patch note = new exploit?

[Lockecole]

Uhhhh, I doubt it. Theyre stupid... but not stupid enough to overlook something that obvious.

[edit] Found it in the patchnotes, did you look at the pictures underneath? Its a completely different situation that they are refering to. I sleepga darters, you shoot a ranged attack that misses at one. The mob is still yellow, and will remain yellow until you take enough action until it actually turns for you.. in which case you take the claim. Thereby making me unable to be attacked by a monster that I cannot take action upon.

DING DING! WE HAVE A WINNER.

I don't know what the hell you guys were getting from that explanation. WHMs outside of alliance not being able to pull hate? wtf.

[SephYuyX]

Ill explain the new MPK patch the same way ive explained it everywhere else. Its really not that hard to understand.

Ok. So an AoE is used from person A, and a mob accedently gets hit, it will attack person A as normal and still be white. Now, say a puller comes along, person B, and tries to grab that mob with an arrow. Now usually the mob will turn purple to person A and contniue to beat on him, making person A helpless since its purple.

But now, if person B doesnt pull enough hate on the mob to make him turn, the mob will remain white, untill either person A claims or person B gets enough hate off of person A.


Now.

In events such as HNM, we all know sometimes it goes white, and someone can easily just voke it and it will go red to the voker. Not anymore. Unless the voker gets the mob while its @99%, theyll have a hell of a time trying to get the hate to him.

So if a mob goes white for a second, an outside PT/Person/Alliance will not get claim. The white mob will still be claimed by the original person/pt/alliance.

Not to say a PLD can Voke+Invincible and try to get hate however.

But really, all this patch is doing, is ensuring less MPK (IE: no purple mobs attacking a person) and less stealing, (IE: a red mob going white for a split second)

This will help a lot of BST solo hard mobs, as mobs tend to go white after getting a new pet.

[FFXIFlux]

Ok. So an AoE is used from person A, and a mob accedently gets hit, it will attack person A as normal and still be white. Now, say a puller comes along, person B, and tries to grab that mob with an arrow. Now usually the mob will turn purple to person A and contniue to beat on him, making person A helpless since its purple.

But now, if person B doesnt pull enough hate on the mob to make him turn, the mob will remain white, untill either person A claims or person B gets enough hate off of person A.

But really, all this patch is doing, is ensuring less MPK (IE: no purple mobs attacking a person) and less stealing, (IE: a red mob going white for a split second)

Mmm...? Except that once the puller in your example gets enough hate to turn the mob the mob will take a swing, knock off a shadow and of course turn right back around and start beating on person A again. Now what, does the mob turn gold again? If thats the case then it will allow unlimited amounts of people to beat on mobs by paladins tanking by voking, then draw weapon, then sheathe weapon and target another mob to give up claim and let everyone else in the zone beat on the mob. Repeat once flash/provoke are back up.

[Celeras]

Mmm...? Except that once the puller in your example gets enough hate to turn the mob the mob will take a swing, knock off a shadow and of course turn right back around and start beating on person A again. Now what, does the mob turn gold again? If thats the case then it will allow unlimited amounts of people to beat on mobs by paladins tanking by voking, then draw weapon, then sheathe weapon and target another mob to give up claim and let everyone else in the zone beat on the mob. Repeat once flash/provoke are back up.

Uhhhhh right. You can do that now... what would be the point?

[Aodh]

Here's a thought, and maybe I'm not reading it right or maybe they worked in special conditions... But it seems that only the person/party/alliance with the most emnity can claim a mob.

Ideal Scenerio:
LS A has King Behemoth claimed and kited. LS B is trying to steal. KB goes yellow, LB B provokes and provoke has no effect and no claim registered.

Yea for LS B not stealing KB.


Possible Scenerio:
LS A has King Behemoth claimed and kited. WHMs for LS A are outside healing and they get emnity from healing. Now an untagged KB is chasing them, and since they have the most hate, would all the main alliance attacks register no effect and no claim and therefore main alliance could not provoke or nuke?

[Mysterio]

from the looks of it this should theoretically eliminate the majority of claim stealing that occurs when the HNM turns yellow, even though the main alliance still has all the hate.

[SephYuyX]

Possible Scenerio:
LS A has King Behemoth claimed and kited. WHMs for LS A are outside healing and they get emnity from healing. Now an untagged KB is chasing them, and since they have the most hate, would all the main alliance attacks register no effect and no claim and therefore main alliance could not provoke or nuke?

This patch will not make it an enmity contest. If on alliance has it, and somehow another rival allaince gets enough hate to turn the mob, the mob wont switch claims, it will have to go white first. In that scenerio, what happens previous to this patch, will still apply.

If the mob is red, outsiders cant force it white, unless it goes white from something the claimed pt does. If it does go white from say, the alliance dieing, and the outside WHMs have hate, someone will have to have greater hate to pull it away from the WHM making it clamable from someone else.

The WHMs will be chased by a purple KB yes, but it wont go white. This doesnt happen now right? If random healers get hate, the mob will just turn to them, but the claim will still remain to the originators allowing them to still hit it.

[Aodh]

Possible Scenerio:
LS A has King Behemoth claimed and kited. WHMs for LS A are outside healing and they get emnity from healing. Now an untagged KB is chasing them, and since they have the most hate, would all the main alliance attacks register no effect and no claim and therefore main alliance could not provoke or nuke?

This patch will not make it an enmity contest. If on alliance has it, and somehow another rival allaince gets enough hate to turn the mob, the mob wont switch claims, it will have to go white first. In that scenerio, what happens previous to this patch, will still apply.

If the mob is red, outsiders cant force it white, unless it goes white from something the claimed pt does. If it does go white from say, the alliance dieing, and the outside WHMs have hate, someone will have to have greater hate to pull it away from the WHM making it clamable from someone else.

The WHMs will be chased by a purple KB yes, but it wont go white. This doesnt happen now right? If random healers get hate, the mob will just turn to them, but the claim will still remain to the originators allowing them to still hit it.

I'm talking about if it's chasing the WHMs and is unclaimed at the time. If you can only claim while you have the most emnity would the main alliance not be able to reclaim and resume damage until that WHM is dead and the main alliance once again has the most emnity?

[Khamsin]

Ok. So an AoE is used from person A, and a mob accedently gets hit, it will attack person A as normal and still be white. Now, say a puller comes along, person B, and tries to grab that mob with an arrow. Now usually the mob will turn purple to person A and contniue to beat on him, making person A helpless since its purple.

But now, if person B doesnt pull enough hate on the mob to make him turn, the mob will remain white, untill either person A claims or person B gets enough hate off of person A.

But really, all this patch is doing, is ensuring less MPK (IE: no purple mobs attacking a person) and less stealing, (IE: a red mob going white for a split second)

Mmm...? Except that once the puller in your example gets enough hate to turn the mob the mob will take a swing, knock off a shadow and of course turn right back around and start beating on person A again. Now what, does the mob turn gold again? If thats the case then it will allow unlimited amounts of people to beat on mobs by paladins tanking by voking, then draw weapon, then sheathe weapon and target another mob to give up claim and let everyone else in the zone beat on the mob. Repeat once flash/provoke are back up.

Read it again. It won't be beating up on person A anymore because...

...players will no longer be attacked by monsters that they themselves are unable to attack.

[SephYuyX]

Possible Scenerio:
LS A has King Behemoth claimed and kited. WHMs for LS A are outside healing and they get emnity from healing. Now an untagged KB is chasing them, and since they have the most hate, would all the main alliance attacks register no effect and no claim and therefore main alliance could not provoke or nuke?

This patch will not make it an enmity contest. If on alliance has it, and somehow another rival allaince gets enough hate to turn the mob, the mob wont switch claims, it will have to go white first. In that scenerio, what happens previous to this patch, will still apply.

If the mob is red, outsiders cant force it white, unless it goes white from something the claimed pt does. If it does go white from say, the alliance dieing, and the outside WHMs have hate, someone will have to have greater hate to pull it away from the WHM making it clamable from someone else.

The WHMs will be chased by a purple KB yes, but it wont go white. This doesnt happen now right? If random healers get hate, the mob will just turn to them, but the claim will still remain to the originators allowing them to still hit it.

I'm talking about if it's chasing the WHMs and is unclaimed at the time. If you can only claim while you have the most emnity would the main alliance not be able to reclaim and resume damage until that WHM is dead and the main alliance once again has the most emnity?

If the mob turns white from the main alliance fucking up, correct, as long as that WHM has hate, no one but the WHM can claim or do dmg to it. As soon as the original gets more hate than the WHM, its back to normal.

Consider it in an XP situation, a WHM overnukes a cure, and goes after the WHM, usually a simple voke from the tank can get it back, sort of the same concept with this.

[Kuropiko]

...players will no longer be attacked by monsters that they themselves are unable to attack.

I think the main question here is to know if that statement will allow outside WHMs to spam cures on the main alliance with the mob not being able to hit them.

[kareface]

If the mob turns white from the main alliance fucking up, correct, as long as that WHM has hate, no one but the WHM can claim or do dmg to it. As soon as the original gets more hate than the WHM, its back to normal.

Consider it in an XP situation, a WHM overnukes a cure, and goes after the WHM, usually a simple voke from the tank can get it back, sort of the same concept with this.

Sorry, I didn't read anything about not being able to deal damage while its white. I might of missed that.

We know how this works, LSa is fighting behe and it goes white, if someone else vokes it at that point they would only get claim if the mob aggroed them from the voke.

You can't make it go white using hate totals.

What people want to know is, if someone is about to wipe to behe, is it better to try and generate hate before it dies via curing the members that have claim so when it goes white a pld or something might be able to get claim before anyone else because he would have a higher hate total before hand.

Why not test it out. 3 ppl, one claims a vt mob, and build hate while the second person, a pld cures from outside the party. Have the person that claimed it zone out, then see if the 3rd person (not the pld and in a diffrent party from the first 2) can claim with a peble or something. If it won't turn red, it's because the pld has a higher hate total, then we know the answer. So maybe helping an LS thats about to die to a mob is the best way to assure claim.

If someone tests that out I'd like to hear. Its too late for me to test.

[TheLegendaryCravy]

i tested the unable to claim if you cant generate enough hate. basically if you dont have enough hate the mob just stays white until the original person trys to claim it back. but for example when a bst voked the mob twice and kept pet on it then released and recharmed causing to go unclaimed i was able to voke it and hold it white while the bst had kind of a "hate" war against me as ninja. i won after 4 hits from my katanas and stole exp mob. im sure this patch will help on KB but on normal mobs or bsts fighting nms i dont know

[loial]

Sounds to me that this "KB stealing case" when the WHM gets hate from curing... if the mob goes unclaimed and is still targetting said WHM in outside alliance, if that WHM were to then cast Paralyze, Flash, etc, then KB would be claimed by the outside alliance. The WHM would have more hate than the PLD in the main alliance and would only need to take a hostile action on it to claim.

At least, that's how I read it.

So, let's say you got this "outside alliance" setup for something like Tiamat. Naturally, the tanks don't have blockaid on. A different LS comes by, and the PLD starts spamming Cure III, Cure IV on the MT of the LS with claim. Then he uses Warcry, Rampart, etc. He then "pulls hate." Mob goes unclaimed and is attacking outside PLD from the other LS. Outside PLD is #1 on the hate list. He uses voke/flash and steals.

I certainly hope that I'm wrong... but that's what it sounds like ; ;

[Maxxthepenguin]

Sounds to me that this "KB stealing case" when the WHM gets hate from curing... if the mob goes unclaimed and is still targetting said WHM in outside alliance, if that WHM were to then cast Paralyze, Flash, etc, then KB would be claimed by the outside alliance. The WHM would have more hate than the PLD in the main alliance and would only need to take a hostile action on it to claim.

At least, that's how I read it.

So, let's say you got this "outside alliance" setup for something like Tiamat. Naturally, the tanks don't have blockaid on. A different LS comes by, and the PLD starts spamming Cure III, Cure IV on the MT of the LS with claim. Then he uses Warcry, Rampart, etc. He then "pulls hate." Mob goes unclaimed and is attacking outside PLD from the other LS. Outside PLD is #1 on the hate list. He uses voke/flash and steals.

I certainly hope that I'm wrong... but that's what it sounds like ; ;

/blockaid wasn't removed... and theres no fight you need more healing than the alliance can provide.