look at this from maxx to me

[Maxxthepenguin]

Your missing where I never said the average DRK outdamages the average WAR. I try not to think of things in terms of X > Y, I try to define what X and Y actually are, see if they are comparable, and see what could be done to change it.

Maxx why even argue? According to you the only way a DRK outdamages a WAR is when the DRK has the best gear and the WAR is shit.

DRK's are a burden in burn parties. No utsusemi. Souleater fucks everything up. Getting too much hate from their retarded abilities, then proceeding to get pummelled due to their low defense.

I SEE NO POSITIVES

Stop talking in extremes. Its not a difference between best and shit. I have good, not great gear, and I keep up with WARs of similar gear when I'm playing well. Safety is not an issue if you use your head and pick the right mobs and the people with voke and shadows arent lazy or crappy. Stop being a fucktard and actually read. If you don't know how to play DRK or work with DRK then yeah, they're a useless burden. But you know, some people arent dumbasses.

[Anyway]

Sooooo if we want a shitty ass DRK in our party over a WAR, we have to choose the right place (Which Im wondering where that is) so the DRK won't be AS shitty. Voke can get people killed and you'd know if you weren't a dumbass.

[aurik]

MNK is anything but self-sufficient.

I vowed to never WHM in KRT again; curing 3 MP sponges that require haste, blindna, paralyna, etc. is just too much for me. I especially hate the ones that put up Counterstance while blinded, or the ones who beg for Blindna (hint: blindna takes a fucking eternity to cast)

Then there's always the 400+ Hell Slash {NO THANKS}

"OMG I HAVE TO HEAL AS WHM?!"

[Remembrance]

"OMG I HAVE TO HEAL AS WHM?!"

Thats kinda what I was trying to get at ._. I <3 keeping those crazy reckless melee alive heh.

One of my good buds is a mnk, and he is in the top 3 best tanks I have ever played with.. He solos Alky and has done LoO solo before, though we usually duo it. So I guess its all dependant on the player and the sub, but from my experience, mnk can be VERY self sufficient if thats the aim.

[aurik]

I notice a difference with macroing in WS gear for weapon skills in spinning slash and cross reaper. I don't notice much of a difference with guillotine. It never breaks the 800ish damage cap unless I get a double attack or use souleater. There is no other way it will get much more damage. No amount of available +STR or +MND will do it.

...are you serious? I had an AVERAGE 800 damage for 16 TP return (w/ rajas) guillos last night in Uleguerand as DRK/WAR. I notice a difference on Guillos when I have MND- for sure, try it with adaman sollerets. I haven't really tested much MND+ honestly, but I'm going for AF+1 Feet next (have hands, head, and a black rivet.) So I guess we'll see what happens.

No. You didn't notice the difference. It's total placebo effect.

Let me put it into perspective. Your endgame scythe is what...uh...95 dmg? Something like that. Then you have fSTR; if you're geared right that should be like..+8-12 or so as a drk, I think. We'll call it +10. Finally, we have your str modifier, which is going to be like ~25, and your mnd modifier which is probably like 15. Those 2 are added up (40) and then multiplied by 0.83 and floored (33).

Now then. For guillotine you sum all 3 primary factors together: base damage, fSTR, and modifiers. 95 + 10 + 33. So for the purposes of damage during guillotine your total swing power is 138. Basically, your final damage is just some factor times your total swing power. You said you averaged 800 dmg, that makes your total multiplier around 5.8, sounds reaonable.

Now then, if you add 5 mnd (woot!), you can add floor(5*.25*.83) = 1 to your total swing power.

Assuming nothing else in your setup changes, that is going to change your average guillotine by a *whopping* +5.8 damage. Not only is that far too small to reliably detect through visual inspection, your parser's margin of error on your average guillo is going to be several times the width of this interval...

[BRP]

Max...

If you had a little community, and there was this person who wouldn't go away. Almost everyone wanted this person to go away, and the very few who didn't care either way. Yet, this person doesn't go away.

It's simple. Get out already. We don't make fun or tell you to GTFO because we find it fun(not that I speak for everyone...), its because we want you gone and you won't go. Don't you realize how retarded that is? You have already realize that you are not welcomed here. Get a fucking clue and leave.

If you are such a nice guy that is worthy of existance, then you would understand that the best thing you can do for everyone is leave gracefully.

To people who think its cool to say "Don't ban him lawl we'll make him go crazy with our words over the internet". That's stupid. This is exactly what he wants, even if he doesn't know it. He is a flatout troll and can't stand the idea of not getting our attention. This is why, even if I ask nicely, he will not leave.

To the moderators. I don't care what you do really. I'm not even sure if you exist. But with any control left on these forums, ban Max, the attention whore.

[Priran]

the demon looks at you and is like "Bye bye" and then uses Quadrastrike (4 hit demon WS that can 1 shot ANYONE).

Uh? I've been in Uleg plenty of times and I've never seen that.

[Dezzimal]

Neither have I at uleguerand. I have seen it in dynamis - xarcabard, however. Condemnation though...got pwned by that a couple times tanking a normal party @73 nin.

[Sekkite]

I notice a difference with macroing in WS gear for weapon skills in spinning slash and cross reaper. I don't notice much of a difference with guillotine. It never breaks the 800ish damage cap unless I get a double attack or use souleater. There is no other way it will get much more damage. No amount of available +STR or +MND will do it.

...are you serious? I had an AVERAGE 800 damage for 16 TP return (w/ rajas) guillos last night in Uleguerand as DRK/WAR. I notice a difference on Guillos when I have MND- for sure, try it with adaman sollerets. I haven't really tested much MND+ honestly, but I'm going for AF+1 Feet next (have hands, head, and a black rivet.) So I guess we'll see what happens.

You pretty much validated what I said. 800ish damage when all 4 swings connect. It can go up to around 900 maximum but that is very rare without double attack proc or souleater on xp mobs. Considering uleguerand range mobs have relatively low defense and if you have a bard, you should be getting 800 damage on average for guillotine. Your TP gain wouldn't be good enough for a WS spam party though.

[Onizuka]

I notice a difference with macroing in WS gear for weapon skills in spinning slash and cross reaper. I don't notice much of a difference with guillotine. It never breaks the 800ish damage cap unless I get a double attack or use souleater. There is no other way it will get much more damage. No amount of available +STR or +MND will do it.

...are you serious? I had an AVERAGE 800 damage for 16 TP return (w/ rajas) guillos last night in Uleguerand as DRK/WAR. I notice a difference on Guillos when I have MND- for sure, try it with adaman sollerets. I haven't really tested much MND+ honestly, but I'm going for AF+1 Feet next (have hands, head, and a black rivet.) So I guess we'll see what happens.

You pretty much validated what I said. 800ish damage when all 4 swings connect. It can go up to around 900 maximum but that is very rare without double attack proc or souleater on xp mobs. Considering uleguerand range mobs have relatively low defense and if you have a bard, you should be getting 800 damage on average for guillotine. Your TP gain wouldn't be good enough for a WS spam party though.

Don't pay it any mind Sekk he just repeat's what other people say for no reason..

Anywho WHY THE FUCK ARE PPL STILL DISCUSING THIS!!!!

Every topic maxx is in(every topic i read) turns into a drk Vs war discussion.. WTF is their to discuss war owns drk in everything but drk/nin kraken SE on SL/JoL.. WAR/NIN pwns drk in almost all exp acpects war/thf does pretty much the same dmg as drk/thf on HNM.. So i don't see a reason for anybody to even lvl drk anymore, and if your a drk just lvl a job thats not worthless..

I wanna see a worthwhile topic/argument.. Can someone please talk about SAM!!! >.>

[Maxxthepenguin]

Don't pay it any mind Sekk he just repeat's what other people say for no reason..

Anywho WHY THE FUCK ARE PPL STILL DISCUSING THIS!!!!

Every topic maxx is in(every topic i read) turns into a drk Vs war discussion.. WTF is their to discuss war owns drk in everything but drk/nin kraken SE on SL/JoL.. WAR/NIN pwns drk in almost all exp acpects war/thf does pretty much the same dmg as drk/thf on HNM.. So i don't see a reason for anybody to even lvl drk anymore, and if your a drk just lvl a job thats not worthless..

I wanna see a worthwhile topic/argument.. Can someone please talk about SAM!!! >.>

Um no, but thanks for playing. It turned into a DRK vs WAR discussion because people decided to bring it up and misquoted what I said. I don't want every time I post to become that, but people keep bringing it up and keep arguing against my points and saying things directly to me. Its annoying as hell for me as well.

On the other hand, your comments are random, off subject, and incoherent. I posted info to help people twice today on these forums. What have you done? Trolled my posts and said how much you hated DRK.

[Lordwafik]

Neither have I at uleguerand. I have seen it in dynamis - xarcabard, however. Condemnation though...got pwned by that a couple times tanking a normal party @73 nin.

My bad, i mixed them up then :D But demons still have 1 shotting power.

Hate in burn parties is meant to be bounced, not focused.

[BRP]

Enough of this DRK vs WAR crap. Max being a DRK is not important. I don't hate all DRKs. Max, will you just leave?

[Maxxthepenguin]

Neither have I at uleguerand. I have seen it in dynamis - xarcabard, however. Condemnation though...got pwned by that a couple times tanking a normal party @73 nin.

My bad, i mixed them up then :D But demons still have 1 shotting power.

Hate in burn parties is meant to be bounced, not focused.

Meant to be doesn't mean has to be. And anyways, you still have 3 people it bounces on, all just have an extra booster shot of hate from an additional voke. They get the same amount of hate from voke so they will bounce hate like it never happened.

The reason WS Spam parties work is because it sacrifices no damage dealt. This form of 'tanking' (between 3 people lol) also doesn't sacrifice damage dealt.

[Severance]

loldrk

I had parties on decoweapons with 3DRK/THF and me as NIN/WAR and i outdamaged them all in a parse. Maybe decoweapons arent the best mobs for DRK to be against, but my NIN gear isnt amazing and their DRK gear is above average and i outparsed by faaaaar.

[Maxxthepenguin]

loldrk

I had parties on decoweapons with 3DRK/THF and me as NIN/WAR and i outdamaged them all in a parse. Maybe decoweapons arent the best mobs for DRK to be against, but my NIN gear isnt amazing and their DRK gear is above average and i outparsed by faaaaar.

No, DRK/THF just sucks donkey balls for chaining VTs.

[Mifaco]

loldrk

I had parties on decoweapons with 3DRK/THF and me as NIN/WAR and i outdamaged them all in a parse. Maybe decoweapons arent the best mobs for DRK to be against, but my NIN gear isnt amazing and their DRK gear is above average and i outparsed by faaaaar.

No, DRK/THF just sucks donkey balls for chaining ITs.

I fixed your post. DRK/THF, much like saving TP for Spirits Within to use on Genbu, is so 2004.

"OMG I HAVE TO HEAL AS WHM?!"

Curebombing 3 mnks isn't my cup of tea.

[Zhais]

Regen Bombing works wonders.

IMO, its worth it for 10k/hr+ with chain 70+ <3 <3

[Onizuka]

On the other hand, your comments are random, off subject, and incoherent. I posted info to help people twice today on these forums. What have you done? Trolled my posts and said how much you hated DRK.

My comments are random...maybe cause i don't post in every topic..

Yea you helped somebody lawl r-i-g-h-t i pitty whoever takes your advise..

What have i done.. Not spam the forums with crap for 1, and even if i did atleast id be an asshole from bahamut and not some cross server noob who wont leave..

Trolled your posts.. are you fucking kidding me.. i almost go emo myself having to read your emodrk posts.. Every topic i click i have to see you saying something stupid as always you troll every topic so anybody posting in ANY topic would be a troll in your emo eyes. I pitty you and your server, may you get hit by a bus tomorrow and never come back to a forum where everybody wants you gone anyway..

PS: Hate drk.. nope don't hate drg either.. doesn't mean they aren't gimp jobs..Well unlike you im not slow I lvled drk to 75 and knew how gimp the job was a week after i dinged...

Please can anybody name a DD worse than drk?(Obviously drg don't count, never has never will.)

[Anyway]

I really don't wanna answer that Oni because whatever I say will spark a whole new argument. Buuuuuut whatever... THF is 9/10 times worse if it's not somewhere like Lufaise.