for a chain above 5. They can sub warrior for higher WS damage and good DoT, but it has lower survivability and lower TP gain. Unlike quite a few other melees, they can't have it all.

DRK: Where to begin. Slowest TP gain out of all classes due to main weapons having the highest delay over all other classes. Per hit damage is severely lacking with /thf, TP gain is horrid with /thf, suvivability is moderate with /THF because of TA. With /war, per hit damage is decent with berserk up, but WS damage suffers and TP gain, while better, is still crap. The only really viable WS to use with a two handed weapon in a WS spam party for DRK with a WAR sub is guillotine. Guillotine has no damage modifiers, so the damage is capped at about 200ish(although the very large damage range would make this be much more like 130-220) per swing for a max total of about 800 damage on guillotine no matter how much +attack you have(disregarding double attack proc since that is rare to see for guillotine, and souleater is just stupid to use for guillotine with warrior sub unless its an emergency or you're sure it'll finish off the mob. The innate problems with souleater apply though, making it not too smart to use it in a WS spam party when stacked with gullotine).

So DRK has ok DoT, sub-par TP gain, and very low survivability with warrior sub. With thief sub, DRK has crap DoT, abyssmal TP gain, and decent survivability since they'll almost never take hate since they only good damage output is from SATA WS. TP gain from /thf assures that there will never be an EXP chain above 5.

haven't read the background argument but why was drk/nin left out?

Because DRK/NIN (damage wise) is about the same as WAR/NIN, higher attack but lower base skills. Merited and gear properly though, Axe/Ridill DRK/NIN can out parser almost every WAR I have PT'd with. Problem is though, when the same person goes as WAR his total DoT is much higher.

[Skyylya]

THF: Thief is a unique case. They can sub ninja for higher TP gain, higher survivability, but lower WS damage. That and considering SA and TA have 1 minute recast timers, they aren't viable in melee parties since SATA isn't gonna be ready every fight in time for a chain above 5. They can sub warrior for higher WS damage and good DoT, but it has lower survivability and lower TP gain. Unlike quite a few other melees, they can't have it all.

DRK: Where to begin. Slowest TP gain out of all classes due to main weapons having the highest delay over all other classes. Per hit damage is severely lacking with /thf, TP gain is horrid with /thf, suvivability is moderate with /THF because of TA. With /war, per hit damage is decent with berserk up, but WS damage suffers and TP gain, while better, is still crap. The only really viable WS to use with a two handed weapon in a WS spam party for DRK with a WAR sub is guillotine. Guillotine has no damage modifiers, so the damage is capped at about 200ish(although the very large damage range would make this be much more like 130-220) per swing for a max total of about 800 damage on guillotine no matter how much +attack you have(disregarding double attack proc since that is rare to see for guillotine, and souleater is just stupid to use for guillotine with warrior sub unless its an emergency or you're sure it'll finish off the mob. The innate problems with souleater apply though, making it not too smart to use it in a WS spam party when stacked with gullotine).

So DRK has ok DoT, sub-par TP gain, and very low survivability with warrior sub. With thief sub, DRK has crap DoT, abyssmal TP gain, and decent survivability since they'll almost never take hate since they only good damage output is from SATA WS. TP gain from /thf assures that there will never be an EXP chain above 5.

haven't read the background argument but why was drk/nin left out?

Because DRK/NIN (damage wise) is about the same as WAR/NIN, higher attack but lower base skills. Merited and gear properly though, Axe/Ridill DRK/NIN can out parser almost every WAR I have PT'd with. Problem is though, when the same person goes as WAR his total DoT is much higher.

Eh i would disagree with this on a limited basis. Excluding a drk/nin ridill simply because i have never pt'd with one and wouldn't want to assume. But i have xp'd with plenty of drk/nin's on weapons in sky, and even there i've out dmg'd them as mnk/nin and even w/o double attack keep pretty close with the wars.

If it were a situation where i could go mnk/war i'd beat them out every time no question. (I have only xp'd with one war/nin with a ridill before, and the rest of his gear wasn't pimp so i can't really say he did spectacular.) I'm referring to your run of the mill jugg/maneater or w/e type setup.

[Maxxthepenguin]

Because DRK/NIN (damage wise) is about the same as WAR/NIN, higher attack but lower base skills. Merited and gear properly though, Axe/Ridill DRK/NIN can out parser almost every WAR I have PT'd with. Problem is though, when the same person goes as WAR his total DoT is much higher.

Sadly, DRK/NIN doesn't even have higher attack than WAR/NIN when using axes due to skill difference. Its the same attack and lower accuracy unless the DRK goes for a bunch of black gear. Its only saving grace is Souleater, which is safe as a DRK/NIN and can ensure a speedy death for a mob.

and @ Sylvrdragon: Yeah, I honestly think one of the main problems with DRK is it has too many of those kinds of players, ones who have no clue how to play the job. I honestly can't say I've partied with another DRK who knows how to pull off DoT and powerful guillotines. Most of the people who would be good at the job have been turned off by the bad reports of the job and gone to WAR instead.

[Onizuka]

Well i will say this, as a drk i never pted with other drks but when i lvled nin as my second main i noticed no drk i pt'ed with used souleater.. I didn't pt with to many drks and i would always tell the party leader to get another job instead(exp drg) Reason being the chances of a gimp drk where to high(plus the job sucks most of the time), if the drk was good i would have known his name anyway.


Wars i pted with long time ago sucked for the most part, some where great some had great gear did good dmg some just played well and had pretty decent gear(haub,etc) did good DoT. But with drk i basically gimped wars to mistral/voke spamers lolz. With nin wars owned(unless gimp), they could voke off me, and could spam rampage all they wanted 8)

In closing all jobs suck if the player has crap gear/skill.